[robinje]

I have an AVA DAC and Ultra 350+ double die power amp. I need a new preamplifier. It seems a logical decision to get an AVA preamp. But, I want to keep an open mind. I think either the T8 or Insight would be fine, but Conrad Johnson has the 'Classic' tube pre that seems nice and is also reasonably priced. Anybody here have experience with them?  The company appears to strive for a high level of customer service, just like AVA does.

[jtwrace]

But, I want to keep an open mind.

If you want to keep an open mind, I suggest you post your question NOT in the AVA circle. 

[festuss]

  Where are those CJ's made, stick with AVA, better stuff for less, and made right here. When you found the great stuff, why would you change?  What is this "open mind" thing?  Isn't a made up mind one that is clear on the facts, less fatiguing?  An "open mind" is probably drafty.

[Wayner]

Yeah, those AVA guys are really closed minded, especially in their own circle.

The T8 is nice if your looking for all tube.

 

Otherwise, more models to choose from here: http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72&Itemid=226

 

[JerryM]

jtwrace has a point; there's a whole bunch of preamps out there. However, when I bought my setup, I was looking for "assured synergy". AVA delivered in spades.

I love CJ preamps, and have had the pleasure of listening to a couple of them here. I want one.

The problem is that the one I want requires a whole 'nother zero to be added to the price.

I love T8+ preamps. I have one. 

Give one a try; they play some damned pretty music.

Have fun,

Jerry

[trebejo]

Honestly, I've stopped looking around. I tried this and that, but Frank's stuff more or less inevitably made sense.

If I ever have $10k to blow on a preamp... I'd buy tickets to the symphony. Lots of 'em.

I used to think that Frank's stuff was good but since this is a big planet there's bound to be better stuff somewhere. I'm not sure I think that anymore--specially since I suspect that Frank keeps a designer from Andromeda hidden somewhere--but life requires many other things for our attention and where would the big improvement be? $1/hour labor? Magic caps? Fantabulous power cords?

The formula is so simple: great engineering, honesty, no greed. AVA may not be the only company that holds to it, but capitalism certainly discourages it so if I find one then that is one more than what I expected.

That genius that suggested that you ask elsewhere must know a lot more than the rest of us combined, but I must admit that I see little reason to spend money elsewhere once you've started here. My experiments, as few and poorly budgeted as they were, had very clear and straightforward results. You probably know exactly what I mean.

Oh look, someone is selling a T8 used, can't say that's an option everyday... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=92726.0

Recently when I got an Avastar from AVA, I looked under the hood and the construction is magnificent. The main board looks like something you can use to hammer some nails if needed. Thick and solid.  One thing I would suggest is a good long look at the phase inverter option. It is a fun little feature and darn it if it doesn't make the noise floor go even further away.

But look, buy the other one... use it for a while... then buy a T8 (you know you will)... compare them... sell the one you like less... you know the algorithm. Or try it the other way: buy the T8, use it for a while, then once you're used to it buy something else and see what happens.

Yours is a good problem to have, since you can be sure that you'll get a good preamp either way.

[Tone Depth]

I bought a Dynaco PAT-5 preamp in 1975.  I went through several upgrade cycles via Jensens, and then AVA, each time upgrading into new circuits made much more sense than buying an alternative preamp (I did check my alternatives), and finally traded it in to AVA in 2000.  I replaced it with an AVA Omega III EC preamp in the new at the time chassis, and subsequently upgraded it to Insight+ in 2009.  In my experience, nothing has ever come close for the money, over all those past years.

Good luck with your search.

[festuss]

Besides sonic superiority, at mortal prices, it has superb reliability.  All the AVA's I've had and used, there has NEVER been a failure.  Been quite a few years, from my first AVA kit PAT-5 rebuild and into the current Ultra EC pre amps Ultra DAC, Ultra Phase inverters and several P500 Hafler OmegaStar eX  and Insight Double Halfer P500 monsters!  There also has NEVER been a first time listener to the stuff that hasn't had the jaw drop upon listening.  The apprx 5200W of AVA sonic bliss AVA, why would you use anything else?  Maybe those better sounding 1/4" thick front panels, or see through tube "warmth" viewing ports, or better sounding replaceable power line sockets. Stick to proper mortal design/engineering, and not marketing hyped BS that adds about 75% to the price.  And why did Conrad get to put his name in front, is Johnson not worthy of being first?

[srb]

And why did Conrad get to put his name in front, is Johnson not worthy of being first?

Why remove credibility from anything you've previously said with a totally nonsensical statement?
 
conrad-johnson has produced some well-designed components as have other component manufacturers.  I understand that this is an Audio by Van Alstine circle, but competitor bashing or refusal to acknowledge any other possible component choices does not necessarily further the cause of this fine American brand.
 
"AVA, why would you use anything else?"  I could think of several reasons why I or others might decide to choose another brand of preamplifier, but it's a personal choice, and I would rather respect that.
 
Steve

[guest1632]

I have an AVA DAC and Ultra 350+ double die power amp. I need a new preamplifier. It seems a logical decision to get an AVA preamp. But, I want to keep an open mind. I think either the T8 or Insight would be fine, but Conrad Johnson has the 'Classic' tube pre that seems nice and is also reasonably priced. Anybody here have experience with them?  The company appears to strive for a high level of customer service, just like AVA does.

Hi Robinje,

First, I don't own any AVA gear yet. But! I think before you decide on another preamp, you might want to consider this. Since you already own AVA gear, just get either the insight, The T8, or the FET Valve. i've heard it said, putting a good tube preamp in front of an SS amp, can really make them sing.

Now, Folks, I know this is the AVA circle. We are all here to promote AVA gear. However, discussing in general ways about someone else's product as comparing it to AVA products should be encouraged. So Robinje, what is it about CJ that interests you. There are other vendors of tube gear on this circle, that seriously I would probably support before I'd look at CJ. Nothing against CJ or anything like that.

one thing I have noticed about Frank's gear, ... a lot of manufacturers like CJ build there stuff to a price point. AVA on the other hand seems to build his stuff towards a value point. Look at some of the reviews on the AVA gear. Usually, two or three times the sound worth That in itself is something to consider. Frank's gear is not in to gliss and glammer, just excellent sound for your hard earned money spent.

 I would suggest Robinje you get a T8, try it out for under 30 days, and then if you don't like it send it back for the full refund. Then you could get the Cj or one of the other vendors preamps on this circle, and try them out.

Your question while a valid one, might get more positive  results in the starter circle. 

Ray Bronk

[martyo]

I have an AVA DAC and Ultra 350+ double die power amp. I need a new preamplifier. It seems a logical decision to get an AVA preamp. But, I want to keep an open mind. I think either the T8 or Insight would be fine, but Conrad Johnson has the 'Classic' tube pre that seems nice and is also reasonably priced. Anybody here have experience with them?  The company appears to strive for a high level of customer service, just like AVA does.

Our "big" set is all AVA. Check my systems page. I have the first "Double" 550 and am running a T8. I like our set. I personally like Frank a lot and his customer service has always been excellent. I haven't really listened to that much other gear. I generally don't spend time with any kind of "stuff" that is out of our budget. But I have personally compared Spectron, Bryston, and Del Canto amps to our 550, and I easily preferred the 550. Those other amps were 2-3 times the price. I also had a chance to demo a Manley Jumbo Shrimp pre in our set. Killer mid-range, but in the highs and lows it wasn't even close to the T8. It was twice the price. "Champagne on a beer budget" is a phrase TAS recently used describing AVA gear.

Ray and  jtwrace make good points. This circle can be very disrespectful and there IS a dogma.  

[guest1632]

Our "big" set is all AVA. Check my systems page. I have the first "Double" 550 and am running a T8. I like our set. I personally like Frank a lot and his customer service has always been excellent. I haven't really listened to that much other gear. I generally don't spend time with any kind of "stuff" that is out of our budget. But I have personally compared Spectron, Bryston, and Del Canto amps to our 550, and I easily preferred the 550. Those other amps were 2-3 times the price. I also had a chance to demo a Manley Jumbo Shrimp pre in our set. Killer mid-range, but in the highs and lows it wasn't even close to the T8. It was twice the price. "Champagne on a beer budget" is a phrase TAS recently used describing AVA gear.

Ray and  jtwrace make good points. This circle can be very disrespectful and there IS a dogma.

Hmmm, well now, maybe, I should put that T8 on my short list. I am kinda shopping for a preamp. I already have an amp, so just need a good preamp. The SS Insight that I read the review was good, but I'm looking personally for something that doesn't have any buts in it. This preamp is good and yada yada yada, but! It is lacking compared to this or that brand.

So when Robinje asked about a new preamp, I figured I would add my two cents in to this thread.

Ray Bronk

[Kinger]

I think keeping an open mind is a great thing.  Only way you'll be able to tell if what you are purchasing is really what you want and sounds the best to you.  With CJ's being available on the used market (I'm assuming) you could always try one out in your system and if you don't care for it or the synergy between it and the rest of your gear you could probably sell it for what you paid for it.  Frank's gear (especially T8's) seem to be MUCH harder to find used, but with Frank's return policy you could try one out for 30 days and return it if you are not satisfied for only the cost of shipping.  Yeah, not completely free, but not a bad cost when you consider the overall cost of a new pre-amp.

I was in the same boat a few weeks back and was going back and forth between a T8 and some other pre's on the market.  Couple of things made me go with the T8 in the end.  For one, I already had an AVA240 amp so I thought getting an AVA pre made sense as far as system synergy.  Second, when it came to value for the money the T8 was way up there and I liked the fact that I could purchase the unit ala cart so to speak. (With or without phono, with or without remote, with or without HT bypass for example.)  Third, the T8 included a headphone amp which not many other tube pre amps did.  Fourth, I thought the fact that T8's rarely show up used hopefully meant that owners were so happy with them that they held onto them for a good long period of time.

In the end I'm happy with MY decision and am shocked at how much better my system sounds with the T8 over my former preamp.  Hope you find the same satisfaction with whatever you purchase.

[Wally King]

As a recent buyer of a T8+, I'll add my 2 cents worth:  just buy one, and I'm confident you'll be as happy as a pig in ... whatever makes pigs happy.

I'm using the stock tubes, and see no need to start experimenting with NOS yet, though I'm sure I will eventually.  For now, however, I have no complaints. The T8+ replaced a VTL 2.5, and the T8+ is more dynamic, more "alive," with no less of the smooth refinement that I enjoyed in the VTL.

The T8+ is the 3rd piece of AVA equipment I've purchased;  I don't think about them at all: they just do their job effortlessly and perfectly.  And, given the fact that in the last year I've paid $800 to repair two other pieces of equipment (not AVA), I'm most appreciative of the reliability of Frank's products.

[clipped]

I have an AVA DAC and Ultra 350+ double die power amp. I need a new preamplifier. It seems a logical decision to get an AVA preamp. But, I want to keep an open mind. I think either the T8 or Insight would be fine, but Conrad Johnson has the 'Classic' tube pre that seems nice and is also reasonably priced. Anybody here have experience with them?  The company appears to strive for a high level of customer service, just like AVA does.

I have an Ultra pre in small chassis sitting in my closet since upgrading to Frank's top of the line Pre a couple of months back. I am not looking for big dollars for it, if you are interested in a bargain please let me know.
Regards and best of luck in your search.

[Minn Mark]

Clipped,
Please PM me your asking price and does the Ultra have phono ??
Thnaks,

Minn Mark

[woodsyi]

As a recent buyer of a T8+, I'll add my 2 cents worth:  just buy one, and I'm confident you'll be as happy as a pig in ... whatever makes pigs happy.

We can't make inductive statement with certainty especially when we have different persons observing.  The best we can do is to state what we hear for ourselves.  If someone can correlate their hearing with ours, then that person can infer the likelihood of getting the same result.  We can't make that call for them.  I, for myself, do my best to listen for myself even if I get favorable input from someone with similar taste. 

[robinje]

Wow, I never expected such an enthusiastic response. I think another AVA product (like a T8) would work superbly in my system. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned another brand in my original post. Like I said, I'm just trying to keep my mind open to all alternatives. There don't seem many that can compete on a quality versus cost basis. Even the cj Classic preamp is roughly $1500 street price in it's most basic configuration (no phono), which is REALLY basic. I could get a T8 with phono at that price range.

[guest1632]

Wow, I never expected such an enthusiastic response. I think another AVA product (like a T8) would work superbly in my system. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned another brand in my original post. Like I said, I'm just trying to keep my mind open to all alternatives. There don't seem many that can compete on a quality versus cost basis. Even the cj Classic preamp is roughly $1500 street price in it's most basic configuration (no phono), which is REALLY basic. I could get a T8 with phono at that price range.

There you go, now you are using your head. I'd probably get the T8 with phono. That way, you are at least covered. if you have a Moving Coil Cartridge, you can get a step up device that will take care of that problem. But then, one problem at a time. First get a Preamp.

One thing that I like about Frank's stuff is the regulation that he uses in his power supplies. He uses a lot of regulation to make sure the signal is clean. The 6CG7 that is used is the counterpart of the 6SN7 which is the octal version. Frank's got it covered. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Ray Bronk

[rcag_ils]

I've always looked up to Frank's gear.

But it'd be interesting to know what makes Franks a few steps above the others, circuitrywise. Do CJ use regulation in their power supplier? I am sure some other manufacturers do.