Tube or solid state?

fredgarvin · « **Reply #60 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 01:38 am »

Hey, if people like their music reproduced "soft" and thick in the middle, what's wrong with that? Except that actual music isn't that way.

Maybe some kind of silk dome coating on the cymbals...

Jay S · « **Reply #61 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 02:01 am »

Dan,

Yes, will try putting some foam behind the wall hanging. Big problem is that I've got a 29" TV between the speakers as well. When I am doing serious listening I cover it up with a quadruple folded-up blanket from, ahem, Northwest Airlines, to reduce the reflections.

As for extending the acoustic panels beyond the speakers, I've got open doorways (leading to bedrooms, not hallways) to either side of the speakers so I figure that counts as a hell of a lot of dampening (?). And, my side walls are further away than my listening position is to the plane of the speakers, so I guess that I am covered in terms of side-wall reflections. My speakers are also toed-in quite a bit.

Thank you for the advice; I'll continue to try to tweak the acoustics of the room.

By the way, about the Hiquphon OW1, I have a pair of Acoustic Reality Avinci 1 bookshelf speakers (OW1 + Scanspeak Revelator woofer). The highs are indeed very sweet and never seem to be fatiguing (well, except, ironically, when I tried them with a brand new unbroken in tube integrated amp!). I've tried them in a few different setups. I have the response graphs of my tweeters and, in spite of the flat response the graph shows, they do seem to reduce HF energy a bit.

Quote from: Dan Banquer

To Jay S. try putting acoustic damping panels behind the rug. thickness helps here to reduce the smear in the lower treble and midrange. As you try more of the things I have suggested I think you will begin to realize that DVV and myself are not lying to you.
Thanks DVV. I didn't know it was possible to tame one of these things. Sounds like better designs from the driver manufacturers are needed. Also speaker designers need to pay more attention here too.
One addtional suggestion for Jay S. Extend the damping material on the side walls to just past the loudspeaker. This will further damp side wall reflections, and clean things up even more. The first arrival time to your ears in a loudspeaker is the most important, The damping of acoustical smearing from rear and sidewall reflections is really crucial. Keep us posted on your progress. I predict you will be confirming what DVV and I have been saying.

eric the red · « **Reply #62 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 02:09 am »

Some recordings of music that I listen to are so bad that softening up the sound a little is a good thing.

JohnR · « **Reply #63 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 02:27 am »

Quote

After looking at many peoples pictures of their stereo set ups I have noticed a near total lack of acoustic room treatment, especially behind the loudspeakers where it is needed most

Hey Dan, how's this? Note that this is a split-level so that behind the monitor is open space, more or less.

Maybe I blew the LEDE thing, here's the back of the room:

On the other stuff... no worries, I'm sorry if I got uptight about it. I've been informed that I might have been a bit over-sensitive... nobody who knows me at all would ever consider *that* to be a possibility

Anyway I just wanted to say thanks for participating, and "we" will try to do the best we can to make AC work for as many people as we can...

Brad · « **Reply #64 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 02:29 am »

Did you make your speaker stands yourself, JohnR?

Marbles · « **Reply #65 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 02:32 am »

Did you steal that sofa from a whorehouse

Marbles · « **Reply #66 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 02:33 am »

Sorry, sometimes I just crack myself up...must be the color of it.

So YOU are the one that bought all of Danny's foam.

Sure has made a nice difference in my system.

JohnR · « **Reply #67 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 02:40 am »

Hey, I love that sofa! It's more orange in real life

There's a store near here that has a chair that I totally wanted to buy. It's almost the same color. It's a "high heel" chair. You sit on the toe, as it were, and the ... er... lady's foot is the backrest. But they wanted too much $$ for it

I decided to pass on the "lovely lips" sofa they had

Brad, I did

nathanm · « **Reply #68 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 02:59 am »

That lip sofa remind me of this site. Tons of way cool, obscenely overpriced furniture. I get much DIY inspiration from it, though.

http://retromodern.com/

To make up for this obnoxiously off-topic post I will make some more serious comments about the tube vs. solid state issue now:

Tube-using audiophiles have latent feelings of sexual inadequacy and that is why they surround themselves with little phallic-looking amplifiers. Unfortunately they also brag about them being "flea powered" and only work well with "certain speakers", which further confounds the issue.

gonefishin · « **Reply #69 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 03:01 am »

That's some great advice about room Treatments...but the wife and I have a different idea of what is needed on the walls...She's really good about this audio hobby...but I have to get room treatments passed by here as room decorations...that she can pick out...but how do I get rear speaker panels passed her? hey honey...don't ya think we really need some acoustic panels on the wall...right there...behind the speakers...and maybe;) hehe...I see her reaction now

Dan...nice amps you got (took a look at your website) But, I must say...After reading your comments here about distortion and tube amps...It did give me a chuckle to see this statement "Note: The harmonic distortion is second order and not considered audible by any present study. following your distortion rating for the LNPA 150.

Just struck a funny bone with me.

oh...which do I like better? SS or tubes.

You know...I've heard some real nice sounding systems using both...SS and tubes. Come to think of it...I've heard some pretty bad sounding systems using both too.

Take care all>>>>>>>

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #70 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 03:02 am »

John; Is that your audition couch? I get the feeling you enjoy chaos. To keep my sanity I have my lab/listening room/ bench in the attic. One half of the room is where speakers, and assorted equipment are and the other half is where the bench is. Outside the lab is where I have a storage area for assorted parts and completed units. Looks like you need a workshop, BIGTIME.
So tell me John; isn't having the workshop in the same room along with the audition couch just a bit kinky? Does the new Karma Sutra involve 12" woofers? Inquiring minds want to know?

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #71 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 03:08 am »

Jay S. Even though the speakers appear far from the side wall do some experimenting here as I suggested. Temporarily tack up some sound deading material on the doors and hear what happens. Go for as close a Live end/ Dead end as you can get.

JohnR · « **Reply #72 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 04:03 am »

Quote from: Dan Banquer

So tell me John; isn't having the workshop in the same room along with the audition couch just a bit kinky?

Heh heh, no doubt ... but it hasn't worked for me yet

I think I need to work more on the *placement* of the unconnected 12" woofers

But seriously, you are right... I NEED a proper workshop!!! I am going insane without one! Even if I can't design a half-decent solid state amp in a million years

It must be a bloke thing....

Nathan, it's not how HOT your tubes are, it's how many you got

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/evo/amp/el509/phot2.jpg">

nathanm · « **Reply #73 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 04:22 am »

Aren't those the ones where if you knock those clips off the top you'll electrocute yourself of the spot? Looks like there's 16 times the fun on that baby! Those wicked cool Transcendent OTL amps are also thick with tubes. Anyone owning one of those surely must be compensating...

eric the red · « **Reply #74 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 05:07 am »

Since my foam-behind-the-speakers experiment worked so well, I have decided to spray foam all the walls, floor and ceiling in my listening room. My dog won't mind and I can heat my room with my amp.

DVV · « **Reply #75 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 07:52 am »

Quote from: nathanm

Aren't those the ones where if you knock those clips off the top you'll electrocute yourself of the spot? Looks like there's 16 times the fun on that baby! Those wicked cool Transcendent OTL amps are also thick with tubes. Anyone owning one of those surely must be compensating...

So, you read Philip K. Dick too, huh brother Nate?

JohnR, have you considered (in light of the outlandishly expensive sex chair) decoupling your speakers from the floor by installing some nice black high heeled ladies' shoes? Jeez, that should look sexy.

Of course, installing a lady beneath the, er, speaker would be better still, but, ...

Cheers,
DVV

nathanm · « **Reply #76 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 08:14 am »

Quote from: DVV

So, you read Philip K. Dick too, huh brother Nate?

I don't remember exactly where it was I read that. Certainly the threat of death or serious injury adds an extra "manly man" factor to any piece of equipment!

Who is Phillip K. Dick?

Oh wait, I know what you mean now (duh!); you're referring to the whole penis\sports car kinda thing. (at first I thought you were referring to the tube wires!) I don't know where that comes from, seems to be a common knowledge kinda thing. I use it in a tongue-in-cheek manner cause I think that form of philiosophy\psychology a bit ridiculous. But I have not studied it, it's just one of those things you hear somewhere.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #77 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 04:13 pm »

To gonefishin: Take a minute to read the beginnig of my FAQ's and you won't just be laughing. You'll be rolling on the floor at how stupid most of the audio business really is. This should put the issue of distortion in proper perspective.
http://www.redesignsaudio.com/faqs.html

DVV · « **Reply #78 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 05:48 pm »

Quote from: nathanm

Quote from: DVV
So, you read Philip K. Dick too, huh brother Nate?

I don't remember exactly where it was I read that. Certainly the threat of death or serious injury adds an extra "manly man" factor to any piece of equipment!

Who is Phillip K. Dick?

Tsk, tsk, tsk! Really, brother Nate, I expected better of your frivolous, renaissance nature.

Philip K. Dick is easily the most filmed US Sci-Fi author of all times; also, in my view, easily the best USA ever gave us, though he did lose it here and there with his gestalt thing. The only man ever able to compete with Dick was Alfred Bester, little known, but a stunning mind. Comic book lovers will probably know him as the father of DC Comics' "Green Lantern" and "Flash". Others are Clifford Simak, Damon Knight, Frank Herbert ("Dune"), etc.

To remind you, "Bladerunner" is based on Dick's "Do Robots Count Electric Sheep?" and partly on "We Can Build You", "Screamers" was also based on P. Dick's, and the Gary Sinise movie I saw only yesterday, "The Impostor". There are also other, less significant movies.

Pick up Dick's "Ubiq", or "We Can Build You" books and have some mind wrenching fun, he makes you stop and think. In many ways, a total opposite to Robert Heinlein, who spent his life exporting The American Way Of Life into space, including small town supermarkets, and got filmed only once ("Starship Troopers").

Dick got his Hugo Award for his outstanding "The Man In The High Castle" book, way back in the late 60-ies, which I would strongly suggest you read now if ever.

But people, Philip K. Dick was one of us, an ardent audiophile, who spent his life as a music critic on a California radio station.

Quote

Oh wait, I know what you mean now (duh!); you're referring to the whole penis\sports car kinda thing. (at first I thought you were referring to the tube wires!) I don't know where that comes from, seems to be a common knowledge kinda thing. I use it in a tongue-in-cheek manner cause I think that form of philiosophy\psychology a bit ridiculous. But I have not studied it, it's just one of those things you hear somewhere.

So much for penis-like whatever. Really, Nate!

Cheers,
DVV

nathanm · « **Reply #79 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 06:02 pm »

Well okay, so I screwed up twice! I have no idea what you're talking about DVV, but it's getting clearer...

So for my own information and the complete and utter boredom of everyone else reading this, how does science fiction author Phillip K. Dick relate to my quoted comment that follows?

Quote

Aren't those the ones where if you knock those clips off the top you'll electrocute yourself of the spot? Looks like there's 16 times the fun on that baby! Those wicked cool Transcendent OTL amps are also thick with tubes. Anyone owning one of those surely must be compensating...

I thank you for your indulgence!