New 4B SST² Amp failing!

qscott · « **on:** 25 Nov 2010, 03:43 am »

Hi Everyone,

My new Bryston 4B SST² Amp is failing!

I brought all the Bryston components new about 5mths ago:
BR2
BCD-1
BDA-1
BP 26 + MPS-2
4B SST² (with new Capacitors)
PMC PB1i

Everything was running beautifully with the external 12v power up option wired up, when the 4B just died.
I tried a number of things to get life back into it, different power cables, wall sockets and nothing.
I spoke to Harry in the Syntec Service Dept based in Sydney (they are the Australian distributors for Bryston) and he advised me of the correct power up sequence which I tried with no success. So off the 4B went to the local Service Agent Technical Workshops in Melbourne for repair.
On inspection they told me there was a fault with the Power Supply PCB which they replaced with a new one. So got it home and wired it back in to the system and everything seems to be fine.

About 5 days later the 4B died again, no lights, no noise, nothing!
I spoke to my dealer and he raised the alarm with Harry from Syntec who then spoke to the guys at Technical Workshop and advised them I’d be dropping off the 4B for a second repair. I have a 4B SST that has never missed a beat (no pun intended) so not a happy camper that the new 4B has had all these issues.

On a side note my MPS-2 had a blown fuse in the first week, BCD-1 had a faulty laser which had to be replaced (sent back to Sydney) and the backlight on my BR2 (never worked also back to Sydney) had to be replaced as well.

Not a great start for my Bryston experience!

I spoke to a friend who just brought a new 4B a couple of weeks ago who also had his amp die on him. He took it back to the shop and they had no spare fuses so ended up taking their floor demo home as he had a dinner party that weekend. I believe his 4B has gone back to Syntec for repairs as well.

This is very surprising given that each 4B unit is run in at Bryston before shipping and they are normally bullet proof. Not sure if there’s a faulty batch of PCB going around but thought I’d raise it here to see if James or anyone else could shed some light on my dilemmas?

Thanks,
Q

PS: I understand that we are dealing with an electronic device but to have these types of experiences is very strange.

VOLKS · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 04:21 am »

Wow....looks like Down Under is getting all the Lemons

qscott · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 05:15 am »

Hope not Volks!

Maybe the slow boat ride over upsets them

James what do you think?

James Tanner · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 12:16 pm »

I think this is serious and I am looking into it!

james

qscott · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 12:40 pm »

Thanks for looking into this James.

Little bit more info that may help.

BCD-1 Ser: BCD1-001413 (Laser has been replaced)
BDA-1 Ser: BDA1-000717 (Working perfectly)
BP 26 - Where do I find this serial number? (Working perfectly)
MPS-2 Ser: MPS2-001160 (Fuse blown once)
4B SST² Ser: 4BSSTr2-005093 (1st fault Power Supply PCB replaced, 2nd fault has not been diagnosed - currently dead dropping off to Service Agent next week)

Cheers,
Q

James Tanner · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 03:14 pm »

Hi Q,

I have emailed our distributor in Australia to get details - I assume it will be Monday before I get any feedback.

james

Napalm · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 03:19 pm »

How did you stack them, for your location they should be upside down, otherwise they get confused....

JohnR · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 03:39 pm »

You might want to just check your mains voltage - I've measured down to 217V in the evenings at my place. I hear others are quite high. Long shot, but it might be worth a check...

larevoj · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 01:35 pm »

Mate, I am sure Bryston will make it right for you.

HooStat · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 03:32 pm »

I have to say, I feel a little better now. I got a new 4BSST2 a few weeks ago, but it was used in shows and is actually from May production if I remember correctly. I plugged it in, and made sure the switches were correct on the back. And I got nothing when I turned on the power manually on the front. I spent about 20 minutes trying to flip switches to see if I was somehow missing something. I had even emailed my dealer that it was DOA (dead on arrival). He thought I was crazy (but was very helpful and professional -- I don't blame him; it is a very strange problem).

Then, I pulled the plug and put it back in. Nothing. I did it again, and the unit just turned on. Very strange. But now it works flawlessly. I only post this in case it helps someone, or it helps Bryston. It is entirely possible I was doing something wrong, but I don't think so. There are not that many ways to get this wrong.

sbright · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 03:58 am »

Hi all,

I am the friend mentioned in the original post.

I can echo the experience HooStat mentioned, a similar thing happened to me. I found it very spooky.

Quote from: HooStat on 26 Nov 2010, 03:32 pm

Then, I pulled the plug and put it back in. Nothing. I did it again, and the unit just turned on. Very strange.

I'm curious to understand what might cause this sort of behaviour. Any electrical engineers out there that can explain it?

For reference, the 4BSST2's serial number that had this issue is 005165.

I'd like to thank the Aussie retailer, distributor and Bryston for attending to this matter so promptly.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 05:28 am »

I got my 4B-SST2 in March or April, and when I first tried to turn it on it would NOT turn on.
It was not (at that time) hooked up to the BP-26 12V power supply turn on.
I tried flipping the back switch for remote turn on/ turned it off. back A/C switch, front panel A/C switch, pulling out and plugging in the A/C cord...
Several times and was beginning to get worried.. then the amp suddenly turned on when I pressed the front button.. Whoo Hoo!!!, FINALLY. And I have never had any trouble since.
I just wanted to mention this to let James Tanner know as it is what other folks have had happen also.
I would hazard a guess that it has something to do with the 12 auto turn on VS non- auto turn on, and the amp is set for auto turn on when it is shipped, (as that is probably how it is burned in) and it does not respond to non-auto turn on when set up due to some 'glitch'.
That is only a guess, but it is the only idea that makes sense.
PS since then I have connected the 12V remote turn on with no problems.

Napalm · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Nov 2010, 09:34 pm »

Quote from: HooStat on 26 Nov 2010, 03:32 pm

I got a new 4BSST2 a few weeks ago, but it was used in shows and is actually from May production if I remember correctly. I plugged it in, and made sure the switches were correct on the back. And I got nothing when I turned on the power manually on the front. I spent about 20 minutes trying to flip switches to see if I was somehow missing something. [...] Then, I pulled the plug and put it back in. Nothing. I did it again, and the unit just turned on. Very strange. But now it works flawlessly.

Same here, got mine in spring this year, did the same stuff except it took only a few tries.

At the time I

then decided there must have been some protection circuits that went on while the completely discharged capacitors inside were trying to draw an inordinate amount of current.

Nap.

niels · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Nov 2010, 12:31 am »

Heard that quite some Bryston amps had to have bias adjusted even though brand new.....

(By the way, had a very peculiar incident with my computer the other day, might be similar to the Bryston power problem mentioned here.
I shut the computer down, took off all cables and put it in a closet over night. The next day I took it out again, put all the cables back on, and nothing happened when I pressed the power button. Hmm, strange, took the frontplate off, checked the power botton, that was ok, changed powercable, flipped the 115/230 volt switch back and forth, I even posted a help note on a computer forum. I spent all day trying to find the culprit. No way I could power it up.
The next day I just gave up, brought it down to a computer retailer and asked if he could look at it, he came back after 15 seconds and asked what the problem was because it powered up right away. I just couldnt believe it, but thats typical me, born unlucky. Havent had a problem since.)

peterjpromnitz · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Nov 2010, 01:48 am »

Quote from: Napalm on 27 Nov 2010, 09:34 pm

Same here, got mine in spring this year, did the same stuff except it took only a few tries.

At the time I then decided there must have been some protection circuits that went on while the completely discharged capacitors inside were trying to draw an inordinate amount of current.

Nap.

Same thing happened to me - dealer installed new 4BSST2 and it wouldn't power up and it took about an hour of trying various combinations of settings, etc before it just decided to work. Has been faultless since. New 14BSST2 installed at same time had no problems.

Napalm · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Nov 2010, 04:06 am »

Gremlins!

qscott · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Nov 2010, 12:35 pm »

Hi Everyone,

I've just spoken to sbright this evening who picked up his new replacement 4B SST Sq amp and it too failed. (serial numbers where only 1 apart, another amp dead!)
Not good by any measure for sure, but I'm sure Bryston will put this very, very strange behaviour right.

I've just tried different power up procedures after speaking with sbright with the following results:

1. Live power cable. Front OFF, Rear OFF / Plugin live power plug, Rear ON, Front ON = Nothing (what I was recommended to do from importers)
2. Dead power cable. Front OFF, Rear OFF / Plugin dead power plug, ON power cable, Rear ON, Front ON = Nothing

I'm not aware of any other power up procedure for the 4B SST Sq?

This is very weird to say the least, but nice to know that I was not along with the power up issue. ( I did have issues turning the amp on when first got it but this was sorted once I wired up the 12v external power up)

To everyone reading this I'd just like to say that these are very strange failures for Bryston gear. I have a 4B SST that has worked perfectly for countless hours so I'm sure this is only a glitch with a very small number of units. I have every confidence that this will be resolved with Bryston and my dealer.

Cheers,
Q

joey116 · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Nov 2010, 01:05 pm »

My fairly new 4 and 6 SST Sq amps. had REALLY tight fitting plugs on the amp ends of the power cables, I remember one amp powering on, then quitting, I finally discovered that I had not pushed the plug in all the way........it took quite a bit of force........might be worth checking.

Napalm · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Nov 2010, 04:34 pm »

Quote from: sbright on 27 Nov 2010, 03:58 am

I'm curious to understand what might cause this sort of behaviour. Any electrical engineers out there that can explain it?

Since it affects units that were sitting unplugged for an extended time. My take is that there's a certain (group of) capacitor(s) that, when their residual charge goes under a certain threshold, will cause malfunction of the soft start circuit or will trip some protection circuit.

nap.

P.S. I would qualify this as a design issue that needs to be addressed.

Mag · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Nov 2010, 06:02 pm »

Quote from: Napalm on 28 Nov 2010, 04:06 am

Gremlins!

I don't have an issue with powering up, I just hit the On button of the power conditioner and everything comes on.

Occasionally with the BCD-1 I'll get a error code with certain disks. Something to do with the disk not being redbook & DRM resulting in a glitch. So I will power down the BCD-1 to clear the memory. I wait until I hear the speakers make the power down sound, then power back up. Sometimes though, the unit will power up by itself! I never touched the remote or the unit. This has happened several times which I have no logical explanation, 'cept gremlins.

I've had other unrelated poltergeist activity in my home in the past. So I think this is the cause and has nothing to do with the BCD-1. Though Gremlins prefer the superior electronics as it makes it much easier for them to manipulate.