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Yo Jimbo,You might have to hock your tweeters for this one. Check out the review near the bottom. The first one is by R. E McBride. The guy knows what he's talking about. I wonder if it's Chris. http://www.amazon.com/May-Dance-Terumasa-Hino/dp/B000006M1R/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1305213303&sr=1-9http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_13?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=terumasa+hino&sprefix=terumasa+hinoneo
I don't doubt it. Wynton is probably the player most disliked by other musicians. I think it's deserved. He's got formidable classical chops, but usually sounds like a machine. He collaborated with Ken Burns on that documentary and inflated his own importance while ignoring others considered of greater importance. Keith Jarrett: "I've never heard anything Wynton played sound like it meant anything at all. Wynton has no voice and no presence. His music sounds like a talented high-school trumpet player to me."Miles Davis when they first met - "So you're the police, huh?" Later he said that Wynton was unoriginal and, "Wynton thinks playing music is about blowing people up on stage." In 1986 Miles was playing a gig in Vancouver and Wynton walked on. This might have been instigated by a Columbia Records employee. They said it was Wynton's birthday or something. Miles stopped the show and threw Wynton off the stage. Miles said, "Wynton can't play the kind of shit we were playing", and twice told Marsalis "Get the f*-k off." Pierre Sprey, president of Mapleshade Records summed it up like this: "When Marsalis was nineteen, he was a fine jazz trumpeter...But he was getting his tail beat off every night in Art Blakey's band. I don't think he could keep up. And finally he retreated to safe waters. He's a good classical trumpeter and thus he sees jazz as being a classical music. He has no clue what's going on now."I think that sums it up nicely. neoPS In defense of Wynton, the man can play. I have a couple of Blakey albums with Wynton and he sounds great. I also like some of his stuff from the '80s. As to the rest, you can make up your own mind.
Blutto- You sound to me like a person who hasn't heard much Miles. Everybody knows he can play a ballad, but he can lay down some blistering solos, too, as on Miles in Europe and Miles in Tokyo. Eldridge must have said that before those last two came out or possibly because he was jealous of Miles' career. Personally, I think Miles peaked in the 60's, pre Bitches Brew, but that's just me.The only thing that Wynton was on that I've heard to include his own releases that is brilliant to me is Keystone 3.Lcrim- I don't know that much about Hackett, but Jackie Gleason wrote some beautiful, beautiful pieces. Bless your Dad.
...in an ideal world I would like to live by the credo that if you can't say anything nice about someone don't say anything but if the door is open to lay down some criticism I guess I'll take the opportunity and run with it......first off I agree with the above assessment...whether my view is informed by Wynton's idiotic slagging of Louis Armstrong or his playing is difficult to say...but I see Wynton as a mediocre player who has played the media game very very well...and a major part of his media persona is built on the massive splash he made with his recording of the Mozart horn concertos...it seems this recording always comes up still in discussions about Wynton...and yes that recording was a huge hit and to jazz fans who really don't know classical it seems to give the man this weird gravitas......the problem with that recording is that as with his jazz recordings it is really not even close to top drawer...and the top drawer title goes to a gentleman named Dennis Brain who did an absolutely amazing job with those self-same Mozart horn concertos...find below a quote from AMG about Brain..Few instrumentalists of the twenieth century did more to establish a solo role for an instrument than Dennis Brain. By age 36, he had helped restore the four Mozart and two Strauss horn concertos to the repertory, inspired Hindemith, Britten, and others to write for his instrument, and generally set the standard for twentieth century horn soloists. ....this guy is amazing and if you like trumpet and want to expand your collection into the realm of classical music this guy is your perfect introduction...Cheersblutto...and as long as I am in a slagging mode I will this by saying that Wynton is simply following the path blazed by Miles Davis....as in, an OK player, who was real smart and played the PR game perfectly ( he was, after-all, the product of the Columbia media juggernaut that when they initially signed Miles were desperate for sales...they had totally missed the boat on rock'n'roll and were more or less dead in the water...) and as an arranger of music and ensembles was a genius....but as a player he was no Clifford Brown...his playing, as so perfectly described by Roy Eldridge, was mouse music...I will now retreat to my bomb shelter and await the inevitable incoming....
Blutto,Thanks for your perspective on Wynton. I don't listen to much classical music and I really don't care. It's not that I'm anti-classical, I listen to what I like. A lot of classical is too long and boring. I'm more into the composition, not 20 different interpretations of the same tired thing. I think your perspective about Miles is wrong for the same reason as Wynton's. Although most jazz musicians are classically trained, the technical aspects are integrated with the creative aspect. This fact eludes most people evaluating from a classical point of view, and most classical musicians can't play jazz worth a damn. The only real innovative skill required by a classical musician is interpretive. Many of them can't improvise or write good tune. Many of them probably have no desire to. The ones who cross over into jazz invariably suck. It doesn't matter whether it's Marsalis or Bolling. It comes out as pseudo jazz, like a polyester suit compared to worsted wool.Miles is an icon in jazz history because of what he contributed creatively. The bands he led and the music that came out of him and those bands, was original, not an interpretation of something written 300 years ago. Technical prowess only goes so far. I think it's a mistake to evaluate a jazz player on that basis alone. Compare Miles to Beethoven, Brahms or Stockhausen, not some musician who only plays. Eldridge came out of a different era (early '30s) and was a swing player. He was critical of technical aspects, and probably jealous. Eldridge complained about Anita O'day being more popular than him, when he was in Gene Krupa's band, so what? Ba da da deda dada daaaa, dooo wa. neo
I agree strongly with blutto. Miles was a lazy trumpeter but a genius artist. His success as a terrible trumpeter killed the art of jazz trumpet. He used his big name inherited from Bird and his messianic self image to attract the best young artists, who made great art for him to take credit. He deserves the credit just as any band leader does. But not as a trumpeter. He proved that it was not necessary to be a trumpet virtuoso to be successful. Lee and Freddie were the rightful heirs but both were too sick to defend the trumpet when it needed it. Marsalis as a jazz artist was a fabrication. Jazz Hope and Change from 1980, courtesy Herbie Hancock, George Butler and Ed Arendell. James Williams tried to teach him to play jazz, but there was only so much he could do in such a short time before the ego exploded and he learned how well the bullshit worked.
...do you think its safe to crawl out of the bunker???...Cheersblutto
Rich- Miles was a lazy trumpet player? And how is that assessed exactly? Maybe he just wanted his own 'voice' or had personal ideas about melody and it's value, who knows precisely, and maybe his playing is the way he wanted it and not due to some deficiency or another. If he was hated it was probably for his ego, not his ability.
And you do have Live in Europe and Live in Tokyo, right? No fire? Things heated up considerably when Miles added Tony Williams to the group as did Miles, himself. Perhaps there is more to his ability than he's being given credit for.
Every criticism of Miles I've just read is based on technical abilities. What's that bullshit analogy with cars about, creative ability?All I'm saying is give the man the credit he deserves. Guys who play jazz these days play it because that's what they're into. It's not a good career move as far as money is concerned. Ever since the '50s when rock started happening, and especially during the '60s and '70s it's been an uphill battle for a jazz player to make a living. It used to be 13 yr old who bought most of the records. Today, who knows? They probably make next to nothing on recordings with people getting it for free over the net. When guys were coming up in those days, they got a reputation basically in one of two ways. Play in the Messengers or in the Miles Davis band. If you got one of those gigs, that was your break, an opportunity to be somebody. Art had a whole lot more people go through his bands than Miles. Art always played straight up hard bop. If you could cut it, you'd get some exposure and become a graduate of one of the two real schools of jazz. It wasn't so easy to get a gig in Miles band, nearly impossible. Miles band was more like a creative collective with a genius at the helm. Why do you think Trane stayed on long after it was time for him to do his own thing, because they were dope buddies? I don't know, but I kind of doubt it. Who brought the whole modal thing to the front and had the biggest selling jazz album of all time? Who changed the sound of the horn?I think you guys lack a sense of history. Maybe Miles wasn't the greatest technically. I never heard him triple tongue like Wynton can, but that's not what it's about. Miles can speak to your soul, just like Trane could, only in a different voice. When the band started going in different directions, Miles could bring it back together with a wave of his hand or a few notes on his horn. His solos talk to me.When Miles first came up in the '40s he was just a kid and couldn't keep up. Dizzy took him under his wing and taught him how to play. New York was the big time. Miles was from St Louis and it mush have been scary. Keeping up with Bird was no easy task for a kid. Miles hung in there and kept getting better and better. How did he get a gig with Bird in the first place, because Dizzy recommended him? They must have seen something in that kid from St Louis. Thank God they did. neo bopdaddy
