final decisions to make: Zaph ZR-71 or GR N2 or N3?

Rclark · « **Reply #20 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 03:42 am »

You know, I'm fairly certain I want that particular kit. I think I'd like a front firing version (read the differences, can load up easier with rear fire and walls, but won't need any loading in this room, and I like the look better, also there is the advantage as Danny says of decoupling the speakers from the wall, which I need as an apartment dweller.

Can you give me some links to enclosure building, maybe some vids, and some stuff on finishing and painting or veneering. This is my first time and all but I wanna make them nice. As far as cutting I'll just have Home Depot or whoever handle that. I'm going to be loud enough as it is with my rivet gun making basstraps. I don't need to be running any saws.

... psyched.

Edit: I keep reading this term "Flatpack". What is it?

tesseract · « **Reply #21 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 05:21 am »

A flatpack is a cabinet that has been cut, stacked, and is easier, hence cheaper, to ship than an assembled cabinet. You screw, glue and finish.

Rclark · « **Reply #22 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 08:14 am »

hmmmm. Pretty sure eD can make a better sub box than I could..... I wonder how much they'd cost and if they offer finish options. Guess I'll fire off an email in the morning. Want all available options as far as how I procure cabinets, whether done myself or by someone else.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #23 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 03:56 pm »

Flip flopping the design so that the transmission line exits out the front is no problem.

If there is too much low end energy for your room then add a layer of insolation to the transmission line opening and soften the output. It is really easy to tune that way.

dvenardos · « **Reply #24 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 04:45 pm »

I have had good experience getting cabinets and flat packs from eD. They are great to work with, have good prices, and can do anything.

Quote from: Rclark on 7 Jun 2010, 08:14 am

hmmmm. Pretty sure eD can make a better sub box than I could..... I wonder how much they'd cost and if they offer finish options. Guess I'll fire off an email in the morning. Want all available options as far as how I procure cabinets, whether done myself or by someone else.

Rclark · « **Reply #25 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 12:44 am »

ok, done done done. N3 it is. I have to buy a new PC next week and then after that it's all stereo. I figure it will take me three months to collect everything and have it all together. I'll be back around when I do. Danny, I very much look forward to all this. Thanks for all the input fellas.

Rclark · « **Reply #26 on:** 10 Jun 2010, 03:31 am »

Damn nobody told me mineral wool smells funny. I just read this. I thought it was too good to be true. Back to the drawing board.

Rclark · « **Reply #27 on:** 10 Jun 2010, 08:26 am »

... I just discovered the ob3. That looks interesting.. Which is the better configuration for my situation? N3 or ob3? And what are the differences in SQ? I worry about the OB3 firing right at my neighbor's floor but I plan on dampening the ceiling so hopefully that would make running the OB3 a non issue.

mms3 · « **Reply #28 on:** 10 Jun 2010, 10:46 am »

I think you mean O-3, right? The recommendation with those is to keep them 3 feet from any wall. Sounds like that could be a challenge in your room. I'd stick with the front ported N3's.

Regarding your neighbors, those sealed subs are going to be more of a concern than either the N3 or O3.

HT cOz · « **Reply #29 on:** 10 Jun 2010, 01:24 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 10 Jun 2010, 08:26 am

my neighbor's floor

I fear that their is nothing you could do to get your neighbors to like your new hobby.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #30 on:** 10 Jun 2010, 05:12 pm »

Quote

I worry about the OB3 firing right at my neighbor's floor

The woofers in the O3 face up but it does not "fire up". You hear a direct signal from it just like you would if the drivers are facing forward.

You need a bigger room for the O3 than you have.

Rclark · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 Jun 2010, 06:39 pm »

Yeah I found the relevent O3 threads, and especially the O3 vs N3 thread. I think I will prefer the N3's supposed stronger punch and pronbably be quite satisfied with the soundstage it presents against the supposed superior o3 (in terms of soundstage).

Danny you need to edit your O3 page. In the threads I discovered it must be placed well into the room, but on your O3 page you describe them as being not placement sensitive. I think I understand what you mean by that but you probably will want to clarify that point in your ad.

As far as making my neighbors happy, I think I may have come across an idea. Still looking at the accoustics part of the "equation". I may be able to attach angled sheets of sheetrock against my wall (which will already be covered in mass loaded vinyl) and then just fill those spaces with as many layers of mineral wool as I can fit. I guess there is this Ecosse stuff which is supposed to not stink. I can also wrap in plastic, or hell, just use 703 but I want to avoid fiberglass if I can. Anyway, seal the sides with cuts of sheetrock or maybe even better just some fabric. I might then have massive energy absorption as they could act like enormous basstraps, and also have the added benefit of now angled walls and the retention of a reflective surface. I will also build an isolator plug for my window. This would be in addition to what I already want to do. Honestly I think no one will hear a peep. I have yet to join the accoustics forum and talk to the pros but this could very well work.

HT cOz · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 02:11 am »

R

I don't want to dappen your spirit or rain on your parade, but you have to know there is nothing you can do in an apartement that will completely dampen your new system from your neighbors. It takes 3-4 feet of concrete and steel to do that. You need Mass to absorb those big bass waves.

Now here is a plan that can work for you. Do everything you are dreaming of but be respectful of the people living around you. Turn your subs off at night. Get a set of headphones. Listen loud when people aren't around or trying to sleep. Just use common sense. Keep the dreams alive and when your lease is up find some shack to rent that isn't attached to other people

Rclark · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 08:16 am »

We have very good walls here. Despite being surrounded by neighbors, I never hear anything. No voices, no washing machines, no tvs, nothing. The only sounds are footfalls from above at times, but those are transmitted via the frame, they aren't direct sound.

That said, my main interest in accoustics is to maximize the fidelity of the system. However, if I can also keep some of the subbass inside, that will be a plus. I will be using isolators and also experiment with placement and phase with the two subs. Daytime listening isn't much of an issue, however. I can be reasonably loud no problem.

Here's my simple dream: to be able to run the full system at night, with subs, at about an 80dB level with nothing but the slightest muffled throb coming through, if anything. I think it can be done.

Anyway, it remains to be seen what can be accomplished. I've very qualified people in other places who can help me with that

.

No spirits dampened here. I only get more and more excited as I think about it all.

Rclark · « **Reply #34 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 08:22 am »

Headphones are great for a lot of reasons and a nice set or two (I'd like both an open and closed design) will be a future purchase, albeit after the system is complete. Some nice Sennheisers might be nice. I had the HD212pro and quite liked them. I really don't like firing directly from driver to earhole with such power levels but as long as you contain them it's safe enough I guess.

Anyway.

Rclark · « **Reply #35 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 03:10 am »

Well, things are starting to show up in the mail. I have Cryo Nova cables from Zmanastronomy, Mac Ultra Silver interconnects, and in a few days I should be getting my Emotiva ERC-1 via their sale. Soon as Ruben gets back to me about a flatpack I'll order that and my N3 kit. He doesn't get back to me I'll be calling Elemental Designs.

Anyway, figure to be fully operational like the death star by september. But psyched about the Emotiva, I'll get to start using that stat.

Zerogravity · « **Reply #36 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 06:55 pm »

Ruben should be contacting you soon! He is giving me a quote for a white oak flat kit and as soon as I'm locked in I'm going to order the upgraded N3 kit from Danny! Only thing is I'm debating on weather to build 2 N2Ss for mains since I already have 2 subs, 1 of them is Danny's 12" non servo! I laugh when people think these are low quality because their inexpensive, these things actualy cleaner then some 5 & 6" mid-woofers that I have! Only thing is I hope the N2s is decent for my size room and with the extra woofer compared to the N2x I don't see that much of a difference except saving more money on cabinet design?

Rclark · « **Reply #37 on:** 1 Jul 2010, 12:56 am »

I have a similar plan (also smaller room like yours).

I'm going to buy the N3 kit with all the pepperoni and go ahead and build the front firing floorstander. My amp will be either the Virtue Sensation 451 or 901 with Mundorf Silver in Oils factory installed and with the Dodd tube buffer.

If I like (God knows, I'm running a $20 ten year old Classic dvd player and some multimedia speakers in an untreated room), then great. But if I should want to add subs I think I'll go ahead and build some open baffle GR servo subs, and run the Sensation at 80hz. The amp is supposed to sound just godly at this setting.

Danny, please feel free, thoughts on cutting off your transmission line at 80 hz.

Anyway, a little nervous, it's fun talking big but now that I'm buying the stuff it's a big hail mary.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #38 on:** 1 Jul 2010, 01:24 am »

Quote

My amp will be either the Virtue Sensation 451 or 901 with Mundorf Silver in Oils factory installed and with the Dodd tube buffer.

I am not a big fan of the Mundorf Silver in Oils. They are a cap that highly colors the signal. Some people really like that coloration, but it is not for me. The highs get a little too soft and imaging a little too compromised.

If I were building one for myself then it would use a Sonicap Platinum.

If you wanted to roll off the bottom end then use a .047 Sonicap Platinum (small and less expensive value) and use a larger Sonicap by-passed with a Gen.2 .1uF for the pre-outs that will send a signal to your subs.

Speaking of subs, your subs will integrate better crossed over in a lower range. Plus, you aren't going to find a sub that sounds as good from 40Hz to 80Hz as the N3 unless you go with the servo subs. Even thin though, I think I'd still cross them over below 50Hz.

Outofthewoods · « **Reply #39 on:** 1 Jul 2010, 01:48 am »

Quote from: Zerogravity on 30 Jun 2010, 06:55 pm

Ruben should be contacting you soon!

Thanks ZG!

Rclark and I got it all worked out yesterday.

Ruben