AVA binding post specs, pls?

murf · « **on:** 10 Apr 2011, 10:18 pm »

Hello Audio Experts!
My Fet-Valve amp is getting the "+" upgrade now, but I think I want to order some spade lugs for the speaker wires. Can anyone give the specs for the binding posts, please?
Outside Dia of post: 3/16,1/4,5/16?
Gauge of wire hole will accept: 12ga?

TIA! Murf

avahifi · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Apr 2011, 11:49 pm »

I strongly urge you to use double banana plugs for your speaker wire terminations. They are solid, safe, and easy to connect and disconnect.

We have actually seen users twist off the standard gold plated banana plugs by trying to over-tighten gonzo sized spade lugs. Then you really can hear a sonic difference.

Spade lugs work their way loose, short the speaker wires together, and are unreliable.

We have Pomona dual banana plugs available for $5 each (either red or black). If they are good enough for most research labs, they are good enough for us.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Apr 2011, 05:28 pm »

I agree with Frank that dual bananas are the best wire termination, where ever you can use them. If you must know about the speaker terminal, the outside diameter of the post is .222", so you will need a 1/4" spade. The hole for using stripped wire is .154", which means you can use up to 10 gauge wire (.102"), and I'd perfer the bare stripped wire over the spade terminal.

The spade, if moved the wrong way will loosen up the post lock and is a bad design (in my books). Bare wire is good, but care must be taken to prevent wire contact with the amplifier chassis.

Wayner

murf · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Apr 2011, 06:24 pm »

wires on hold; UPS just delivered my "+" upgraded Fet-valve amp!

Let's see how this thing sounds...I'll be back.

Murf

Tom Alverson · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Apr 2011, 09:56 pm »

If you can't find the Pomona plugs, these are very similar:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=091-334

murf · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Apr 2011, 09:59 pm »

Hello Audio Experts!
I managed to get the wires in bare, which was quite a chore. My speakers are bi-wired, with t-14 & Belden 5000, so 14ga + 12ga = 10ga, except when you have to twist them together yourself. I had to pull the wires through the cabinet, flip the amp & work from the underside of the amp, then back the mess into the cabinet. Good thing I don't have gonzo big wires!
I hesitate to use bananas, partly because the only ones I have used were Monsters which really did sound bad. Once you go bare can you ever go back?
The first thing I noticed about my "+" upgraded fetvalve was, hey, where are the torx screws? I liked them. But I just played Mercan Dede "Sufi Traveler", which is very poly-rhythmic Asian stuff, and not only is every note so clear, but how they get to every note is clear. The control makes the music seem more calm in a way....
Oh Dog it's good to get the amp back. I was using a B&K st-140 and a HK Sig.2.1 as amps, which are pretty nice, but this Fetvalve is different big-time.

Thanks Frank! Sorry about that power cord.

Murf

jhm731 · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 07:32 am »

Murf-

I think Mr.Van Alstine and Wayner have given you some very good advice.

When I tested one of Mr.Van Alstine's amps with standard size spades connectors, and it was very easy to over tighten the stock plastic binding posts causing them to slip and get stuck.

Since Mr.Van Alstine and Wayner prefer dual bananas, I'm surprised that they're
still using five-way or universal binding posts.

murf · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 01:34 pm »

Hi JHM,
I really do appreciate that Frank & Wayner are not just blowing smoke. But I think Wayner uses bare wire, and I was using spades on the low of my biwire setup with this amp for a couple of years (with huge bass wires!), which was a pain but if you're careful, worked for me OK. So maybe a better spade on this smaller Belden 5000 cable will be fine.
The binding posts on this AVA amp are just like those on my B&K & HK amps, ie: can be stripped. I just noticed a spinning plastic knob on my HK amp, which uses pretty small (16ga?) wires. So that makes two posts that I have stripped with finger power! I think a dab of 'Liquid Nails' works real well, though.

Murf

Brett Buck · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 05:58 pm »

Quote from: murf on 12 Apr 2011, 01:34 pm

The binding posts on this AVA amp are just like those on my B&K & HK amps, ie: can be stripped. I just noticed a spinning plastic knob on my HK amp, which uses pretty small (16ga?) wires. So that makes two posts that I have stripped with finger power!

16 ga should be plenty, any more is mostly a fashion accessory.

Brett

Wayner · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 06:37 pm »

I don't want to turn this thread into another wire debate. Wire gauge that is heavier then necessary and that also has the potential to cause damage to binding posts is perhaps not the best thing to do. I personally use some 14 gauge Belden and it is overkill. Any run under 50 feet per side would be served very well with 16awg wire.

This is an amplifier, not a Lincoln wire welder. So using a gauge of wire that is heavier then the power cord should be a tip-off.

Wayner

murf · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 07:55 pm »

Folks,
I sure don't want a wire debate!

I just want to connect some what I feel to be moderate wires (DHlabs T14 & BLC Belden 5000-12ga) in a safe & secure way that doesn't diminish the superb signal emanating from my Fetvalve amp. I was hoping to find the proper size of the posts so as to not get some gonzo-sized massive spades (preferably) which could be trouble if too big & on stiff wire.
While I don't think (IMHO) massive & expensive wires, etc. will make my system any better per se, I do think that there are wire products out there that will make my system sound worse. Monster banana plugs, exhibit 1; 'Anti-wires' also. My Gonzo power cord (Belden 83802), no difference. My '+' amp upgrade, yes, nice & real difference. My Berendsen cdp1 vs cdp2, big difference. If your ears draw the line at Home Depot 16ga ripcord, fine. Mine seem to draw the line at t14 on top, and maybe the Belden 5000-12ga. for bass. YYMV

Lincoln welders have more watts? How 'delicate' is the signal transmission?

Murf

murf · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 08:50 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 10 Apr 2011, 11:49 pm

"...If they are good enough for most research labs, they are good enough for us."

I do think there is a fallacy in this argument. Research & medical labs I have been familiar with realize that they are working with a possible range of test outcomes, either because of sample, conditions, handling or whatever. Hence they will often test often, sometimes hourly. Medical equipment is rolled down halls & pushed around rooms for sterilization; things I don't want done to my audio equipment! In labs, sturdy and repeatable is sometimes preferable to the last measure of accuracy.
But then again, some labs might have a need for the 'audiophile accuracy' that we all pursue here!

YMMV!, (ducking...) Murf

avahifi · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 09:09 pm »

It would be nice if when my clients replace their power cords that they got the hot and ground polarity right so they don't risk killing themselves (or us when we need to service the equipment).

Then the discussion of which wire sounds better is mute.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

murf · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 09:24 pm »

Hi Frank,
Couldn't agree with you more on the PC polarity; thanks again! I love that you looked my amp over. I think you would agree that more people should send you their amps for a check. Too bad freight is so much; must be that darn gonzo faceplate....

Whenever I get my car aligned I always ask the worker if he noticed anything bad under there. Even though I've been rebuilding BMWs since the 70's. In my early automotive days, I forgot to tighten the lug nuts on my sister's bug.

But my ears aren't attached to that part of my brain.

Murf

Tone Depth · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 09:47 pm »

Use something like these stackable banana plugs for your biwiring: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=091-334 One set for your bass wires, one set for your mid/hi wires, per channel.

Quote from: murf on 12 Apr 2011, 07:55 pm

Folks,
I sure don't want a wire debate! I just want to connect some what I feel to be moderate wires (DHlabs T14 & BLC Belden 5000-12ga) in a safe & secure way that doesn't diminish the superb signal emanating from my Fetvalve amp. I was hoping to find the proper size of the posts so as to not get some gonzo-sized massive spades (preferably) which could be trouble if too big & on stiff wire.
While I don't think (IMHO) massive & expensive wires, etc. will make my system any better per se, I do think that there are wire products out there that will make my system sound worse. Monster banana plugs, exhibit 1; 'Anti-wires' also. My Gonzo power cord (Belden 83802), no difference. My '+' amp upgrade, yes, nice & real difference. My Berendsen cdp1 vs cdp2, big difference. If your ears draw the line at Home Depot 16ga ripcord, fine. Mine seem to draw the line at t14 on top, and maybe the Belden 5000-12ga. for bass. YYMV

Lincoln welders have more watts? How 'delicate' is the signal transmission?

Murf

martyo · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 10:15 pm »

Hey murf. I use the 10ga. Belden 5T00UP and I also bi-wire. BUT I'm using the Monster

dual bananas. I'm gonna check out another brand just to see, they're cheap. Care to share any of your other gear?

murf · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 10:38 pm »

Hi Martyo.
I recently got a Berendsen cdp1, which goes into a Cary Cinema 6 pre/pro, to the 350 fetvalve +, to my homegrown bigbox sealed 3-way speakers (Peerless 10" woof, Peerless mid, Dynaudio tweet, 2nd (external)crossover itteration, ~ 180+lb...) All this 'soft' stuff seems to go well with my DHlabs t14 hi/ Belden 5000-12ga lo speaker wires and HGA silver interconnects.

Since I do have the bare wires (14+12=10ga) into the binding post holes pretty well, I might keep them that way. Or when I feel rich get some Lok spades (~4@$20.) or some low mass bananas (forget the brand) for about the same $.

Murf

mark funk · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 10:41 pm »

Martyo,

Monster

Bananas are the way to go! You can stack them too. As they say at work, It's a win-win!

martyo · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 11:28 pm »

Quote from: mark funk on 12 Apr 2011, 10:41 pm

Martyo, Monster

Bananas are the way to go! You can stack them too. As they say at work, It's a win-win!

This is how my brother treats me.

murf · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Apr 2011, 02:18 pm »

Hi Folks,
Whenever I do some work on a car engine, before I do my hi-speed test, I make damn sure the brakes work. I trust Frank & his folks take prudent precautions in their work. Of course, I deserve a smack to the head by Frank for my PC (the term 'Dutch Uncle' was coined for a reason) and do apologize, but are my opinions really moot (or mute) because?
I had a hi-po clutch assembly put in my car last fall. The vendor strongly recommended heavier tranny oil to quiet the slight rattle caused by the lighter flywheel. I asked the vendor (from Atlanta) if maybe I would be better off with the standard lighter oil since I go north into the extreme cold. He said no. I said why? He said because I'm an engineer. I changed the oil one month into the winter. Much better cold shifting, and I don't really care about the small rattle (which, going by that forum, bothers many people).
One tool all auto mechanics need is a breaker bar. This increases the torque a person can apply to a nut or bolt by increasing the lever arm. A banana plug adds what, 2" of lever arm? Stacked bananas ~ 3-4" lever arm? Plus the cable sticking out the back of a banana also adds to the lever arm force which acts on the pivot point, ie: where the binding post meets the case wall. Spade lugs, no lever arm. Is this significant? It is when changing tires!
On an old car forum, a guy was saying that his 'big brake kit' was not just jewelery, but got him around the track faster. The contrary opinion was that the stock brakes locked up the wheels just fine, so the big stuff was jewelery. The big brake guy got angry and left. Thing is, he was right but didn't know the reason why: at hi speeds the big brakes reached threshold braking a millisecond sooner, but at hi speeds this could mean an extra foot of track at the corner apex which could be the difference between spinning and winning. But when does the greater rotational mass and unsprung weight of bigger brakes overcome this positive factor? We never had that discussion.
I'm not telling anyone what is correct, just adding experiences from auto & health disciplines which could be applicable.
Thanks for the binding post info Wayner. And I have no probs with the added un-solicitated advice from the good folks here! Life is too short....

Murf