Sticker shock

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Elizabeth

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Sticker shock
« on: 7 May 2011, 01:25 am »
Sticker shock! New Bryston Bp-26 (gulp!) $5,000.
Was at my dealer to just stop by etc. and went to see if the new Magnepan 3.7 was up. (he was with a customer) So I head on up to the room with the Bryston and Maggies.. Not new 3.7 but i look at the sticker on the BP-26 and am stunned: $5,000.
Wow. That is (of course) with the power supply, and the remote. But i am like struck dumb.
Lucky i bought before the last Spring price increase, and due to a mixup on my dealer's part, he threw in the remote free. Apparently he quoted me the price assuming the remote was still included, suprise for him (and me) when no remote came with the preamp. So he apologized by giving me a remote free.
glad I have my BP-26 already!

drummermitchell

Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #1 on: 7 May 2011, 02:10 am »
I never pay sticker price.If I can't nogotiate I buy from another store or the net.
The sticker price is for people that don't haggle or don't know that it is marked WAY UP.
I'm sure 20% is a bonus for the sales guy.
They seem to get pissed off if you come to the store on their day off and you order from his coworker.
I have seen some off those stickers and I think to myself,that I use to be one of those type of not knowing.

*Scotty*

Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #2 on: 7 May 2011, 04:32 am »
I don't think it hurts to ask in a diplomatic fashion if there any discounts available on gear you want.
The key here is not to be demanding, like they owe you a discount. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
There seems to be a universal dislike of the "grinder".
Scotty

geowak

Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #3 on: 7 May 2011, 07:01 am »
Isn't all the audio you see here and elsewhere priced FAR TOO HIGH?

I mean the stuff that is in the Audio Rags is audio I could only afford to buy if I won the multi-state lottery or my unknown rich Uncle Wilbur died and left me his fortune. Even then my wife would tell me IT"S STILL NOT WORTH THE PRICE!

MBL, BRYSTON, WILSON, B&W, AR, MERIDIAN, KRELL, REVEL, CARY, CONRAD JOHNSON, VANDERSTEEN, THETA, LUXMAN, BAT and the list goes on and on.

It is all over priced IMHO.

My curse...

john1970

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #4 on: 7 May 2011, 10:31 am »
This is a good reason to purchase used or demo equipment.  The great thing about Bryston is that the product warranty is transferable when purchased used.  I own several pieces of Bryston equipment and there is a 50/50 mix of new and used equipment.

John

James Tanner

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #5 on: 7 May 2011, 10:47 am »
Yes I think a lot of performance driven companies suffer from the perception that someone is being ripped off. Sadly nothing could be further from the truth. Most performance driven companies are involved in this busness out of a passion to push the performance envelope and simply price their products as fairly as they can to keep the doors open.

I agree though that perception could ultimately distroy high end audio as we know it and we all get relegated to mediocracy -- oh to be an oil company :thumb:

James


alexone

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #6 on: 7 May 2011, 11:17 am »
...yes, the price increases of the last 5 years are not nice :nono:. just one example: the five channel 9B SST was around 5.500 Euros- now it is at about 7.700 Euros :bawl:.

al.

James Tanner

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #7 on: 7 May 2011, 11:48 am »
...yes, the price increases of the last 5 years are not nice :nono:. just one example: the five channel 9B SST was around 5.500 Euros- now it is at about 7.700 Euros :bawl:.

al.

Hi Al

I agree it has not been nice but the prices are what they are out of the economics of manufacturing and development cost. No one (at least at Bryston) is ripping anyone off. Currency value fluctuations (especially the US dollar), transportation costs, parts cost, etc are increasing exponentially.

James

mclsound

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #8 on: 7 May 2011, 11:49 am »
Things go up!                      BUT
How far is the odd sighn of greed.
I have a Inner Ear magazine with the original 28bsst(non squared)review and also was Simaudio Preamp-P-8/CD/ Amp-W-8 and each worth $11,000 =$33,000
Remember that copy James :)
Now the new Simaudio is $66,000 and that is for a preamp($22,000) and the 800 monoblocks($44,000)
Now I would be sick to my stomack if I bought the Evolution series new and wanted to upgrade and the only upgrade was going to be $66,000.

So Brystons price increase is well.....Fair I would say

James Tanner

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #9 on: 7 May 2011, 11:58 am »
Things go up!                      BUT
How far is the odd sighn of greed.
I have a Inner Ear magazine with the original 28bsst(non squared)review and also was Simaudio Preamp-P-8/CD/ Amp-W-8 and each worth $11,000 =$33,000
Remember that copy James :)
Now the new Simaudio is $66,000 and that is for a preamp($22,000) and the 800 monoblocks($44,000)
Now I would be sick to my stomack if I bought the Evolution series new and wanted to upgrade and the only upgrade was going to be $66,000.

So Brystons price increase is well.....Fair I would say

Hi John

I guess I should not speak for other companies so point taken - but if a company is not able to be competitive within their performance envelope with other like companies then I think they would eventually disappear from the landscape.

That is certainly the choice each individual customer must make.

James

PS - you can spend more money than a Bryston but if LINEARITY is the goal there is no better :thumb:

Phil A

Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #10 on: 7 May 2011, 01:04 pm »
For us in the US it is also a matter of the Canadian vs. US Dollar - for example:


January 2005 – average 1.22484

January 2011 – average 0.993845



James Tanner

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #11 on: 7 May 2011, 02:46 pm »
From: David
Sent: May-07-11 9:36 AM
To: James Tanner
Cc: Chris Russell
Subject: Class of Its Own
 
Hi James:
 
I read the thread about high-priced audio equipment on today’s AudioCircle and can’t help noting that it all missed Bryston’s greatest merit – performance equal to the best anywhere at a fraction of the price of other high-end products. All the other brands mentioned in the thread simply don’t produce the same price/performance of Bryston.
 
Someone should do a simple chart. Take each of your products and chart them against comparable products from Krell, MBL, Classe etc. etc., and I bet you’re going to see a dramatic difference product-for-product.
 
Sure, Bryston costs more than mid-level products, but that’s true of every kind of product. With Bryston you get true high end quality and performance  - as well as the cache of the name of a high end brand – at a much lower price, not to mention the best warranty and service in the business.
 
The reality is that there are two kinds of companies (setting aside the smallest and least known ones)  in the high end audio business – the esoteric ones and Bryston.  In the first, you get a name and incredibly high prices. In the second, you get a name and fair prices.
 
After buying Bryston products for something something like 30 years, I’m completely convinced that it is in a class of its own – the best high end equipment at prices far below those of its high end competitors.
 
David

rmurray

Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #12 on: 7 May 2011, 03:27 pm »
So what is the current man sug price on the BP 26?  :scratch:

James Tanner

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #13 on: 7 May 2011, 04:04 pm »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As of June 1st 2011:

BP-26 Preamplifier  $2,995.00 USA List

MPS-2 Power Supply $1,695.00 USA List

Currently about 8% cheaper.

james

rollo

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #14 on: 7 May 2011, 04:18 pm »
Hi Al

I agree it has not been nice but the prices are what they are out of the economics of manufacturing and development cost. No one (at least at Bryston) is ripping anyone off. Currency value fluctuations (especially the US dollar), transportation costs, parts cost, etc are increasing exponentially.

James


Could not agree more. The US dollar has shrunk. The dollar just is NOT a dollar any longer. Parts costs increase due to Silver, copper and Gold prices. Shipping sir charges for transport as well.
   Pricing to high ? Hmmmmm. $2995 for a Preamp and $20,000 for Tara Omega cables. enough said.

  For those who think Bryston is expensive, in your world maybe but not everyones. Hey I want a Ferrari but in reality not happeming. Some can some cannot, that's life.

charles

Elizabeth

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #15 on: 7 May 2011, 04:41 pm »
Add in the remote $375. and the total for the BP-26, power supply and remote is US $5,065.
I was more  in the 'wow over five grand' shock, than complaining.
I like my Bryston.  :thumb:
And yes the cost of manufacturing is skyrocketing. Raw materials are really going up faster than anything. Just like Gasoline!
Though a few companies seem to take advantage of favorable reviews to double their prices! (not Bryston)

niels

Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #16 on: 7 May 2011, 07:48 pm »
In Norway, a new B-100, without remote, is listed at US $ 7300,- US $.
I had mine for 5 years, and never had one single moment thinking about a change.

Diamond Dog

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #17 on: 7 May 2011, 08:05 pm »
  I think that a lot of audiophiles lose their sense of perspective on the issue of what this kind of gear costs and why, let alone the typical consumer who purchases their home entertainment equipment at a big-box - they ain't nevah going to get their heads wrapped around what we willingly pay for audio...The word "willingly" does play a roll here. Even used, a lot of decent audio gear is not what most (more rational ?) people would consider to be inexpensive or even good value for that matter. The audiophile community on the other hand will willingly lay down that kind of money for this stuff because in our minds, the value-for-money proposition is reconcilable. Its a question of priorities. That being said, even within our own community, we have different tolerance levels where the value-for money proposition stops making sense. Speaking for myself, I have what many would consider to be an absolutely stupid amount of money invested in audio and my expenditures pale in comparison to what many of you have spent or could conceivably spend on this stuff if you had a mind to and/or the wherewithal ( or credit limit  :nono:) to do so. I am not a major gearhead so as I approach the completion of my system rebuild, to my mind I've built a system which is sufficient for my needs and this will be where I get off the bus for some time to come. I have reached a point where, for myself, I would have trouble justifying investing much more money into this in terms of what I would get back in return for the investment. For others, that point is further off or may never arrive. So be it. That's your lookout - enjoy the ride ! :D
  Having attempted to establish some sort of context, here are the observations I originally set out to offer, for what they're worth:

1) In terms of "sticker shock" regarding this level of audio gear in general: Let's remember that these are total luxury goods although our bias towards great sound makes them seem like a necessity. To us. There is always a premium to be paid for luxury. Your ability to pay that premium is what makes it a luxury in the eyes of others. Can you get from point A to point B in a Chrysler ? Often ( but in my experience, not always ), you can. But if your ride is what you consider to be your priority, you may find yourself lusting after something more in keeping with your priorities. Can you listen to music through a big-box home entertainment system ? Absolutely, but if your priority is an enhanced listening experience, you may find yourself willingly wading into this world...Either way, if you should find your butt in the comfy leather seat of an upscale ride or parked in front of a high-end audio system which you own, remember how your butt got there. You put it there. So no sobbing about what it cost - you could have had the Chrysler ( shudder...). As a wise man I know says : " If you find yourself in such a fortunate position, appreciate the luxury..."
  It should be also be considered that none of this stuff is churned out in massive volume, either. The economies of scale do not apply here because mass-production plays no role here ( Thank God ). While my understanding is that Bryston manufactures and sells a fair bit more product than many manufacurers of audio gear, we're still not talking about anything even approaching Matsushita numbers. I bought my 7B SST2's and BCD-1 last year and the serial numbers were all 4 digits long. This isn't Sony here. That lower production volume plays a role in what this stuff costs for a number of reasons.

2) In terms of why that sticker is getting shocking : As has been pointed out, right now, the cost of everything is going up and audio gear is no exception. All those good things like copper, rare earth, petroleum, etc. which go into your BP-26 also go into that increased price tag along with the cost of getting those good things to the factory as well other factors like the cost of shipping it to your favorite audio dealer, the cost of actually running the place where it is built as well as the cost of backing it should you have some unfortunate issue ( and the cost of returning it to you -often in a crisp new box- after all has been made right ). Hopefully the good folks who do all this for you are not working for the same wages/salary that they were working for in 1995, either. And let's not forget to build in the additional costs  driven by the speculation of stock-market parasites who drive up artificially the costs of many of the aforementioned commodities. So those bastards are in the box too when you unpack your new ( or used ) BP-26. Dispose of them in an environmentally conscious fashion, please.

3) In terms of how shocking the sticker on that Bryston is...: Going back to that value-for-money proposition alluded to earlier, having looked at what other brands of gear cost against Bryston, in a bang-for -the buck comparison I'd say IMHO you could do worse. Much worse.And while it is certainly true that prices have gone up recently ( and will probably increase again ), the increases are pretty reasonable in context of what goes on in the audio industry. It's possible to go the other route and try to endlessly absorb increasing costs to keep your pricing down but at some point something's gotta give and you can either dole out a whopping price increase and hope for the best (  :wave: Hello EveAnna Manley ! ) or you can pack up the plantation and head off for that great audio Valhalla like so many of these companies end up doing...
Or you can cut your costs by moving production offshore, up your margins and trade on your established audiophile cred until the end-user goodwill runs out, overwhelmed by quality issues         (  :wave: Hello Arcam ! ).Or I guess you could cheap it up and churn out tinny-looking and -sounding crap , lose the 20-year warranty and flog the stuff at Best Buy as best you can. Whore up the legacy and grab for all you can get for as long as it lasts. Or Hell, why not just sell the whole shootin' match off to some conglomerate , take the money and run ?
Eyyyeeewww.....

 I for one would prefer to have my Bryston gear designed and built here by the conscientious and skilled people who have done such a great job up to this point in establishing an enviable reputation for quality. Is it expensive? Yep. But more to the point, is it still good value for money ? Affirmative. In audiophile terms at least... :D
James : Don't ever change. :thumb: And don't go postin' no pictures of your new Ferrari after all this! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

D.D.

Full Disclosure: Diamond Dog has owned a Chrysler and is still traumatized by the experience. He has never owned a BP-26 but hears that they're actually pretty good so he's not ruling it out at some point. He checks the "Picture Food Needed" thread in the Bryston Circle regularly for any photos of James Tanner driving a Ferrari. And he does not consider himself to be much of an audiophile but does try to appreciate the luxury of owning good audio equipment...   :wink:

vegasdave

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #18 on: 7 May 2011, 08:20 pm »
I agree with James, Bryston is pretty fairly priced when compared to the competition. Or would you like them to move production to China and/or Mexico like Harman International. And if you can't swing the BP26, get the BP6! There's only a subtle difference (in favor of the BP26) to my ears!

Elizabeth

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #19 on: 8 May 2011, 12:27 am »
Yeah, value for money.
I retired last year in January, and had a nice bonus. The Bonus is how i paid for my Bryston gear. My closest friend, thought i was completey insane to waste the money on stereo equipment when i already HAD really good stereo equipment.
It did not matter to her that i spend all day every day (now) listening to music.
And when i asked here about her buying a NEW car, when her old one was fine.. wow did I get a verbal thrashing. (plus TONS if excuses...)
So we pick our poison. Lucky for me mine is music.
« Last Edit: 8 May 2011, 06:49 am by Elizabeth »