Re-wiring house.....seperate audio breaker?

msm_1 · « **on:** 8 Jun 2010, 12:44 am »

Hi

I was wondering if anyone has had the chance to run a direct electrical line for their audio system?

I've now found another amp, so I now have a pair of Spectal DMA 200 amps to bi-amp my VR-4's. These are watt thirsty amps, even in idle ( as described in another thread )

So...

I'm having a new breaker panel installed and am thinking on wiring a seperate line for my audio system. What I'm thinking is, plugs types and anyother tweeks that may improve the direct feed and overall performance.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Thanks

Mike

es347 · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 01:22 am »

Mike,

If you can run a separate circuit easily then you may as well. I have a separate 20A circuit comprised of shielded 12/2 w grd. The shielding was a bit over the top but I figured I may as well go totally anal. The only thing I've found that can cause real audible noise are resistive incandescent dimmers or fluorescents with SS ballasts. If you don't run an express feeder then be sure you have neither of those bad actors on the same circuit with your amps.

K Shep · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 03:11 am »

I recently added 2 each 20 amp dedicated circuits to my electrical panel. Take a look at this thread.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79938.msg763329#msg763329

BPT · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 01:30 pm »

The Isoclean Zero Ohm breaker panel is a great place to start for excellent AC. http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=6225

The Ionic Earthing Array is a fine addition for best grounding. http://www.atitec.com/support/main/atitec.html

Chris H.

es347 · « **Reply #4 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 01:35 pm »

Just a reminder fellow circlers. Electricity is nothing for the inexperienced to fool with. If you are a novice, just fork over the dough and let a licensed person do the work. Trust me on this one.

es347 · « **Reply #5 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 01:42 pm »

Quote from: BPT on 8 Jun 2010, 01:30 pm

The Isoclean Zero Ohm breaker panel is a great place to start for excellent AC. http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=6225

The Ionic Earthing Array is a fine addition for best grounding. http://www.atitec.com/support/main/atitec.html

Chris H.

Chris,

No offense but $5K for a 100A panel? This, in my opinion, is someone taking full advantage of audiophiles. Stick with SqD or Cutler Hammer and be done with it. Running a dedicated circuit?...go for it. How about $100 for an "audiophile grade" duplex? No...but how about $15 for a Hubbell hospital grade duplex? Sorry, but five large for a 100A pwr. panel is insane. Again, no offense Chris.

BPT · « **Reply #6 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 03:09 pm »

None taken.
Just showing Mike and others what's available, if they want to "take it to the limit". Helps to keep things in perspective.
Chris H.

srb · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 04:15 pm »

Quote from: es347 on 8 Jun 2010, 01:42 pm

Sorry, but five large for a 100A pwr. panel is insane.

But less insane than one large for an IEC power cord.

Steve

JackD201 · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 08:08 pm »

I went with a Siemens breaker.

Yes, there is an "i" in there you dirty dog. You know who you are!

Wayner · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 08:26 pm »

We are having this discussion on another thread as well, so I thought I would post here, too. Remember that power amps have tremendous inrush current at turn on. If you have 2 amps on the same 15 amp circuit and turn them on at the same time, you may trip the breaker. If you sequentially turn them on, you may avoid nuisance tripping. If you have a 20 amp circuit, that could be better, but still depends on total line load and amperage impact at turn on.

The more I get involved in these kinds of discussions, the more I like having 2 separate 20 amp circuits for the HIFI, especially if there is more then 1 large amp involved.

my 2 cents.

Wayner

msm_1 · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 12:00 am »

Hi

Thanks for all the insights.

I'm using a simple Rotel 1040 Line conditioner and was wondering.... for the amps ( at 1200 watts/idle each ) if it was better to run each off thier own plug each or if it would be better to run them thru the 1040 at a single plug?

Thanks again

Mike

JackD201 · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 01:21 am »

If the two plugs share the same line then it's the same thing except you get line conditioning through the 1040.

Out of my breaker, in the room I'm currently constructing

I have 4 dedicated 20A lines for my 4 monoblocks a shared 20A for my subs, a dedicated 15A for my RP-1 DRC box

and 2 dedicated 15As one for digital and one for analog and pre running of their own Hydras.

es347 · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 01:23 am »

Wow, 10A at idle. I guess what I've read about those Spectral amps is true. If you have one of those babies running 24/7 which, as I recall is recommended...assuming an electric rate of $.10 per KWH, you are looking at over $85 per month per amp. That is some expensive listening. Just for perspective, my MC501 monoblocks are purported to draw less that 0.5A at idle. I still turn them off when not listening.

srb · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 01:34 am »

The Rotel RLC-1040 is only rated at 1440W continuous output. Plugging two of these amps into it, I would think you would be choking the life out of the dynamics, not to mention tripping the breaker on the RLC-1040.

Are you sure about the power consumption? That's insane. If so, I would be thinking heavily about trading them in for the DMA-200S, which consumes 250W at idle.

Steve

disco · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 01:56 pm »

Msm_1, I recommend;

1)   Having your electrician run at least two dedicated circuits. One for your power amp and one for a power conditioner(source gear).
2)   Run an extra just in case. So if you think two will work, run three. I have 5 dedicated circuits in my room and I use them all.
3)   One 20 amp breaker per circuit. This will give you 2400 watts per circuit.
4)   Have you electrician put all the circuits on the same phase(all A phase or all B phase)
5)   Use 10/2 WG Romex. This is way overkill, but that is what this hobby is all about. This is also the largest gauge easily accessible solid wire available and any good receptacle will accept it.
6)   Use the best receptacles you can afford. The Oyaide R1’s and the Kimber Wattgate 381’s are great. The Hubbell 5362 is a nonaudio grade receptacle that is also excellent.

Wayner · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 03:33 pm »

10/2 is overkill and I don't think you can even find it. Most 10 gauge is for 40 and 50 amp circuits for stoves and dryers. Also, Romex wire is subject to local codes as some cities require conduit.

Wayner

srb · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 03:39 pm »

Quote from: disco on 9 Jun 2010, 01:56 pm

5) Use 10/2 WG Romex. This is way overkill, but that is what this hobby is all about.

That about says it all. The obsessive aspect of the audio hobby is to spend extra money on things that have no audible benefits.

Steve

es347 · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 03:42 pm »

Most 10 gauge is for 40 and 50 amp circuits for stoves and dryers Really? 10 ga. for 40 or 50 amps? Not where I come from. Regarding romex in conduit, the only place, as I recall, that the NEC or local codes require conduit (actually EMT) is where duplex or switch box runs are surface mounted and not run within a wall, most likely on a basement masonry or concrete wall.

ctviggen · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 04:02 pm »

10 gauge is usually for 30 amps, 240V. Technically, you don't put romex in conduit (although I don't believe the NEC prevents this). Usually, you put individual runs of wires (THHN is one specification) in conduit.

However, I ran 10 gauge wires to my system location and to my garage and to my attic. 12 gauge is suitable, but there's no reason one cannot run larger gauge wires.

I think what Steve meant is metal conduit or metal-clad cables. Some jurisdictions do require this. Mine doesn't, luckily. I ran metal conduit (EMT) for an isolated ground for my system, and it's very time consuming to run.

srb · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 04:03 pm »

Most thermoplastic sheath copper wire installations will use

10 gauge for 30 Amps
8 gauge for 40 Amps
6 gauge for 50 Amps

If the run is more than 100 feet, the next largest wire size is usually used to keep voltage drop within 3%. This is a generalization as local electrical codes may vary.

Steve