Who do you like on trumpet?

etcarroll · « **Reply #120 on:** 14 May 2011, 01:56 am »

Seriously guys, time to say you agree to disagree and move on before mods send this thread to atomic dustbin, which would piss me off as I've learned a few things from it.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #121 on:** 14 May 2011, 02:01 am »

Quote from: neobop on 13 May 2011, 11:30 pm

........... speak to your soul ............

This is the first I've read of this thread, and have no plans of going back to read the last _# pages, but these few words somehow stood out to me.

This is what it's all about. As far as I'm concerned. I couldn't give a shit less if somebody is "technically correct". The music I enjoy (the music that speaks to my soul) isn't judged on it's technical merits on American Idol.

Carry on with the thread.
Bob

EDIT: "Feeling of Jazz" is what I like on trumpet.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #122 on:** 14 May 2011, 02:02 am »

Blu- This isn't a Neo parade. If it's anybody's parade it's yours. Miles could have chosen to play hot, IMO, like Dizzy, but for some reason, he invented his own approach which came to be called cool school, as I'm sure you know. Probably cause he was an egomaniac with ambition. Not because he couldn't play with fire or had a poor work ethic. And probably cause it got him laid a lot. Chet Baker got laid a lot, also. So did Chico Hamilton. Well, he made it on his own terms and made some fine and pretty sounds in the process to these ears and sensibility. I submit he played what and how he wanted it. That independence and his arrogance got him a lot of resentment. I think Neo has a pretty good handle on this. And he's very knowledgable about this music we dig. I wouldn't be dissing him, buckwheat, and I wouldn't be dissing you either

. It's good to have diverse opinions and I think you cool, man. You, too, Rich.

Good post, Bobby.

richidoo · « **Reply #123 on:** 14 May 2011, 03:57 am »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 13 May 2011, 05:58 pm

Rich- Miles was a lazy trumpet player? And how is that assessed exactly? Maybe he just wanted his own 'voice' or had personal ideas about melody and it's value, who knows precisely, and maybe his playing is the way he wanted it and not due to some deficiency or another. If he was hated it was probably for his ego, not his ability.

"When you haven't practiced for a day, you know it. When you haven't practiced for two days, everybody knows it." - ancient trumpeters parable

Miles idolized Dizzy, but could never come close to his technique. As soon as he could get away with it he stopped trying. By the late 50s he was a stylist, not a trumpet virtuoso, and he was very successful. His thing was being the star and leading the band, and emitting a strong personal presence live and on record. After Bird he didn't need to practice until he got with Herbie, when his playing advanced again, but once he learned the tunes that was it. There was never any clever fingering or trumpet innovation from Miles. But he would practice chops before he had to play for Dizzy, even into the 80s.

richidoo · « **Reply #124 on:** 14 May 2011, 04:13 am »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 13 May 2011, 06:11 pm

And you do have Live in Europe and Live in Tokyo, right? No fire? Things heated up considerably when Miles added Tony Williams to the group as did Miles, himself. Perhaps there is more to his ability than he's being given credit for.

It's not trumpet fire. It is Miles. It is high loud notes that crack and split with no control, it is pure style. He never claimed to be a great trumpeter. He gave Dorham and Dizzy their due and did his own stylistic thing. Miles is the one with the mansions in NY and beach houses in Malibu and Ferarris and Maseratis.

neobop · « **Reply #125 on:** 14 May 2011, 04:25 am »

Blutto,
Absolutely no animosity here. No bomb shelter required. I'm just making a point, expressing my point of view. We're talking about dead guys and they can't respond or comment about criticism. I understand your point of view. I felt much the same way when I was young and playing trumpet in a big band setting. But at the same time I really dug Kind of Blue, and realized the distinctions I tried to point out.

Maynard Ferguson was an idol. Today I almost never listen to him. The stuff he did in the early '60s is the only things of his I think are worth listening to. That's my values, maybe not yours or Richies. I don't expect you guys to agree. On the other hand, Miles' contribution is undeniable. He changed the music, in more ways than one. That's history man. Bird and a few other cats invented bop, that's history too. Ask yourself this, where would we be today if it wasn't for ______. Bird, Miles and Trane are at the top of my list. The most important players who ever lived. That's not just my list. Can you dig it?
neo

richidoo · « **Reply #126 on:** 14 May 2011, 05:18 am »

Try Maynard's work with Kenton and his EmArcy recordings from the 50s, I think you'll like that neo...

Not so easy to find anymore, since Creative World is gone, the old stuff is not on CDs. You must have Trumpet Rhapsody?

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #127 on:** 14 May 2011, 05:37 am »

Quote from: richidoo on 14 May 2011, 04:13 am

It's not trumpet fire. It is Miles. It is high loud notes that crack and split with no control, it is pure style. He never claimed to be a great trumpeter. He gave Dorham and Dizzy their due and did his own stylistic thing. Miles is the one with the mansions in NY and beach houses in Malibu and Ferarris and Maseratis.

I like his style, then, and I'm a KD fan, also. Yep, Columbia dished some bread for Miles. I'm gonna re-visit Europe and Tokyo and listen for this and that. I rather like little spontaneous things in jazz, tho, like the squeek of a saxist's reed, for example. And I like jazz because it IS improvisation and the imperfections that implies to me.

konut · « **Reply #128 on:** 14 May 2011, 05:57 am »

I like Don Ellis. How can you not like a guy who plays a 4 valve trumpet.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oNyLAmUysskJ:wn.com/Don_Ellis_Big_Band+%22don+ellis%22+racist&cd=26&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

richidoo · « **Reply #129 on:** 14 May 2011, 06:07 am »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 14 May 2011, 05:37 am

I like his style, then, and I'm a KD fan, also. Yep, Columbia dished some bread for Miles. I'm gonna re-visit Europe and Tokyo and listen for this and that. I rather like little spontaneous things in jazz, tho, like the squeek of a saxist's reed, for example. And I like jazz because it IS improvisation and the imperfections that implies to me.

Love KD!!!!
I like Miles style too.

I listen to the 50s recordings most, but I also love the records with Wayne. I like the pop stuff from 80s also, like Decoy. I saw him only once, at Live Aid concert at Giant's stadium, from about a mile away. I think he dug playing that gig with the biggest pop stars.

mjosef · « **Reply #130 on:** 14 May 2011, 06:12 am »

As I see it/ and hear it...Miles playing was not about the notes per se, but the "feeling" he wished to convey... a task I think he did quite successfully. No other trumpeter could "squeeze" out a feeling like he did with just a single note, smeary or otherwise. Just one blast, and you know its Miles. That I would say is a unique thing to achieve on any instrument. But what do I know, I am no musician, nor authority.

I am with Lester Bowie when he said the Miles just changed the sound of the trumpet by playing across the scales, sideways...instead up and down the scales like every other trumpeter that came before him.

Leadfeathers · « **Reply #131 on:** 14 May 2011, 06:44 am »

Quote from: martyo on 5 Nov 2010, 11:26 pm

I'm newer to jazz and right now my favorite new(old) album is Jim Hall's Concierto. I at least listen to the title cut every session. I couldn't remember the trumpet player and wanted to mention him here. I go look and it's Chet Baker. No wonder........
Yes. That whole cut, Concierto, they play sooo cool and smooth but with an incredible amount of feeling.

I just found this thread, and tardy as I am, wanted to second this post from the first page. I decided just a few weeks ago that I wanted to add some pieces from some of the older guys I'd heard of for years but whose work I hadn't heard much of. Chet Baker came to mind and an E-bay search turned up a few LP's of his, or that he played on.
I was the high bidder (@$4.25!) for Jim Hall's Concierto, and it instantly became one of those special favorites that I must hear fairly regularly. (Stolen Moments by Oliver Nelson, with Freddie Hubbard on trumpet is another) A remarkably moody piece, strengthened by each solo - Paul Desmond, Chet, Jim Hall. And the first I'd heard of pianist Roland Hanna.
Okay, sorry for the interruption.....I'll head to the Jazz Circle home page to see if there is a thread on Special Songs You Must Hear Frequently now.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #132 on:** 14 May 2011, 10:01 am »

Mjosef- How in bleedin tarnation did I not say that!
Rich- You and Mj get to hang much? I had a TU 717 once. Wonder what the heck I did with it.
Leadfeathers- I feel your enthusiasm and just want to encourage you

.

neobop · « **Reply #133 on:** 14 May 2011, 11:16 am »

Greetings Chief Leadfeathers,
There are tunes that are played over and over that become standards. Like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUjf5pPNmiI&feature=fvsr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6mfWun73vI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJf0a0zhfzI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag02tT7f8aQ&feature=related

Just keep listening.
neo

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #134 on:** 14 May 2011, 11:52 am »

Blu- You got 10,000 recordings and most of em are jazz? You are in the right place, my son. Welcome.

etcarroll · « **Reply #135 on:** 14 May 2011, 01:51 pm »

Quote from: Leadfeathers on 14 May 2011, 06:44 am

<snip>
I was the high bidder (@$4.25!) for Jim Hall's Concierto, and it instantly became one of those special favorites that I must hear fairly regularly. (Stolen Moments by Oliver Nelson, with Freddie Hubbard on trumpet is another) A remarkably moody piece, strengthened by each solo - Paul Desmond, Chet, Jim Hall. <snip>

I love that version of 'Stolen Moments', time to throw Concierto on the tt with the morning coffee.

blutto · « **Reply #136 on:** 14 May 2011, 02:13 pm »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 14 May 2011, 11:52 am

Blu- You got 10,000 recordings and most of em are jazz? You are in the right place, my son. Welcome.

...jeez...10,000 jazz recording would great but sadly that is not the case...my total stash is approximately 10,000, of which about 45 ft are jazz ( I've long stopped counting the pile I now just measure it, hence the ft thing....)...and the crazy thing is there are collections in this town that make mine look like an afterthought...you know those collections you would pay money just to look at...and there was also a college radio station that had the second largest record recollection in this country ( and by becoming a member, which was real easy, you had access to about 15,000 jazz records...and it was a real solid collection...and for a while I was the station director of jazz programming ....gawd I spent so much time there...doing the required pile of paperwork but mitigating that awful task by listening to all that jazz ...)

....and for a long time this town was blessed with an amazing family run audio/music store and its presence nurtured a very vibrant music loving community that really dug high end audio...the store is sadly gone and the culture that revolved around it has kinda disappeared...while it was going strong, this culture was a music/audio lovers dream...we would meet regularly, play our collections, argue vociferously, expand our understanding of the jazz catalog and as result build really solid collections with very little filler....

...would be interesting to find out if my experience is similar to others on this forum...

Cheers

blutto

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #137 on:** 14 May 2011, 03:27 pm »

That's about the most idyllic account of a place that I've ever heard. You are on Earth? Where are you, dude?

blutto · « **Reply #138 on:** 15 May 2011, 01:46 am »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 14 May 2011, 03:27 pm

That's about the most idyllic account of a place that I've ever heard. You are on Earth? Where are you, dude?

...a small college town in Eastern Canada...yes it was magic....and within three blocks of the store I spoke of earlier were four other stores that carried high end stereo components....and next to that store was a used record store, that I swear to gawd, was a travel destination for record collectors on vacation....and this place became a goldmine once digital hit because early converts just dumped their collections wholesale....and the situation in Toronto was even crazier....cash spoke volumes in used record stores because the input was so high the stores couldn't process everything....so lots of stuff was left on consignment and if you were willing to pile thru boxes in the warehouse part of the stores, records were available for $2 a pop....I had a lot of work in Toronto at that time and more often than not I'd come home with a box or two of records ( and real primo stuff that I had already researched during my time at the radio station by listening to it )...my collection exploded!!!!...

....and then there was my trips to Detroit and Car City Records....in two trips I wiped out my a-list...98 records the first time and 149 the second...mostly mint Japanese pressings at $6 a pop...but as I drove home the realization dawned on me that this was not all good...the fun of the chase was over and while I have a stash of some 1000 pieces I have yet to play I am pining for that culture that has now largely disappeared ( except for the taps on a keyboard on forums like this )...

...so the moral of the story is...be careful what you wish for...because the old days, the discoveries, the discussions and groupings of crazed fanatics are gone ...damn it!....the why and how of that disappearance is something I would love to discuss...maybe a new thread is needed....because we as a hobby are kinda wilting away on the vine....and that is really sad because this hobby can be so much fun....

Cheers

blutto

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #139 on:** 15 May 2011, 08:17 am »

I was trying to imagine and I came up with Morristown (NJ), Berkeley, or Peyton Place (just kidding on that one). Sounds like a ball. Bet you do miss it. Ever thought of starting a music or audio club yourself? I belong to The Houston Audio Society and they, I say they because I have not hosted a meet myself, have monthly meetings* to listen to music and audition stuff, but have spent several afternoons in individual members' abodes to listen and talk. And they in mine. Cheers.

*Fred300b, a member here, and his wife, Linda, are fabulous hosts. They could have a door charge they treat everybody so good, but they don't.

BTW, the short time I've spent in eastern Canada was beautiful. For big cities on this continent, I think Montreal is one of the most interesting.