A call to my customers in the SF Bay area.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #140 on:** 26 Jul 2010, 07:47 pm »

This thread is moving faster than I can respond. Four posts made while I was typing the last one.

Quote from: DanTheMan on 26 Jul 2010, 07:27 pm

Nothing I see as inappropriate.

There is obviously many things here that you just don't see. Most of which can be chalked up to inexperience. However, this last response goes way past that.

You can't make physical threats on AC at all. This was the second time you mentioned something along these lines. You simply can't do that here.

Please re-think your position and edit your own post before the powers that be sees it and takes further action.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #141 on:** 26 Jul 2010, 07:50 pm »

Actually Danny, don't remember if I posted it in this thread or the other, but I said musicians had known it previously to seeing the evidence. It was under the premise that if you tortured a component enough.

I see nothing that resembles a physical threat. That's your interpretation. My point is that we all have the same hobby and probably wouldn't act this way in person. You notice I haven't said anything bad about a person until they first said something to me. That's happened a couple times in this thread and the other and my response will always be the same "don't talk shit online." It's a cowardly act. Sorry, it came off as a "I'll kick your lilly ass type of thing." Legibility..............

Dan

DanTheMan · « **Reply #142 on:** 26 Jul 2010, 07:51 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 26 Jul 2010, 07:47 pm

This thread is moving faster than I can respond. Four posts made while I was typing the last one.

There is obviously many things here that you just don't see. Most of which can be chalked up to inexperience. However, this last response goes way past that.

You can't make physical threats on AC at all. This was the second time you mentioned something along these lines. You simply can't do that here.

Please re-think your position and edit your own post before the powers that be sees it and takes further action.

I will not edit my posts until shit talking about me has been removed.

Dan

sts9fan · « **Reply #143 on:** 26 Jul 2010, 07:56 pm »

There was no physical threat posted or implied. Your just looking for a reason to get him banned. The caps must flow.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #144 on:** 26 Jul 2010, 08:01 pm »

Quote

I really wish you could say something to my face. Where do you live?

So you guys really think that this doesn't sound like Dan is looking for a physical confrontation?

I don't see any reason why anyone would want to have you over for a listen to anything if you are going to come across this way.

I am going to lock this thread down for a while so folks can take a breath.

I'll re-open it later after I have more time to consider what has been said and when I can come back and moderate it.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #145 on:** 28 Jul 2010, 01:25 am »

Okay, let's see if it can be more productive now.

I did a little thread cleaning and DanTheMan is now restricted. That means his posts have to be approved by a moderator before anyone else can see them.

Doublej · « **Reply #146 on:** 28 Jul 2010, 01:59 am »

My question is can't one measure the series resistance of two brands of capacitor and determine the impact of this resistance on the frequency and phase response of the crossover?

Is it possible that installing a better component as defined as being closer to theoretically ideal could sound worse because the crossover design took the series resistance into account and therefore removing or reducing this resistance is less optimal?

Or is it a case where this resistance (and the case of an inductor, capacitor and resistance) is insignificant?

BYOB · « **Reply #147 on:** 28 Jul 2010, 03:37 am »

Curiosity is killing me; Danny did you get the speakers? what do you think? will you be selling upgrades?

BTW, you all were correct. I got my ONE speaker from PE...bummer. Back it goes as 140 for one is not inline with internet pricing.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #148 on:** 28 Jul 2010, 03:57 am »

Quote from: Doublej on 28 Jul 2010, 01:59 am

Is it possible that installing a better component as defined as being closer to theoretically ideal could sound worse because the crossover design took the series resistance into account and therefore removing or reducing this resistance is less optimal?

Or is it a case where this resistance (and the case of an inductor, capacitor and resistance) is insignificant?

It doesn't work that way. The resistance that it creates as frequency decreases is directly related to its stated value.

Quote from: BYOB on 28 Jul 2010, 03:37 am

Curiosity is killing me; Danny did you get the speakers? what do you think? will you be selling upgrades?

I have not received them yet.

art · « **Reply #149 on:** 28 Jul 2010, 06:28 am »

Quote from: Doublej on 28 Jul 2010, 01:59 am

Is it possible that installing a better component as defined as being closer to theoretically ideal could sound worse because the crossover design took the series resistance into account and therefore removing or reducing this resistance is less optimal?

I had a long chat with the head designer, at DCM, many years ago. They actually did factor in the ESR of all of the crossover components. Putting in a coil, with a larger gauge wire, would change the Q of the network. He also factored in how much flux from one coil would affect another. I forget what model speaker this was, but they did get a patent issued for the crossover. I forget the nuance they used to get the patent. Too bad I no longer have the JAES that patent was reviewed in. This particular model had lots of coils. I have a feeling most where there for FR/phase/time correction.

Even more o/t, but maybe of interest..............had to measure the crossover network, for a customer, who wants to bi-amp his speakers. (We are doing the electronic crossover, so I had to measure the existing one.) There are anomalies, in the FR, as I strongly suspect all the coils, lined up in a nice row, are talking to each other.

So, to answer your question: yes.

"It is just a crossover. How hard can that be to make?"

Depends. Are you going to factor in ESR? Are you going to assume it is constant, as a function of frequency? Are you going to line up all the coils? Lots of ways to make it less than optimum, without any effort.

Pat

lowtech · « **Reply #150 on:** 28 Jul 2010, 06:37 am »

Quote from: art on 28 Jul 2010, 06:28 am

Lots of ways to make it less than optimum, without any effort.

Sometimes you have to even go out of your way to mess things up. Case in point:

Danny Richie · « **Reply #151 on:** 28 Jul 2010, 09:41 pm »

Speakers made it.

HAL · « **Reply #152 on:** 28 Jul 2010, 10:40 pm »

WOOHOO! Now the fun begins!

johnzm · « **Reply #153 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 04:45 pm »

hey danny,

any initial thoughts on the sound? i am itchin to try a pair on the idea that with mods they might become fantastic speakers.

lets us know how they sound!

Danny Richie · « **Reply #154 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 05:22 pm »

I have made all the measurements and just got through listening to them. I even took listening notes. They do have some problems, but it may be fixable issues. Some things were well engineered but they missed the boat in other areas. Some issues are overbearing.

I need to try a few things and see what happens. Hold tight. I have to do this in my spare time, of which I have little of. Right now I need to eat some lunch and get some orders shipped out.

More will come.

HT cOz · « **Reply #155 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 11:47 pm »

The Maestro at work, Iknew you wouldn't be happy to just swap some caps. It's just not in your DNA.

Rock'on

DFaulds · « **Reply #156 on:** 30 Jul 2010, 11:22 am »

Oi Vey, this thread is painful to read. Please tell me after all this that the whole concept of merely changing out xo parts is still the goal.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #157 on:** 30 Jul 2010, 02:45 pm »

Quote from: DFaulds on 30 Jul 2010, 11:22 am

Oi Vey, this thread is painful to read. Please tell me after all this that the whole concept of merely changing out xo parts is still the goal.

Yes it is, but there are some other issues with this speaker that are pretty significant that is masking a lot of the speakers true performance. I think I can correct this and then the differences in the crossovers will be more easily discerned. You'll see what I mean shortly.

I might also be able to put both networks inside the speaker and use just one switch between them, but it will require one more set of binding posts to be added to the back of the speaker. What do you guys think of that?

sts9fan · « **Reply #158 on:** 30 Jul 2010, 02:56 pm »

Why not post some measurments.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #159 on:** 30 Jul 2010, 03:06 pm »

I will post everything as soon as I can. I measured everything.