Maggie MMG?

drphoto · « **on:** 25 Nov 2010, 02:27 pm »

While my Merlin TSM-MMe's are a much more refined sounding speaker than my old modded 2c's, I miss that Maggie sound....the large as life image, expansive sound stage, and the way they can get mid bass, especially the acoustic stand up bass, spot on.

I think I just really like dipole speakers. Some say the image is 'diffuse'. I think it more correct to what I hear live.

But as I'm now a poor pharmacy tech waiting to get much poorer by becoming a pharamacy school student, I can't even spring for used 1.6's. (Well, maybe I could if I found a buyer for the Merlins)

So what about the MMG? ~$400 used. Only $600 new, and I assume shipping wouln't be as prohibative as on the larger models.

Can they deliver the goods?

Oh...I have a pair of GR OB/servo subs, so low bass is a non issue. (plus a 3rd sub for that dispersed sub thingy)

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 04:03 pm »

If the room is small enough and the amp is big enough, you can still get Maggie magic with MMG's. Additionally upgrades through numerous modifications are also available. The panels, frames, and crossovers are similar in MMG through 1.6, mostly panel size is the difference (the frame on the 1.6 is slightly stiffer with better feet than the MMG or 1.2). MMG's are slightly more veiled than 1.2's which are slightly more veiled than 1.6's, but there's a bigger jump from MMG's to 1.2's than from 1.2's to 1.6's. I have a very small room and have modded the feet on my MMG's so they are working wonders for me now. I'm sure they would improve with a modded frame and crossover. I have a fairly big amp driving them, "sufficient power" as Bentley would say.

SteveFord · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 11:12 pm »

I think that they'll cause you to spend less time studying and more time spinning albums...

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 12:12 am »

drphoto,

I owned the MMG's, bought 'em used for $500 or so...and could think of dozens of speakers I'd rather listen to for the same money.

As I often do, I used the product to discover my inner tweeker

By the end of it, some $800 or so more later (total outlay ~$1300)...I did the full top-n-bottom Mye stands (their first made for the MMG back then) and complete outboard crossovers with top notch parts (including Alpha-Core coils) from someone in Texas or Oklahoma (cannot remember his name - fine fellow he was, tho)

At $1300 it sounded great (driven by Odyssey mono's and, even better, serious 50watt Dukane 6CD6 tube mono's I have still today). I thought maybe the Mye Stand was more beneficial than the crossovers....and cheaper, too. It's that flexy frame as the main issue I think on the cheapest Maggies.

So, you may or may not be happy with the MMG and, if your short on cash, you may find upgrading to be too costly for your current budget.

In the end I sold my MMG's to a local here at AC (member: Rashiki) because the Magges, even the babies, need gargantuan spaces to sound right and I couldn't give it to them. I got to set them up at Rashiki's pad a couple years back and, in his place that was 4x the area of my small room, they sung like heaven itself in there

So, lesson learned - it cost me a $ few hundred in resale lost - Maggies are wonderful, but you must give them plenty of room to breathe and MMG is not adequate in it's stock form.

The 5th pic down in the Mye Stand Gallery is my old MMG: http://www.myesound.com/Gallery.html

John

jk@home · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 12:18 am »

As stated above, the smaller maggies can be greatly improved with mods. So they are perfect to start out stock and then add mods when you can afford them. Here's my MMGs:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/15/157804.html

Since this thread, I have turned the pole pieces back to the factory direction, and added Cascade VMAX damping strips down the pole piece gaps.

ajzepp · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 08:54 am »

DrPhoto: I ordered MMGs back in 2005 on a whim following a divorce. I didn't have any more than $500 to spend on speakers, so when I found the mail order MMGs I took a chance. I lived very happily with them for two years and give them all the credit for helping me to find my own holy grail of audio. I currently have 3.6s and just can't imagine being w/out Maggies ever again.

Good luck with the MMGs if you get them

SteveFord · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 10:52 am »

They will lead you down a slippery slope.
MMGs to MG1s to still more MMGs to IIIAs to 1.6s to 3.6s.
It's kind of like they planned it that way or something.

Crimson · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 11:18 am »

I vote yes. Go for it.

drphoto · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 01:54 pm »

Oh hell, now I've been reading about the Peter Gunn mods for these things. Over $1500 for mods to a $500 speaker? But if it's as good as people say, it may still be a bargain.

Anyone here heard or know about it? (He mods all Maggies, not just the MMG)

Seems like a number of Asylum inmates are trying DIY versions.

Could always dump the Merlins. No knock on them, they are a first rate small monitor. Part of why I went w/ them is they are so popular that like Magnepan, they seems to hold their value pretty well.

SteveFord · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 02:40 pm »

That I can't answer but if you have the room to set them up right, I'd look for 1.6s over modding a pair for MMGs.
The fellow I bought my 1.6s from had them set up in a small room in a NYC apartment and they still sounded pretty damned good and they were practically in your lap.

drphoto · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 02:54 pm »

Yeah. I've got the room. Maybe part of my looking elsewhere, is my little Merlins may be not up to the task in such a large space. 20x25x8 balcony overlooking an even larger area.

Gunn's philosophy is that the MDF 'baffle' transmits energy back to the driver and mucks things up. He doesn't just stiffen and brace, as do many DIY tweaks. He tosses the MDF totally for a natural wood surround to dissapate the vibrations.

He also redesigns the crossover to be 1st order, rather than just upgrade parts.

Curious if anyone has heard the result.

Dude has a year wait, so some people think it's worth it. But then again, some people like Justin Bieber! I could maybe do the DIY version, but I seem pressed to find time for anything anymore. Hell my DIY OB subs are still in raw MDF after 6 months. (they sound great, but lool like ass)

jk@home · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 11:22 pm »

I'm using the PG recommended series crossover on my MMGs, the majority of the mods I did mirror what he recommends.

Although I did the framing slightly different, I did use poplar, which is what he recommended to me. I was originally going to make "monolithic" frames out of Baltic Birch ply. The poplar ended up being much easier to route, etc.

He helped me out quite a bit on the MUG. We call modded mags like mine "Quasi Gunned" over there, cause they're not quite the genuine product.

From what I understand, he uses some slightly different components in the crossover now, people were complaining that it took too long for the Dynamicaps to break in (at least 200 + hours for mine). On the original x-over, one cap you have to order from Hong Kong, the other stuff can come from Canada or US.

He will gladly send you the info on the series crossover, although the new design he keeps for his mod customers only. (says it's his version of "11 herbs and spices"

). Give him an email.

Here's a pic of my temporary setup, I'm building boxes, complete with Cardas Patented posts, to fit it in later.

Sounds like you have a big room. IMHO, you should find a used pair 1.6s. Or buy the MMGs, but don't mod them , instead use them to trade up to 1.7s.

drphoto · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 12:23 am »

jk, sorry I sort of overlooked the fact that you were running a version of 'Gunned' MMGs.

I took only a hasty look at your thread on AA. Did you toss the original MDF baffle, or rather 'sandwich' it between your poplar wood frame?

jk@home · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 12:30 am »

The MDF was removed and replaced. Here's a link to the project/diy recipe that I followed, posted by inmate Davey:

http://orion.quicksytes.com/content/MMGframe.htm

I did mine a little differently:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=156044&highlight=hardwood+frames+deli+style

jk@home · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 12:57 am »

Also if you don't want to mess with the new frame thing, some folks have done the "Razor" mod, which is applying Cascade VMAX onto the MDF, with similar results.

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=155318&highlight=Razor&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Damp%26searchtext%3DAural%2BThrills%2B300B%2B

I applied the stuff to the pole pieces (between the holes) on my drivers. Total PITA to do, but definably works as advertised.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 01:22 am »

Also having had a lot of magnepans over the years (Still have 1.6's), all of the magnepans are really great inexpensive speakers that really need a high quality, high power amp to give their best performance. If you don't have an amplifier capable of a lot of current delivery, I'd pass, they won't give the magic with a budget amp.

drphoto · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 12:41 pm »

I've got Odyssey Stratos Monos, which are supposed to deliver good current.

drphoto · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 01:55 pm »

I'm starting to smell a project in my future! All my reading about these mods are getting me fired up to come home to planar land.

Interesting, if I read the comments on the Gunn website correctly, the modded 1.6 doesn't necessarily sound bigger, but has more resolution......and many actually prefer the MMG. Again, w/ my sub set up, low bass should be a non issue.

Thanks JK for your post, both here and over at the 'other' site.

I'm starting to hate you guys. I was pretty happy w/ my Merlins.

jk@home · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 04:27 pm »

The only other issue I can think of, which you may already be aware of, is the small sweet spot of the MMGs.

It's not an issue for me because my listening room is dedicated, with only one chair. But the dipole sound is so pronounced, the sound stage pretty much disappears, when you leave this spot. That's how it is at least in my system, which may also be due to the fact that the room is small, and I don't have room treatments (yet, but will soon

).

ajzepp · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 11:38 pm »

Quote from: TONEPUB on 27 Nov 2010, 01:22 am

Also having had a lot of magnepans over the years (Still have 1.6's), all of the magnepans are really great inexpensive speakers that really need a high quality, high power amp to give their best performance. If you don't have an amplifier capable of a lot of current delivery, I'd pass, they won't give the magic with a budget amp.

I totally agree. This is partly why I think some people think Maggies are less dynamic than they really are. I have never had that problem, but I've also always had plenty of clean power on tap to get the Maggies to shine. Right now I have my 3.6s actively biamped with a couple of Butler amps, and these things are dynamic as hell.