[twitch54]

Alright Superbowl is history and it's 2/14 and pitchers and catchers have reported, so............is there any team 'on paper' that even remotely comes close to the Phillies starting five ? I know you still have to play all 162, but if they manage to stay healthy and assuming they pick up a legitimate right handed bat along the way I see no reason why they can't win it all.

GO PHILLIES !!!!!!

[woodsyi]

I still can't believe the Cards are just going to let Albert walk after this season.  You have to believe the window to sign is now and not after the season when he becomes a free agent.  Granted most big market teams seem to be tied up with long contracts at first base but Cubbies will have room....

[Freo-1]

The Tigers pitching staff has the potential to be very good for a number of years.  The top 3 starters all throw hard, the bullpen looks pretty strong as well.

They will need a few breaks along the way to get to the post season, but they could be scary in a short post season series.

[JerryM]

I still can't believe the Cards are just going to let Albert walk after this season.  You have to believe the window to sign is now and not after the season when he becomes a free agent.  Granted most big market teams seem to be tied up with long contracts at first base but Cubbies will have room....

I don't think they're going to just let him walk away. They're struggling with a 30 Million Dollar per year deal.

In the last ten years, Pujols has averaged 190 hits, 120 RBI's and 40 Home Runs per season. In today's League, he's worth 30M per year.

Seriously, Pirates pitcher Russ Ohlendorf just won his salary arbitration and will be paid two million dollars this year. He was 1-11 last year! 

If 1-11 is worth two million, what's 120 runs per year worth?

I think the Cards will keep him. It's just going to hurt and they're getting prepared... 

Go Dodgers,
Jerry

[prvngrnd]

I still can't believe the Cards are just going to let Albert walk after this season.  You have to believe the window to sign is now and not after the season when he becomes a free agent.  Granted most big market teams seem to be tied up with long contracts at first base but Cubbies will have room....

As a Cardinals fan, I know this sounds crazy but I might actually prefer to see him leave St. Louis. Without a doubt he has been an institution; the face of the franchise, and he is the most feared hitter in the game with many great, productive years ahead of him. However he has been in the league for 10 years and is past what you might call his actual "prime." The multi-year deal would probably start to taste pretty sour by year 5 or 6. There are so many other questions to be answered on that roster and productive first baseman are a dime-a-dozen (admittedly not as productive as Pujols, but AAA Memphis has some good candidates). I would much rather see that money spent on a better middle infield and another quality starter.

If St. Louis does not resign him, I just don't want to see him go to the Cubs. Otherwise I would wish him all the best.

Go Cards!

[twitch54]

Albert is a class act for sure, I wish him a great year (except when playing against the Phillies) so as to get his 'paycheck' in free agency. Good Lord knows if 'NimRod' in NY got his.... not once but twice, Albert will hopefully get his.

[soundbitten1]

A Rushmore penthouse is next for A-Rod ...   

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/02/18/2011-02-18_arod_agrees_to_purchase_penthouse_in_the_rushmore_building_on_manhattans_upper_w.html

[zybar]

Want to truly understand how awesome Pujols is?  Check out this article:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?name=olney_buster&id=6130979

He is basically alone on an island in terms of what he has accomplished in his first ten years.  If he never played another game, I would vote him into the HOF on the first ballot.

I understand the economics of the situation, but I am scratching my head wondering why St. Louis gave that big contract to Holliday knowing that it would take a couple of Brinks trucks to keep Albert...

George

[bpape]

It was a double edged sword.  Albert wants to win.  If the team wasn't willing to surround him with other players that gave them a shot, he'd look elsewhere.  Enter Berkman, Holliday, etc.  Unfortunately, they gave up Ludwick in the process. 

According to Albert, all of the numbers and terms being thrown around are way off base - but who knows really?  There are a few ways this can be handled.

- Let it go to free agency and potentially find out that he's not going to get what he wants from anybody in which case St. Louis will resign him.

- Play creative accounting where you give him a longer deal, and pay him for years he's not likely actually going to be playing with much of the money front-loaded.  Think a 20 year contract with 2/3 of the money in the first 10 years.  This is not without precident.

- It's well known that Albert gives approx 1/2 of his salary to charity.  Similar deal to the above - 2/3 pay during the 10 years, then 10 years guaranteed to a fund that he administers to go to the charities. 

Albert is a family man and a genuinely decent guy.  I firmly believe that he WANTS to stay in St. Louis for the rest of his career.

Bryan

[jackman]

Seriously, Pirates pitcher Russ Ohlendorf just won his salary arbitration and will be paid two million dollars this year. He was 1-11 last year! 

If 1-11 is worth two million, what's 120 runs per year worth?
I think the Cards will keep him. It's just going to hurt and they're getting prepared... 

Jerry, you know better than this.  To compare a pitcher on a "minor league" team, the Pirates to a hitter on any team is unfair.  Ohlendorf was making league minumum (or close to it at $430K) last year and he will make a little over $2 million this year.  He was 1-11 on a BAD team but was a respectable 11-10 the prior year when he made $413K.  Either way, his value has nothing to do with Albert's. 

It's tough for teams in small markets like St. Louis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Tampa, etc., to pay players fair market value.  In the case of Albert P, the Cards should trade him and try to get something for him ASAP.  It sucks but it's better than getting nothing in return.  Teams like the Phillies, Red Sox and the Yankees will continue to get fat and sassy on players other teams have developed and can't afford to sign. 

Albert is a $30 Million guy and the Cardinal fans are going to hate him for making a financial decision but I don't see any alternative.  If they pay him, they will surround him with a bunch of minimum wage guys and become Pirates because they will not be able to field a competitive team. 

This is why I always root for teams like the Rays and the Twinkies because they have to be smarter or craftier than the Yankees and Red Sox because they can't compete with the big wallets.  I love to see the Yankees and Sox lose, while fielding All Star lineup.  Oh, same for the Phillies! 

Spring is in the air, cuz we are talking baseball!

Cheers,

Jack

[jackman]

Bryan, if anyone is willing to give a team the "home team" discount, it is Albert.   He is a great player (possibly the best right handed hitter I have seen).  For years, I never thought I'd see a guy as good as Frank Thomas from the right side but Albert should finish his career with better numbers.  A sure HOF guy and better hitter than some of the steroid cheats like A-Rod and Bagwell who are/were great hitters. 

Thomas' numbers suffered after his 9th year, when he was injured.  Before that year, he was always a great power hitter, with great obp and high average.  He's not well liked around Chicago because he had a dick personality but his talent was HOF worthy.  Albert is a better all-around hitter and it pains me to say it because I was a fan of the "Big Hurt".  The sight of Albert Puljols in any uni that does not have a cardinal on it would make me cringe...and I hate the Cards! 

[zybar]

Bryan, if anyone is willing to give a team the "home team" discount, it is Albert.   He is a great player (possibly the best right handed hitter I have seen).  For years, I never thought I'd see a guy as good as Frank Thomas from the right side but Albert should finish his career with better numbers.  A sure HOF guy and better hitter than some of the steroid cheats like A-Rod and Bagwell who are/were great hitters. 

Thomas' numbers suffered after his 9th year, when he was injured.  Before that year, he was always a great power hitter, with great obp and high average.  He's not well liked around Chicago because he had a dick personality but his talent was HOF worthy.  Albert is a better all-around hitter and it pains me to say it because I was a fan of the "Big Hurt".  The sight of Albert Puljols in any uni that does not have a cardinal on it would make me cringe...and I hate the Cards!

The Big Hurt was good, but I am not sure I would say that he is the best right handed hitter that this 40 year old and lifelong baseball fan had seen before Albert came around.  He certainly is in the conversation, but so is Manny, Bagwell, Edgar Martinez, Albert Belle, and A-Rod.  I still don't know how to evaluate the steroid era, so I am keeping Manny and A-roid in the conversation.

BTW, why are you lumping Bagwell in with A-roid?  There is no evidence that Bagwell used PED's.

George

[jackman]

The Big Hurt was good, but I am not sure I would say that he is the best right handed hitter that this 40 year old and lifelong baseball fan had seen before Albert came around.  He certainly is in the conversation, but so is Manny, Bagwell, Edgar Martinez, Albert Belle, and A-Rod.  I still don't know how to evaluate the steroid era, so I am keeping Manny and A-roid in the conversation.

BTW, why are you lumping Bagwell in with A-roid?  There is no evidence that Bagwell used PED's.

George

Hi George, I watched Frank play lots of those games in person, in his prime.  When he was a young man, he was the best I have ever seen live and before he was injured one of the best.  He could hit for power, average and his OBP was great because he walked a lot.  It's hard to say "best" in baseball because there is such a rich history.  I'd rate big Frank ahead of Edgar and Bagwell.  Albert Belle was a MONSTER in Cleveland and he finished his career with the White Sox.  I had a chance to see him play in person quite a bit and although he was not a fan favorite, he was a killer at the plate. 

I hate Manny and A-Rod but they are also in the conversation.  Manny is a complicated dude because, although his numbers were great, he played when he decided to play and was pretty much classless for most of his career.  He is my most hated player of all time and the ONLY guy who I watch bat just so I can hope he gets beaned in the head.  When he disgraced the White Sox uni, I thought about never watching the team again.  Manny is scum.

If you want to include "juiced" players (or at least ones we are pretty sure were on the stuff), I would say that Barry Bonds was the most dangerous hitter to ever live.  When he was juiced up and dialed in, he was almost unstoppable. He needed (and pretty much received) no help in the lineup, played in a huge park and achieved a level of dominance at the plate that I have never seen.  He's my second most hated player (after Manny)  but was more talented than any of the names mentioned in this thread. 

I'm not a fan, and it hurts me to admit this but I don't think I have ever seen a player as dangerous and dialed in as Bonds was in those crazy Balco-juice days.  In fairness, we have now learned many of the pitchers were also juiced up so maybe it's just tit for tat. 

[zybar]

Hi George, I watched Frank play lots of those games in person, in his prime.  When he was a young man, he was the best I have ever seen live and before he was injured one of the best.  He could hit for power, average and his OBP was great because he walked a lot.  It's hard to say "best" in baseball because there is such a rich history.  I'd rate big Frank ahead of Edgar and Bagwell.  Albert Belle was a MONSTER in Cleveland and he finished his career with the White Sox.  I had a chance to see him play in person quite a bit and although he was not a fan favorite, he was a killer at the plate. 

I hate Manny and A-Rod but they are also in the conversation.  Manny is a complicated dude because, although his numbers were great, he played when he decided to play and was pretty much classless for most of his career.  He is my most hated player of all time and the ONLY guy who I watch bat just so I can hope he gets beaned in the head.  When he disgraced the White Sox uni, I thought about never watching the team again.  Manny is scum.

If you want to include "juiced" players (or at least ones we are pretty sure were on the stuff), I would say that Barry Bonds was the most dangerous hitter to ever live.  When he was juiced up and dialed in, he was almost unstoppable. He needed (and pretty much received) no help in the lineup, played in a huge park and achieved a level of dominance at the plate that I have never seen.  He's my second most hated player (after Manny)  but was more talented than any of the names mentioned in this thread. 

I'm not a fan, and it hurts me to admit this but I don't think I have ever seen a player as dangerous and dialed in as Bonds was in those crazy Balco-juice days.  In fairness, we have now learned many of the pitchers were also juiced up so maybe it's just tit for tat.

All great points Jackman.

I only got to see Thomas play a handful of times at Yankee Stadium, so most of my observations are from watching him on TV.  Out of the players I listed, I probably saw Manny play the most in person, followed by Belle, and Edgar.

While I have a tremendous appreciation for Manny as a hitter, I have no respect for him as a player or person.  As great a hitter as he was, I wouldn't want him on the Yankees (even in his prime).

I agree that Bonds was literally and figuratively a monster from 2000-2004.  We will probably never see a player compete at a level so far above the competition over a multi-year period.  The best 4-5 year period that I got to see in person was Mattingly's run from 1984-1989.  During this period I think it is fair to say that he was not only a great hitter, but probably one of the most complete and best players in baseball.

If we moved over to pitching, the most dominant starter I have seen for an extended period of time was Pedro from 1997-2003.  During this period Pedro possessed a combination of power and finesse that is rarely ever seen, let alone for such a long period of time. 

God, I love baseball!  I never talk this way about the other sports I follow.

George

[jackman]

Hi George,

Great post.  When you were leading up to your comment about great pitching, I thought you were going to mention Rodger Clemens or one of the many pitchers I hated...and I was ready to respond with Pedro in the late 90's as my comeback!  I agree with your comment 100%. 

I have always been a fan of pitchers and Pedro in his prime during the period you reference is as good as it gets in my book.  I remember watching him pitch in the playoffs when he was injured (strained or torn abdominal muscle I believe) and he was un-hittable even though he could not throw a fastball.  The guys knew what was coming and could not hit it. 

Over the long-haul, I would also throw Mariano Rivera into that class.  He pretty much throws the same pitch (cutter) every time time, with same locatoin -eye level, and he doesn't change speeds...yet he has dominated the best hitters in baseball for longer than I can remember.  I've never been accused of being a Yankee fan but this guy is the best closer I have ever seen and his cut fastball is the most unhittable pitch I have ever seen. 

[twitch54]

I would say that Barry Bonds was the most dangerous hitter to ever live. 

really............more so than the 'Babe' ? show me a power hitter with a better life time BA....his was .342 I believe. IMO, he is still the greatest player the game has produced.

granted you young guys are talking the modern era and I fully understand it's very difficult to draw comparisons to the various eras.......live balls, mound ht, equipment changes, ballpark configurations, etc. Not to mention the evolution of the physical body itself !

Tough..........like trying to agree on the all-time greatest starting '9' !!

[twitch54]

If we moved over to pitching, the most dominant starter I have seen for an extended period of time was Pedro from 1997-2003.

George, you're probably too young (lucky dog !) to remember this guy.......

http://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/03/100-greatest-phillies-3-robin-roberts/

his six consecutive 20 plus win seasons was every bit as dominating, I was blessed to have met the man before he passed.

[mfsoa]

granted you young guys are talking the modern era and I fully understand it's very difficult to draw comparisons to the various eras.......live balls, mound ht, equipment changes, ballpark configurations, etc. Not to mention the evolution of the physical body itself !

I think one big difference is that in Babe's era, the overwhelming majority (OK, maybe too broad? maybe not?) of the best ballplayers weren't allowed to play the game. 

-Mike

[twitch54]

I think one big difference is that in Babe's era, the overwhelming majority (OK, maybe too broad? maybe not?) of the best ballplayers weren't allowed to play the game. 

-Mike

Mike, good point, the Negro League without question produced some of the best, Josh Gibson being the most closely compared to Ruth. But to say the overwhelming majority.......well all I can say is....1927 Yankees !!

[jackman]

really............more so than the 'Babe' ? show me a power hitter with a better life time BA....his was .342 I believe. IMO, he is still the greatest player the game has produced.

granted you young guys are talking the modern era and I fully understand it's very difficult to draw comparisons to the various eras.......live balls, mound ht, equipment changes, ballpark configurations, etc. Not to mention the evolution of the physical body itself !

Tough..........like trying to agree on the all-time greatest starting '9' !!

It's impossible to compare players from the Babe's era to modern players.  The Babe also had the "luxury" of never having to face any black or latin players.  They also didn't pitch around him (or couldn't on those Yankee teams because the lineup was stacked) and the science of pitching is not what it is today.  Not to minimize his accomplishments but if you could resurrect the Bambino (time machine?) and watch him pitch against a modern day pitcher, it would not be pretty...