Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build

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Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #40 on: 15 Sep 2010, 01:50 am »
I'm thinking of ordering the Paper in Wax Ampohm bypass caps.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #41 on: 15 Sep 2010, 04:21 am »
And I also want to say this is all Mike Galusha's fault.  He has a pair of Gedlee Summas and before I heard them I was convinced all pro-audio based speakers were crap.  But his system was just about the best I've ever heard.  That gave me the impetus to take a chance on the OB V2's with the P Audio Coax drivers.  I'm glad I took a chance.

drphoto

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #42 on: 15 Sep 2010, 05:11 am »
I wonder if you could simply go up to the next level of Danny's P-audio drivers, like the one from V1, Just keep the lower part of what you built as a bass unit. and build a stand alone baffle for the new driver. However it seems like you have a lot of space in that current baffle, maybe it would accomodate the new piece? Call it the V2+?

 If not, there may be some benefit in placing the bass modules in a different location from the mains anyway. (I found that to be true)

I'm just thinking out loud here, which I tend to do. It sounds like you want that open back tweeter unit.

I'm the nutter running the OB subs in H frame (essentially the lower section of the V1) w/ sealed monitors...Merlin TSM-MMe. I'd love to try the big P-audio unit, but my audio slush fund is tapped out. It sound really good, but I wish I could hear the whole OB experience. Especially coming from a former Maggie owner.

I'm finding the hardest part of my DIY project is getting them finished. Once I got the baffles assembled, I installed the drivers and fired 'em up for a test. Six months later, they're still in raw MDF. I just hate the thought of taking them down for the days required to finish.

Wind Chaser

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #43 on: 15 Sep 2010, 02:21 pm »
The hardest part of the build was the angled woofers.  I recommend installing the woofers into the cutouts before assembling the final box.

I was thinking rather than mounting them at a 45˚angle it might be easier to mount them flush onto the front baffle.  Of course this makes the V2's wider, but they are already much bigger than I'd like.  Anyhow I can't find a better option at this price - let alone anything even half as interesting... so big it will just have to be.

ebag4

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #44 on: 15 Sep 2010, 02:31 pm »
I was thinking rather than mounting them at a 45˚angle it might be easier to mount them flush onto the front baffle.  Of course this makes the V2's wider, but they are already much bigger than I'd like.  Anyhow I can't find a better option at this price - let alone anything even half as interesting... so big it will just have to be.
Wind, don't forget that there is a gain in the bass output from the modified H frame alignment.  Simply mounting the woofers on a flat baffle will change the bass response from the original design.

Best,
Ed
« Last Edit: 15 Sep 2010, 04:12 pm by ebag4 »

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #45 on: 15 Sep 2010, 04:07 pm »
Yes, I'd stick with the 45 degree angle, because it loads the room a bit differently, and it also slightly horn-loads the woofer instead of the baffle-load as Ed indicates.  Besides, it's not really very hard, as long as you learn my lesson and pre-drill the screw holes and mount the woofer before assembly.

Danny Richie

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #46 on: 15 Sep 2010, 04:23 pm »
Yes, I'd stick with the 45 degree angle, because it loads the room a bit differently, and it also slightly horn-loads the woofer instead of the baffle-load as Ed indicates.  Besides, it's not really very hard, as long as you learn my lesson and pre-drill the screw holes and mount the woofer before assembly.

You don't have to pre-mount the woofers before assembly if you use an Allen headed bolt and nut on the back two mounting holes.

Since you had some issue with that, I now provide those screws with the kits.

Your bass response will also tighten up quite a bit when you add a heavy side panel and line the insides of the woofer area with No Rez. So it will get even better.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #47 on: 17 Sep 2010, 01:02 am »
Good idea, hex screws will resolve it.

How long does break in take for the V2's?  They are sounding pretty rough and spitty today...

Danny Richie

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #48 on: 17 Sep 2010, 02:09 am »
Good idea, hex screws will resolve it.

How long does break in take for the V2's?  They are sounding pretty rough and spitty today...

They need a good 100 hours on them to really smooth out.

Have you pulled them well out into the room yet?

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #49 on: 17 Sep 2010, 02:58 am »
I did pull them out, soundstage was impressive, but a bit of weight was lost in the lower mids.  I think if I pull them out on a semi-permanent basis, I'll have to re-voice the bass crossover to compensate for the new position.

Have you tried any of the Ampohm paper in oil capacitors as bypass caps?  If so, I wonder how they sound?

Danny Richie

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #50 on: 17 Sep 2010, 04:04 am »
Quote
I did pull them out, soundstage was impressive, but a bit of weight was lost in the lower mids.  I think if I pull them out on a semi-permanent basis, I'll have to re-voice the bass crossover to compensate for the new position.

No problem. Turn the dial on the amp and bring the bottom end back up.

Quote
Have you tried any of the Ampohm paper in oil capacitors as bypass caps?  If so, I wonder how they sound?

I am not a big fan of the coloration that the oil filled caps cause in this application. Those slower discharge caps tend to have a smearing effect.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #51 on: 17 Sep 2010, 05:42 am »
Agreed, dialing in these speakers is hella-easy compared to a box speaker, even compared to my fully active Ella's. 

Re: Caps, I assume the crossover parts are very good stock, but if cost were no object, what would you recommend?

Ah, one other question - what is the overall efficiency of the v2's?

And, BTW, the DEQX and my audio-gd bass amp are definitely going up for sale. 

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #52 on: 17 Sep 2010, 07:06 am »
Listening to a bit of Rachmaninov right now, piano concerto #2 (with Zimerman playing and Ozawa conducting) and it's sounding very nice indeed!  Love late night listening sessions.

rklein

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #53 on: 17 Sep 2010, 02:05 pm »
Hi Tyson:

Glad to see your build went well.  Since we have both heard Mike Galusha's system which includes Dr. Geddes' Abbeys, and you have now built(although still not dialed in) the V-2's, I was hoping you could comment on the differences between the two speakers in regards to soundstage, imaging, etc. that you could share pertaining to classical music.  I am not interested in which is the "better" speaker, but rather the differences.  I realize it is a challenge to compare as I am well aware of the killer equipment that Mike is currently using!  You don't have to respond until you get the V-2's more "dialed" in.

BTW, our orchestra is performing the Rachmoninov #2 with Andre Watts in November.  Looking forward to it as I am the Principal Clarinet and will be playing the gorgeous solo at the beginning of the 2nd movement. :thumb:

Randy

Wind Chaser

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #54 on: 17 Sep 2010, 02:14 pm »
Simply mounting the woofers on a flat baffle will change the bass response from the original design.

I'd still have an open ended box around each of the two bottom woofers for that purpose which would also serve to enable the speaker to stand up right.

Danny Richie

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #55 on: 17 Sep 2010, 02:30 pm »
Quote
Re: Caps, I assume the crossover parts are very good stock, but if cost were no object, what would you recommend?

I'd bypass the Sonicaps with Sonicap Platinum's.

Quote
Ah, one other question - what is the overall efficiency of the v2's?

93db 1 watt/1 meter.

ebag4

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #56 on: 17 Sep 2010, 02:31 pm »
I'd still have an open ended box around each of the two bottom woofers for that purpose which would also serve to enable the speaker to stand up right.
If I understand what you are saying that would give you a "U" alignment and the response will still vary from the modified "H" alignment that Danny designed.  Of course Danny can better speak to the issues (if any) this will create.  As I recall Danny tested the "U" alignment and felt it had drawbacks not present in the "H" alignment.  Of course I could be mis-remembering this  :wink: so I would check with Danny.

Best,
Ed

TomS

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #57 on: 17 Sep 2010, 03:06 pm »
If I understand what you are saying that would give you a "U" alignment and the response will still vary from the modified "H" alignment that Danny designed.  Of course Danny can better speak to the issues (if any) this will create.  As I recall Danny tested the "U" alignment and felt it had drawbacks not present in the "H" alignment.  Of course I could be mis-remembering this  :wink: so I would check with Danny.

Best,
Ed
I had some discussion with Danny on this when I built my V1 standalone subs.  One of his concerns with a U vs H, at least on the OB servo drivers, was a long U cabinet without a brace/baffle through the middle (as in the H) would not be nearly as rigid.  I took that advice and just built it as an H.  Seems like the V2 twist on the woofers is just right for the small coax driver. 

Tyson - Love the V2 build.  You must be setting some kind of throughput record on construction.  It took me forever to get my subs put together.  Have fun!

PDR

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #58 on: 17 Sep 2010, 03:33 pm »
I have built a number of subs, speaker cabinets and arrays over the last few years.

The H baffle might seem difficult to build, but if you stick the side panels on last as in the bigger
V builds It was really quite simple.

I could see building the bottom half of the V as a stand alone sub.....those OB servos are
really quite remarkable.

Heres a pic of my bottom half before the top baffle was installed.......the top is a bit more challenging. As you can see there isnt much to it.


Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #59 on: 17 Sep 2010, 07:27 pm »
Hi Tyson:

Glad to see your build went well.  Since we have both heard Mike Galusha's system which includes Dr. Geddes' Abbeys, and you have now built(although still not dialed in) the V-2's, I was hoping you could comment on the differences between the two speakers in regards to soundstage, imaging, etc. that you could share pertaining to classical music.  I am not interested in which is the "better" speaker, but rather the differences.  I realize it is a challenge to compare as I am well aware of the killer equipment that Mike is currently using!  You don't have to respond until you get the V-2's more "dialed" in.

BTW, our orchestra is performing the Rachmoninov #2 with Andre Watts in November.  Looking forward to it as I am the Principal Clarinet and will be playing the gorgeous solo at the beginning of the 2nd movement. :thumb:

Randy

That's awesome regarding Watts coming, he's a really great pianist!  That clarinet solo is pretty exposed!

Regarding the Gedlee's, right now there's no question Mike's system sounds better in most respects.  He has a very well treated, dedicated room with unlimited placement flexibility, while I have only a very limited set of options and no treatment at all in my living room.  Plus the V2's aren't even broken in yet.  And, he's got a world-class tubed preamp and is able to cycle between multiple different tube amps depending on mood or music needs (although I'd probably stick with that killer SET he has full time, myself). 

Having said that, I'll state how they are similar first before I get to differences.  Both the V2's and the Gedlee's are incredibly dynamic and precise sounding.  Much more so than most "conventional" audiophile type speakers.  They also both have about the best midrange-to-tweeter transition I've ever heard, particularly off axis.  This integration seems to be easy to do on-axis, lots of speakers do it well.  But, when you move to the side, most speakers have a pretty big change in power response and that makes the tweeter sound a bit isolated and hot, and the upper mids a bit muffled.  The Gedlee's and V2's are far better at this than anything else I've heard.  Finally, because they are so efficient and coherent sounding, there's a "pop" to the sound that really gets the toes tapping. 

Differences are harder to state with full certainty because the V2's are still breaking in, and the other factors in the rest of our systems are going to play a large role.  The most obvious example is tone, smoothness, and soundstage.  Mike gets great tone and smoothness in his setup with fully broken in speakers and top flight tube gear, while my V2's (as I said in my last post) get a bit "spitty" with the breakin occuring and a digital, solid state preamp.  I do think the V2's will smooth out, and I'm having a custom (very high end) tube preamp being built for me.  I think with these changes the V2 will likely get close or at least match Mike's setup.  The other area the Mike's setup excels is soundstage - huge, deep, very precise.  I haven't spent enough time in the sweet spot in my setup to even begin to judge the V2's in this aspect, so I can't comment much here.

One area that I definitely do prefer the V2's is in the bass area, because I have such a difficult room.  For me, box speakers just don't do well in my room.  So, regardless of the other sterling qualities of the Gedlees, the bass from them (or from a box sub) would still be a major issue, that even my very powerful DEQX Room-EQ capabilities have a difficult time with.  With the DEQX and box speakers, I can optimize things for one or 2 locations in the room, but control for other areas of the room drops off.  With the V2's, the bass loads my room much more evenly, so I can walk around and get roughly the same bass energy/pressure on the far end as on the near end of the L shape.

Hope this helps!