World Championship Boxing

mjosef · « **on:** 21 Nov 2010, 04:52 am »

Rushed back home to catch the Boxing on HBO...having seen the last Nov. 09 match between Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez which was one helluva fight, I was all hungry for more action on tonight's rematch...and sure enough it started out at full-tilt, round one was a whole lotta hurt...then BAM! one punch and it was lights out for Paul Williams. he dropped like a ripe mango, straight down face onto the canvas. Unbelievable.

milliseconds after impact...

Goodnite..sleep well...

Well, at least my thirst for action was sorta offset by the replay of last week fight between Pacquiao vs. Antonio Margarito. Yeah, I am a cheapskate, I never buy PPV fights, I can wait a week to watch the replay. Pacquiao smelted Margarito into a butterknife. Talk about a beatdown.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 05:34 am »

I saw the first fight, also, but darn if I didn't fall asleep at the beginning of the rematch. The little bit I saw and based on the first fight I figuered the only chance Martinez had was to knock out Williams. I figuered his camp was working on that in training. Bingo.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 06:32 am »

I wonder if Pacquiao will have trouble finding people willing to fight him after that old fashioned ghetto beating he laid down!

He's now won in 8 weight classes, hasn't he? The guy's amazing.

mjosef · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 06:49 am »

Max Kellerman offered up Sergio Martinez as a likely opponent for The Pakman...I don't think so, that weight class is a bridge too far.
The only worthwhile fight for The Packman is Mayweather...once he stops running.

satfrat · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 10:15 am »

I think Williams might have been faking it. Hell his eyes were still wide open as he laid face planted into the canvas.

You just don't hardly see any more 1 punch knockouts where the fighter just drops face first. Both fighters were throwing left hooks at the same time but Sergio just beat him to the punch. Williams never knew what hit him.

Cheers,
Robin

mjosef · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 05:21 pm »

You mean like so..?

Its called mind/body disconnect

...your mind is saying get up get up, but the body doesn't respond...kinda like when one of your limbs go to 'sleep' from cut off of blood circulation.
In the slow motion replay, you could see the whole side of his face opposite to the punch elongated...I love HiDef.

satfrat · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 06:28 pm »

Quote from: mjosef on 21 Nov 2010, 05:21 pm

You mean like so..?

Its called mind/body disconnect ...your mind is saying get up get up, but the body doesn't respond...kinda like when one of your limbs go to 'sleep' from cut off of blood circulation.
In the slow motion replay, you could see the whole side of his face opposite to the punch elongated...I love HiDef.

It's definitely weird to see the guy faceplant his head into the canvas, with his head bouncing even, and the whole time his eyes are wide open.

HBO sure got some nice angles of those 2 trading left hooks, William's looping left that never got there and Martinez's compact direct left that did find it's mark. You could almost see it coming as the same exchange had happened a couple of times earlier in that round with Martinez beating Williams to the punch with those left hook exchanges. Williams was coninually leaving himself wide open everytime he threw a punch, and being cocky about it to boot.

Well I'm sure he'll have plenty of opportunities to see what hit him.

Cheers,
Robin

jackman · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 08:30 pm »

Wow, great performance by Martinez. I watched the replay and enjoyed it a lot, even though I'm a fan of Williams. Say what you want about the guy (Williams), at least he has never dodged anyone. The same can't be said of "Pretty Boy" Floyd. The only thing Floyd has never dodged is a microphone or TV camera.

I hate Mayweather because, like Roy Jones Jr., Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya before him, and so many others, he carefully picks his opponents and never manages to fight the best in the game. Then he proceeds to run his mouth about being the best "pound for pound". What a joke.

Pacquaio (sp?) is my favorite boxer at the moment because he will fight anyone. I believe many fighters have this mindset but dirtbags like Don King have fostered a phony environment built around the aura of an undefeated record. Boxers can dodge another fighter if he has a defeat on his record or, if you are Pretty Girl Floyd, you can insist on drug testing that is 100x more stringent than the boxing commissions require in order to dodge an opponent like Manny.

I would pay to see Manny give it to Floyd and I hope they fight soon. My fear is that Floyd is going to continue to fight tomato cans and hope that Manny gets punchy, injured or too old to put up a good fight. You know, like Sugar Ray did to Marvin Hagler. Leonard waited until Hagler went through wars with anyone who wanted to step into the ring, the best middleweights the world had to offer. The wars took their toll on Hagler's skills until he was soft enough for the cowardly Leonard to dance around the ring and steal his belt. I hope the same doesn't happen to Manny.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Nov 2010, 05:34 am »

I think you are exactly right about Mayweather, he's waiting for age to come into play, as a welterweight all he fought was jr. Weltereights and old guys over the hill.

As for Sergio, I'd like to see a rematch with Pavlik at super middle. I'm not sure he wants to move to that weight though. Pavlik was too weak at middle as he grew and is moving up.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Nov 2010, 08:19 am »

Quote from: jackman on 22 Nov 2010, 08:30 pm

Wow, great performance by Martinez. I watched the replay and enjoyed it a lot, even though I'm a fan of Williams. Say what you want about the guy (Williams), at least he has never dodged anyone. The same can't be said of "Pretty Boy" Floyd. The only thing Floyd has never dodged is a microphone or TV camera.

I hate Mayweather because, like Roy Jones Jr., Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya before him, and so many others, he carefully picks his opponents and never manages to fight the best in the game. Then he proceeds to run his mouth about being the best "pound for pound". What a joke.

Pacquaio (sp?) is my favorite boxer at the moment because he will fight anyone. I believe many fighters have this mindset but dirtbags like Don King have fostered a phony environment built around the aura of an undefeated record. Boxers can dodge another fighter if he has a defeat on his record or, if you are Pretty Girl Floyd, you can insist on drug testing that is 100x more stringent than the boxing commissions require in order to dodge an opponent like Manny.

I would pay to see Manny give it to Floyd and I hope they fight soon. My fear is that Floyd is going to continue to fight tomato cans and hope that Manny gets punchy, injured or too old to put up a good fight. You know, like Sugar Ray did to Marvin Hagler. Leonard waited until Hagler went through wars with anyone who wanted to step into the ring, the best middleweights the world had to offer. The wars took their toll on Hagler's skills until he was soft enough for the cowardly Leonard to dance around the ring and steal his belt. I hope the same doesn't happen to Manny.

Amen.

wendell · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Nov 2010, 08:47 am »

That Martinez punch that KO Williams was very reminiscent of Pacman KO Hatton when they last fought, both 2nd round KO's.

So much for B.Hopkins theory on slick, Black American style fighters. [urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhxrLiqsXSQ][/url]

jackman · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Nov 2010, 01:06 pm »

Quote from: wendell on 23 Nov 2010, 08:47 am

That Martinez punch that KO Williams was very reminiscent of Pacman KO Hatton when they last fought, both 2nd round KO's.

So much for B.Hopkins theory on slick, Black American style fighters. [urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhxrLiqsXSQ][/url]

Hopkins is a racist idiot, but I wouldn't be too quick to conclude slick fighters out, white, black or otherwise. Also, I wouldn't bet against Mayweather, even against Manny. Pacman has more heart and possibly equal speed but he has never faced anyone like Floyd. As much as I dislike Floyd, he is a tremendously skilled fighter and will be very hard to beat. Unlike the last coue guys he has fought, Floyd is too smart to stand and trade with Manny.

Also, I really don't think pro boxers at this level are afraid of any other fighters. They are afraid of losing and losing future fight money as a result bit I sincerely don't think world class fighters fear any other fighters.

Manny is so confident these days, I am afraid he will step up the ladder to fight bigger and bigger fighters. He has surprisingly taken his punching power to the higher weight classes (along with his speed). He takes these fights because there are bigger names and bigger paychecks at the higher classes. I just hope he doesn't get too dinged up before he fights Floyd.

Also, I feel bad about the Williams loss. He and Martinez are two guys noone wants to fight. They are too of the most dodged boxers in the game. Boxing needs more of these types of guys.

Rapt · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Nov 2010, 08:54 pm »

Quote from: fredgarvin on 23 Nov 2010, 05:34 am

I think you are exactly right about Mayweather, he's waiting for age to come into play, as a welterweight all he fought was jr. Weltereights and old guys over the hill.

As for Sergio, I'd like to see a rematch with Pavlik at super middle. I'm not sure he wants to move to that weight though. Pavlik was too weak at middle as he grew and is moving up.

I agree with you on Mayweather waiting, but I'm not sure why. In my opinion Marquez beat Pac Man twice and Mayweather made Marquez look "almost" amatuer. Marquez himself says that Mayweathers style is much more difficult then Pac's. I don't think that Pac would stand a chance with Mayweather.

The Martinez punch came from far back at the exact moment that Paul williams was setting up a shot of his own. He simply never saw it coming so he did get to set his feet and brace for it as he has a pretty good chin. I would not mind seeing a rubber match as I loved the first fight and would love to see a third.

jackman · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Nov 2010, 10:00 pm »

There is only one reason Mayweather would avoid Manny, he doesn't think he can beat him. Think about it, it's the biggest money fight he can get and Manny already agreed to the terms. In the meantime, Manny's stock has continued to rise and he has become one of the biggest names in the game (rightfully so). The fight would be very exciting because both fighters are colorful personalities at the top of their respected games (at least in the case of Pacquaio).

Regarding Marquez, I wouldn't put too much stock in what he says. Pacquaio is a much stronger and sharply skilled fighter since he fought Marquez. If they fought again, Marquez wouldn't last a round. He looks like a shot fighter, while Manny continues to look stronger and sharper every fight. I've never seen a fighter carry his punch and skills up so many weight classes. Don't get me wrong, I have no idea who would win if Manny and Floyd fought but it would pay my $50 to find out.

Lastly, I agree 100% regarding that left hook that dropped Williams. You know the saying, the most dangerous punch is the one you don't see. He never saw it and paid the price. Either way, I'd like to see a rubber match and would not bet against Williams. He is a huge talent and I believe he would easily beat guys like Pavlik (I also think Sergio would dust off Pavlik again in a rematch). It sucks these guys have to fight each other. They can't find anyone else willing to fight them at the moment.

Rapt · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Nov 2010, 02:02 am »

Quote from: jackman on 23 Nov 2010, 10:00 pm

There is only one reason Mayweather would avoid Manny, he doesn't think he can beat him. Think about it, it's the biggest money fight he can get and Manny already agreed to the terms. In the meantime, Manny's stock has continued to rise and he has become one of the biggest names in the game (rightfully so). The fight would be very exciting because both fighters are colorful personalities at the top of their respected games (at least in the case of Pacquaio).

Regarding Marquez, I wouldn't put too much stock in what he says. Pacquaio is a much stronger and sharply skilled fighter since he fought Marquez. If they fought again, Marquez wouldn't last a round. He looks like a shot fighter, while Manny continues to look stronger and sharper every fight. I've never seen a fighter carry his punch and skills up so many weight classes. Don't get me wrong, I have no idea who would win if Manny and Floyd fought but it would pay my $50 to find out.

Lastly, I agree 100% regarding that left hook that dropped Williams. You know the saying, the most dangerous punch is the one you don't see. He never saw it and paid the price. Either way, I'd like to see a rubber match and would not bet against Williams. He is a huge talent and I believe he would easily beat guys like Pavlik (I also think Sergio would dust off Pavlik again in a rematch). It sucks these guys have to fight each other. They can't find anyone else willing to fight them at the moment.

Jackman,

Looks like for the most part we agree

I still think Mayweather wins and in good fashion, but that is just my opinion. As good as his offense is I relish his defensive style, that gives most fighter fits. here is just a bit I found on you tube that I enjoyed watching, it is stuff like this that can be missed in a live event. I am far from a Mayweather fanboy, but man this kind of defense seems to be pure natural talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK9en6g9JTQ

edit: just watched Pacquiao vs delahoya now i'm not so sure

, guess why this may be fight of the decade

jackman · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Nov 2010, 03:45 am »

Quote from: Rapt on 24 Nov 2010, 02:02 am

Jackman,

Looks like for the most part we agree I still think Mayweather wins and in good fashion, but that is just my opinion. As good as his offense is I relish his defensive style, that gives most fighter fits. here is just a bit I found on you tube that I enjoyed watching, it is stuff like this that can be missed in a live event. I am far from a Mayweather fanboy, but man this kind of defense seems to be pure natural talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK9en6g9JTQ
Part II:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZaqKJaxYo&NR=1

edit: just watched Pacquiao vs delahoya now i'm not so sure , guess why this may be fight of the decade

I'm not sure about fight of the decade but I think it will be very entertaining. The fact that you can make a case for either guy is evidence. Manny has improved so much over the years. He has gone from a wild swinging, one dimensional fighter to an explosive, accurate puncher with great footwork and excellent boxing skills. Freddie Roach has done an amazing job with Manny and Pacquaio has been a great student. Floyd came out of the womb a slick, smart punching machine with blinding speed and brilliant understanding of boxing. These two guys are a study in contrasts that make this fight interesting on so many levels.

Here is a clip of Floyd training with one of my all-time favorite fighters, Paulie Spadafora. Paulie was an up and coming star with THE best defense in the Jr. Welterweight ranks. He was (still is actually) undefeated and was a belt holder in the Lightweight class. I won't get into why I am amazed by Paulie's defensive abilities (and overall boxing abilities) because I don't want to divert from this thread. I will only say that this style of defense is the most difficult to learn but the most effective once you master it. He served time in jail for a very bad crime he committed and is trying to make a comeback. At 35 years old it will not be easy but I hope he makes it because he is a joy to watch fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKU9PzLwEIM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZaqKJaxYo&NR=1

Rapt · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 12:08 am »

Quote from: jackman on 24 Nov 2010, 03:45 am

I'm not sure about fight of the decade but I think it will be very entertaining. The fact that you can make a case for either guy is evidence. Manny has improved so much over the years. He has gone from a wild swinging, one dimensional fighter to an explosive, accurate puncher with great footwork and excellent boxing skills. Freddie Roach has done an amazing job with Manny and Pacquaio has been a great student. Floyd came out of the womb a slick, smart punching machine with blinding speed and brilliant understanding of boxing. These two guys are a study in contrasts that make this fight interesting on so many levels.

Here is a clip of Floyd training with one of my all-time favorite fighters, Paulie Spadafora. Paulie was an up and coming star with THE best defense in the Jr. Welterweight ranks. He was (still is actually) undefeated and was a belt holder in the Lightweight class. I won't get into why I am amazed by Paulie's defensive abilities (and overall boxing abilities) because I don't want to divert from this thread. I will only say that this style of defense is the most difficult to learn but the most effective once you master it. He served time in jail for a very bad crime he committed and is trying to make a comeback. At 35 years old it will not be easy but I hope he makes it because he is a joy to watch fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKU9PzLwEIM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZaqKJaxYo&NR=1

I've read that sparring session was the beginning of Mayweather's training and near the end for Spadafora, but who knows. I love Spadafora's style and defence. It is a shame when good fighters get caught up in crimes.. A few other great prospects come to mind.. The likes of Ike Ibeabuchi and Edwin Valero amongst others..

fredgarvin · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 02:45 am »

Pavlik, at 6'2 and a half can't make 160 anymore. I'd like to see Sergio move up and do a rematch, but that might be too heavy for his frame. Pavlik-Williams would be a great fight at 168, Williams has a hard time with hard puncher/boxers that come at him. I like Pavlik in that one. Oh, I thought Sergio won the first fight with Williams. So did a lot of people. Keep in mind that Williams refused a fight with Pavlik to fight Sergio the first
time.
I wouls have a lot more respect for Mayweather if he hadn't ducked every tough guy in his division when he was champ. Margarito, Cotto etc.

mjosef · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 03:20 am »

This Saturday 27th is a triple header...Marquez vs. Katsidis, Berto vs. Freddie Hernandez and a lightweight bout.
I think Berto would be a good contender for Pacquiao, he is a strong and fast puncher but marketing forces may get in the way.

I also thought Sergio edged Williams in their first fight. So the knockout in the second fight felt like poetic justice. I also frowned on the slight to Sergio in the introduction, the belt holder should enter last.

Rapt · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 05:33 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 25 Nov 2010, 03:20 am

This Saturday 27th is a triple header...Marquez vs. Katsidis, Berto vs. Freddie Hernandez and a lightweight bout.
I think Berto would be a good contender for Pacquiao, he is a strong and fast puncher but marketing forces may get in the way.

I also thought Sergio edged Williams in their first fight. So the knockout in the second fight felt like poetic justice. I also frowned on the slight to Sergio in the introduction, the belt holder should enter last.

Yes, I think you are correct and my reasoning for a 3rd fight was incorrect as I also think that Sergio won the first fight..So it was poetic justic. I was not thinking past the latest match.

the Katsidis vs Marquez fight should be very good. As far as the Berto fight will this be good as I am unfamiliar with Hernandez, although Hernandez seems to have a good record.

EDIT: although you guys probably know that: His brother, champion jockey Stathi Katsidis, died suddenly in his Brisbane home on October 19. The cause of death is yet to be determined.

Katsidis has dedicated this match to his brother. RIP Stathi.