SS that sounds like a SET?

Sam-fi · « **on:** 24 Apr 2011, 05:26 am »

Disregarding the question of why I would want this and taking the assumption that this is possible. And excluding the First Watt stuff.

What are some amps, integrated or other wise, that provide set like liquidity, etc?

Sam

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Apr 2011, 06:28 am »

The more tube like sound amp I listen was an Rega integrated. Looks a great amp to a fullrange, crosoverless speaker as Omega or Visaton B200 etc...
http://www.rega.co.uk/html/mira.htm
A beautiful amp with full body in cast black aluminium.

> Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a cat or dog from the street. On the streets pets live only two years average.

Jon L · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Apr 2011, 08:02 am »

IME, many different SET's sound very different from each other. A more answerable question might be "Which SS amp sounds most like Brand XYZ 2A3 SET?"

Many SS and "digital" amps nowadays can sound quite liquid and smooth, but IMO THE quality that separates the best low-watt SET's is "life" and aliveness, which is much harder to find in SS, especially as you increase wattage.

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Apr 2011, 12:51 pm »

These sort of questions seem to be based on the premise that SET sounds better than solid state. (When's the last time anyone posted, looking for a tube amp that sounded more like a particular solid state amp?)

So if SET sounds better than solid state, then why go with solid state? Purely for practical reasons (no tube maintenance, smaller, use less electricity, more rugged in terms of moving the amp about such as PA applications)?

If none of that really applies, maybe its just the nearly unlimited power that solid state can provide, cost, or the increased bass damping (although some speakers work better with less and tube amps in general nowadays have more damping).

I've struggled for years trying to like SETs, but have never found high efficiency speakers I'm happy with. I've tried chip amps (supposed to have some tube qualities) but have moved onto Channel Island Audio D-100 modded Hypex based digital amps.

How many have been in the same boat?

roscoeiii · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Apr 2011, 04:45 pm »

Excluding the FirstWatt stuff? Why would one want to do that?

Besides F2, F2J & F3 I am out of good suggestions.

Atlplasma · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Apr 2011, 04:54 pm »

I've read that the Naksa amp has a set-like sound. It might be worth investigating.

morganc · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Apr 2011, 05:45 pm »

Pass Labs XA 30.5 or its integrated sibling would be a great choice. And if you want someone to help you match them correctly, Mark at Reno HiFi is a great resource. He will even let you demo the amps in your system and let you exchange until you find what you want. (no affiliation btw).

What speakers and electronics are you using?

rollo · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Apr 2011, 05:46 pm »

Nelson Pass as well as Maplshade use single ended SS output devices in thier designs. Maplshade is most likely cost prohibitive so check out Pass stuff.
Ok then being an SET owner and big fan, not all SETs sound the same. Meaning a 300B, 2A3, 211, 845 and my favorite GM70 tubes have similiar but different presentations. The speaker choiceas well plays a very important part. really low power tubes like th 2A3 and 45 sound best with horns. Dynamic speakers with more than say 94db sensitivity can get away with the others.
Now saying that NO SS device I've heard sounds like a SET, sorry but that is reality. The odd order harmonis distortion is pleasant to the ear and provides that live full sound. One SS devives split the phase it is a chore to resurect the sound. Some do it well most do not.
the SS pieces I would recco for warm cozy sound would be Plinius and Mc Intosh. Rega comes to mind as well. Have fun trying. don't forget te Bryston 28B, costly but a major achievement IMO.

charles

wywires · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Apr 2011, 05:51 pm »

The Pathos Classic One MKII or MKIII comes very close to producing the SET magic with just one pair of MOSFET's per channel. The Pathos is an integrated and uses 2 6922 tubes for the preamp stage. The added benefit is that it is 70 WPC and can drive most speakers with a stable load.

Bacobits...What do you think?

JoshK · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Apr 2011, 04:03 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 24 Apr 2011, 05:46 pm

Now saying that NO SS device I've heard sounds like a SET, sorry but that is reality. The odd order harmonis distortion is pleasant to the ear and provides that live full sound. One SS devives split the phase it is a chore to resurect the sound. Some do it well most do not.

Other way around, you mean even order distortion of SET amps. PP (splitting phase) cancels even and leaves odd prevailing. Still, there are some single ended SS amps, such as the Firstwatt Aleph J, F3, J2, M2. But I don't think that is wholly the reason why SS and Glass state sound different. There are plenty of other factors, including dampening factor, quasi-current source vs voltage source, clipping behaviour, etc.

groovybassist · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Apr 2011, 04:39 pm »

If you can live without a remote, LFD's Zero Integrated (Mk III or Mk IV) might be of interest. Good luck with your search.

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Apr 2011, 06:31 pm »

The SS amp with the most tube like sound I have heard is the ModWright KWA 150. http://www.modwright.com/products/6 I liked it so much that I bought one.

FWIW, several reviewers have made the same assessment. Bob Levi of PFO had this to say:

Quote

I love the excellent Modwright 150 Power Amps every time I hear them. Dan Wright just does not miss no matter what he builds. These 84lb. beauties sound like the finest tube amps with power to spare… and there's not a tube to be seen! With 150 watts into 8ohms and 250 watts into 4 ohms, they are up to any task. I have not heard all solid-state amps, but I have heard many costing three and four times what these do and not sounding one whit better. These would be the solid-state amps I'd buy if I were in the market for a tip top amplifier with both delicate nuances with really big balls, too.

And in his TAS review, Dick Olsher concluded:

Quote

My stance to date can be summarized as follows: No rain, no rainbow; no tubes, no tube magic. In view of the KWA 150, I’m willing to modify my position somewhat. It doesn’t quite fool me into mistaking it for a tube amp. But I can’t believe that I’m listening to a bipolar solid-state amp with suave mids and imaging magic. It’s hard for me to curb my enthusiasm in the presence of a sonic miracle. To my ears, the KWA 150 represents a smashing success, combining the musicality of tubes with the punch, power delivery, and bass reach of transistors. Factor in the performance and looks of this amp relative to its asking price and the result is a fantastic value. Kudos to ModWright for delivering the sonic goodies, while avoiding sticker shock. Buyer beware: Once auditioned, this amp is hard to walk away from.

The KWA 150 is definitely worth a listen IMO.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Apr 2011, 06:44 pm »

If you want tube like SS, consider the Pass Class A amps, or for that matter any of the better Class A designs. Luxman, Accuphase and Clayton come to mind as having that extra warmth/body/tonal richness.

Head and shoulders more tube like sounding than the ModWright....

But also more expensive.

The amps from Burmester, darTZeel and Vitus also have an amazing tonal balance, with all the delicacy of the best tube gear, yet the punch and dynamics of the best solid state, but again even more money.

It is out there though....

tdinut · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Apr 2011, 11:54 pm »

I have to agree about the Burmester gear. I just bought a 911 MK 3 amp and 077 preamp and I can not believe how good it sounds. Very unlike typical solid state. I am very happy with the new gear.

SET Man · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Apr 2011, 12:36 am »

Hey!

Sound exactly like SET? Well, no... I've never heard one.

Yes, all SET amps are different but all seem to share one thing in common... a sense of completeness and sense of flow to the sound.

There is one ss inter-amp that I've heard at one of local AC member that I find very enjoyable with a good sense of musical flow... it was LFD Zero MkIII I think

Did it sound exactly like SET? No. But very good.

Well, if you want a true SET sound than you have to go for the real thing. Of course you will need a right speakers for it too

Take care,
Buddy

JackD201 · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Apr 2011, 02:17 am »

The Valvet A3.5 is very similar in the midrange to the Airtight 211 SET but by comparison, a bigger bottom (+) but recessed highs (-) It's got a very fluid midrange but it's a bit syrupy which I like. 2a3s are quick and nimble so I don't think I would compare it to that. WE 300Bs a little bit but definitely more in line with 845s if I were to choose a particular tube.

Like SET man says, SETs can sound very different from each other even the same power tubes but in different circuits. Heck even in the same circuits using different parts. If it is the SET stereotype however, yeah I'd say the Valvet fits the broader appreciation of what a SET sounds like.

Rustycat · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Apr 2011, 02:37 am »

I would guess you are looking for smoothness of the SET sound. I've found, after pursuing the SET mantra, that a good SS amp can provide the smooth SET sound, while bringing a punch that SETs don't have.
So, my current fav. for a cheap vintage amp is the Sumo The Nine SS amp. It is smooth and detailed while it provides a punch in the lower end that I've never seen a SET produce.
I combine it with a Threshold FET ten e preamp, and feel it meets my needs precisely.
BTW, I don't know a better preamp than the aforementioned.
You can buy both for under $1500 on the web, and you'll have one of the best combos in audiodom.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Apr 2011, 03:49 am »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 24 Apr 2011, 04:45 pm

Excluding the FirstWatt stuff? Why would one want to do that?

Because summer is coming and he is contemplating his air conditioning bill . . . . .

Did I guess right Sam-fi ?

What do we have for the lucky contestant . . . . ?

FWIW, mine don't run too hot, but I suppose the room would be a tad bit cooler on a late July afternoon if they were turned off.

mjosef · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Apr 2011, 04:03 am »

Yeah, I also turn to cooler amplifications during the hottest months... the quest of the OP is like a mythical legend, keep hearing about it but so far no luck.
If someone finds 'it', hope they will share the secret.

I have heard SET Man's SET amps ...and its simply a delicious sound. If he ever gets out of audio I would hope he will let me have first dibs on his amps.
But I won't be holding my breath

Tyson · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Apr 2011, 04:17 am »

If you want SET sound, buy an SET. There is no substitute, sorry.