[drphoto]

ajzepp, can you post details on how you biamp?

Have people compared biamping vs the series crossover?

JK, has any one tried applying the dynamat type stuff to both sides of the MDF? Maybe I'm confused (I've been on 3rd shift lately and am in a bit of a daze most of the time) but it seems like the 'half razor' applies the damping to the back only, and 'full razor' adds damping only to the pole pieces.

BTW: anyone have a comment on the model 12? (or is it 1.2?) Pair up on 'gon for $800.

The one thing I will say for Maggies, is that they probably hold value better than almost anything else. No 50% of new here. I think my Merlin TSM series holds up pretty well too...the VSM, though seems to take a big hit.

[jk@home]

The "half razor" applies the VMAX on the front of the driver (mylar side, viewed by the listener), the "full razor" is this plus lots of small strips applied to the back pole pieces.

AFAIK, the VMAX isn't applied to the MDF, but to the driver perimeter that sits inside the MDF frame. What I did to mine is basically the "other half" razor mod, pole pieces only.

The fellow who came up with this mod did state that he planned on doing hardwood frames and covering them top to bottom with the stuff. But part of the VMAX is thin sheet metal, with edges that would tear the stock sock if it got anywhere near it. Without the sock, well it wouldn't win any beauty contest.

Even though I used hardwood frames, I designed mine to be covered with a MG12 sock. So I won't be going there.

Here's a review of the Magnestand 1.6, the author talks about passive series vs active crossovers:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue37/magnestand.htm

[drphoto]

Having only owned an ancient pair of 2c's from the early 80's, I suppose my knowlage of Maggie topography is somewhat limited. On mine, the pole pieces (the metal bit) face forward. Is this not true on the more modern designs? I did try listening to them turned 'backwards' at some point. (not reversing the driver, but just turning around the whole thing) After many years, I can't remember if it did anything.

I misspoke (or typed as it were) earlier. I thought the half razor was rope caulk in the gap and dynamat over the MDF on the back. (which I assumed to be the mylar side) and full razor was this plus the pole piece dampening.

If the sock is such a PITA, couldn't one make a 'grill'? Some sort of frame w/ cloth?

Once again, JK, I really appreciate you're coming here. I'm totally fired up to give this a shot. BTW, now I get your frame mod, that it elimates drilling the driver frame. Has anyone tried a bracket instead?  A "Z" shaped thingy? Just thinking off the top of my head here.

[jk@home]

If I'm not mistaken, Mylar is out front, pole pieces back now on all the models (except the 20, which AFAIK is totally different). That's PG whole theory, that Magnepan did it right then, and is why he reverses the drivers to mylar back as part of his mod. Others disagree. Not sure how he does the grilles, check out the planar porn thread here, someone posted a Magnestand not too long ago.

I have seen at least a couple of folks who have mounted the drivers to frames with metal  brackets or oversized washers, instead of drilling the drivers. Unfortunately that other place doesn't allow "stickies" so you have to just search the archives.

[drphoto]

So the mylar faces front now? I would have thought that might be better, since people talk about wanting to hear the membrane (well the air it moves to be correct) rather than the magnets, but your are saying people are going back to magnets in front, like my old 2's.

BTW: any thoughts on those 12's on 'gon for $800?

Hey JK....somewhere in one of those threads....over there....I saw you mention magnet wire. Now did you use this stuff in the crossover or to make speaker cables...or both?

I think topics are a bit hard to follow on AA, given the way the site works.

thanks again.

[jk@home]

PG recommends (or at least he did to me) DH Labs 14 gauge silver plated copper for the internal crossover wiring, so that's what I went with. Some folks use smaller gauge mag wire for this.

For speaker wire right now I am using Cat 5, no fancy twist, just one bundle per leg, shotgun style, which I think comes out to 15 gauge (24 x 8 wires). Kind of a temporary thing for now. I have some different gauge magnet wire to experiment with, not ready to yet though. Figured once I get other things done (room treatments, etc.), I'll work on playing with cables.

As far as AA is concerned, best to use the search function on any specific topic you are looking for.

[ajzepp]

ajzepp, can you post details on how you biamp?

Sure thing. When I first bought my 3.6s, I had a Butler 5150 hybrid tube amp that puts out 150wpc into 8ohms or 225 into 4. I wasn't sure this was sufficient, so I checked with both Magnepan and Butler, and it turned out that they used to pair up at audio shows in the past. Mr. Butler (a very cool guy) assured me it would be fine, so I went with it. I initially used the Maggie crossovers with one channel of the amp for each speaker. It did just fine, and the amp never seemed to break a sweat.

I eventually gave into the idea that Maggies really sing when they have plenty of power on tap. So I bought a Marchand active crossover (Mr. Marchand is another very classy gentleman and a pleasure to deal with), found a Butler 2250 from a fellow AC'er, and ditched the Maggie crossovers. I now have the two channels from the 2250 (400wpc into 4 ohms) handling the low end of the 3.6s, and two channels of the 5150 taking care of the mids and highs.

I typically will be one of the first to object when some people say the Maggies aren't dynamic. I can ASSURE you that my 3.6s in this configuration will thump the heck out of ya. They play much louder than I could ever stand to listen, and they handle all kinds of music, as well as HT, like a champ.

It's been about two wonderful years since introducing Maggie to the Butlers, and I have absolutely no ounce of desire to change a thing.

[Mike K.]

DRPHOTO:

One reporters opinion, having owned the Merlin TSM's (my favorite mini-monitor), which I preferred over my old SF Guarnair's, I sold them along with my medium high end equipment to get cash/downsize. (BTW, "I feel" the TSM's are better than the MMG's, 12's or 1.6's in a different kind of way, but the 3.6's are a different story)

Anyway, having lived with the "stock" MMG's for a year now (I've only made 2" high solid wood platforms to lift em up, while keeping them coupled to the floor, which I feel is necessary to maintain there bass "IMHO"). I am very happy with them and do not feel deprived at all. In fact this system (MMG's, jolida 1501, MF CD 25.2 and Arcam tuner - total cost $2,800), is possible one of my favorite systems. Also, my MMG's are placed 18" from the back wall and 3' feet from the side walls and they still sound great.

In closing, I know there are various "mods/peter gunn's", which will improve MMG's. However, I feel the charm of the MMG's is that for only $600 they are so good, so complete, so musical why mess with them. Also, if you are going to spend extra money to improve them, spend it on getting a pair of used MG-12's, 1.6's or equipment for your wonderful TSM's.

Good Luck:
Mike K.

[drphoto]

Mike, I appreciate hearing from another Merlin TSM owner. Believe me, they are very good. In many ways they are much better than the Maggie 2c's they replaced. (especially on detail) I too think they are one of the best small conventional speakers on the market. Bobby has done a phenominal job w/ basically off the shelf Morel drivers. (though he says the tweeter are reworked to his spec) and the 'e' version is a huge improvement in smoothness.

 But I tend to think they sound like very good speaker. Maggies just sound more like real music at least to me. I think it's a combination of that large radiating surface and being dipole. Plus, they just look cool.

[jk@home]

DRPHOTO:
In closing, I know there are various "mods/peter gunn's", which will improve MMG's. However, I feel the charm of the MMG's is that for only $600 they are so good, so complete, so musical why mess with them. Also, if you are going to spend extra money to improve them, spend it on getting a pair of used MG-12's, 1.6's or equipment for your wonderful TSM's.

I agree when it comes to a cost vs performance issue. But from what I have read (said because I've only owned MMGs), room size can be a factor in choosing a particular model. If the room is too small, the smaller maggies actually will "fit" better than the larger ones. That's why some folks run seemingly unjustifiable high dollar front end electronics to their lowly MMGs or MG12s.

And why I'm pretty excited about the forth coming "Maggie Minis". True ribbon sound for folks with small rooms.

The OP's room seemed to be large enough to go with a larger model.

[andyr]

So the mylar faces front now? I would have thought that might be better, since people talk about wanting to hear the membrane (well the air it moves to be correct) rather than the magnets, but your are saying people are going back to magnets in front, like my old 2's.

Whether to have mylar front or the perforated metal plate (which holds the magnets) front is a perennial argument - just like tweeters in vs. tweeters out.  You need to try it for yourself and decide which way round you prefer them ... but when doing this, you need to ensure you swap R for L, so the tweeters stay in the same relative place (ie in or out, like they were before).

FWIW, I have my mylar frontwards on my true-ribbon 3-ways.

Regards,

Andy

[jlafrenz]

I have been considering some MMG's lately for my 2 channel setup. It seems as though most suggest making modifications to them. Is it really necessary or are they sub par without mods? They are a great price and as much fun as it would be to do some mods, I don't want to get into something that is going to end up costing me quite a bit more in the long run. What are the thoughts on the stock MMG's?

[andyr]

I have been considering some MMG's lately for my 2 channel setup. It seems as though most suggest making modifications to them. Is it really necessary or are they sub par without mods? They are a great price and as much fun as it would be to do some mods, I don't want to get into something that is going to end up costing me quite a bit more in the long run. What are the thoughts on the stock MMG's?

I would say 99% of Maggie owners (maybe even more!  ) listen to them stock.  It's only a tiny minority of "tinkerers" who get stuck into them.

Only you can decide whether you like listening to stock MMGs.  (Some people just don't like the planar sound.)  That being said, there is no doubt stock Maggies can be made to sound much better.

Be aware that they may not be compatible with your current amp (they don't necessarily need a "big" amp but they do need one that can drive 4 ohm loads well.  Such an amp is, typically, one that can deliver 'X' watts into 8 ohms and 2X watts into 4 ohms.).

Regards,

Andy

[ajzepp]

I have been considering some MMG's lately for my 2 channel setup. It seems as though most suggest making modifications to them. Is it really necessary or are they sub par without mods? They are a great price and as much fun as it would be to do some mods, I don't want to get into something that is going to end up costing me quite a bit more in the long run. What are the thoughts on the stock MMG's?

The opportunities are there for mods, and those who partake in that aspect of the hobby can help you if you ever decide to go that route. But like Andy said, the majority of people listen to them stock, and Maggies are amazing values in their stock presentation. I had MMGs for two years and they were awesome. I have all sorts of very distinct memories of "maggie magic" moments, and those experiences continue today. As Andy pointed out, just make sure you give them a capable amp. You don't have to break the bank...there are plenty of good, solid offerings for very reasonable money. When I had my MMGs, I had a pair of Outlaw Audio monoblocks. There are also great options from companies like Emotiva, parasound, B&K, Rotel, etc, etc. Audiogon and the trading post forum on this site often have fantastic deals on some very capable amps.

If you pair some MMGs with a proper amp, and then add in a subwoofer, you can have a 2.1 system that will kick the heck out of almost anything else you could put together at that price point, IMO.

[jlafrenz]

The opportunities are there for mods, and those who partake in that aspect of the hobby can help you if you ever decide to go that route. But like Andy said, the majority of people listen to them stock, and Maggies are amazing values in their stock presentation. I had MMGs for two years and they were awesome. I have all sorts of very distinct memories of "maggie magic" moments, and those experiences continue today. As Andy pointed out, just make sure you give them a capable amp. You don't have to break the bank...there are plenty of good, solid offerings for very reasonable money. When I had my MMGs, I had a pair of Outlaw Audio monoblocks. There are also great options from companies like Emotiva, parasound, B&K, Rotel, etc, etc. Audiogon and the trading post forum on this site often have fantastic deals on some very capable amps.

If you pair some MMGs with a proper amp, and then add in a subwoofer, you can have a 2.1 system that will kick the heck out of almost anything else you could put together at that price point, IMO.

Glad to see that many people are running them stock and are please with them. It may be fun in the future to mod them to increase their performance. I just didn't want to get caught up in spending a bunch of money to make them compete with other speakers. If that was the case then I would just keep what I have or purchase a completely different speaker.

As far as amps, I have been looking at a couple of Jolida units and a Vincent. I want to try and stick with tube integrated if I can.

[andyr]

As far as amps, I have been looking at a couple of Jolida units and a Vincent. I want to try and stick with tube integrated if I can.

If you are able to listen to a pair of MMGs before buying them - just to make sure you like the planar sound - then so much the better.  But if you decide to take the plunge, without listening, based on comments here ... I hope you enjoy them.    But I would suggest you should not buy a tube integrated without being able to first audition it with your MMGs.

Regards,

Andy

[jlafrenz]

If you are able to listen to a pair of MMGs before buying them - just to make sure you like the planar sound - then so much the better.  But if you decide to take the plunge, without listening, based on comments here ... I hope you enjoy them.    But I would suggest you should not buy a tube integrated without being able to first audition it with your MMGs.

Regards,

Andy

Might I ask your reasoning behind suggesting not to buy a tube integrated to pair with the MMG's? I have seen a few people posting on various forums that they have used this combo with success. I am still in the research phase so I welcome any insight.

It has been a while since I have heard Maggies. I originally heard the 3.6 and hated them. I then had the option to listen to them at another dealer and it seemed like a totally different speaker. They were set up properly and powered by a 50W tube amp. I also had a chance to listen to some smaller Maggies, though I can't remember if they were the MMG's. I do want to take a listen before purchasing, but the closest dealer is a couple of hours away. It may be more cost effective for me to pay the shipping from Magnepan than the gas it would take for me to drive there. I am likely a ways off from actually pulling the trigger on them anyway.

[andyr]

Might I ask your reasoning behind suggesting not to buy a tube integrated to pair with the MMG's? I have seen a few people posting on various forums that they have used this combo with success. I am still in the research phase so I welcome any insight.

It has been a while since I have heard Maggies. I originally heard the 3.6 and hated them. I then had the option to listen to them at another dealer and it seemed like a totally different speaker. They were set up properly and powered by a 50W tube amp. I also had a chance to listen to some smaller Maggies, though I can't remember if they were the MMG's. I do want to take a listen before purchasing, but the closest dealer is a couple of hours away. It may be more cost effective for me to pay the shipping from Magnepan than the gas it would take for me to drive there. I am likely a ways off from actually pulling the trigger on them anyway.

It's not so much a "tube integrated" per se ... simply that you make sure it is one which has sufficient power.  IE. listen first.

Re. the distance to a dealer - don't Magnepan have a "try for 30 days" deal on MMGs?

Regards,

Andy

[jlafrenz]

It's not so much a "tube integrated" per se ... simply that you make sure it is one which has sufficient power.  IE. listen first.

Re. the distance to a dealer - don't Magnepan have a "try for 30 days" deal on MMGs?

Regards,

Andy

The amps that I have been looking into are the Jolida1501 and the 202. The Vincent I have had my eye on is the 226 MKll. My 2 channel set up is in a spare bedroom so those amps should provide the power I need for my listening pleasure. As always, advice is welcomed.

Magnepan does have an in home trial. What I was saying is that going that route is probably better because it would be in my room and the shipping for the in home demo would be less than the cost of gas for me to drive to a dealer.

[BrassEar]

Had maggies for years (MMG, Tympani 1D, 2B, 1.6, etc.). Had my 1.6 gunned. Peter's mods add transparency to all maggies. But in the end, as much as I love the maggie warmth, they are just not as transparent as my current Martin Logans.  And maggies need current and volume to open up and sound their best. You can't listen to Maggies at very low volumes and call them high end. YMMV.