Eastern Electric DAC mods

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Levi

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #380 on: 28 Feb 2011, 06:21 am »
The audition is about comparing stock vs modified unit!   :wink:

I'd say the majority did an exemplary describing the difference between the two favoring Wayne's modified EE DAC.  :thumb:

So Wayne, when is level II mod going to be available?  Maybe an external powersupply?!?  I am saving up for that.

The premise was to really asses the sonic differences between the 2 units, so the SAME tube in both units would make the contrasting results more meaningful.  If one puts a seriously inferior tube in the modded unit, then the comments might/would be different/

The audition at the Syndrome meeting was brief but productive.  About an hour dedicated to it (2 hours warmup first after coming in from the cold, tho much of the time it was actually in the back seat of Rollo's car when we headed out; it was sub-freezing outside).  So I might as well chime in.  I am just going to be brief, since much of the extolling has been done, and I'm not adding more discoveries I suppose.  If someone else should want to add more, the better.

General consensus - very transparent, fast, and very big soundstage.

Then, I've had it under audition in my listening environment for the past few days.  With the stock EE DAC, thanks to the virtue of the Sabre chip, the soundstage and detailing ability of the Sabre chip was already appreciated out of the box.  With this souped up Bolder Cable version, it's even more impressive.  The audition unit has a Psvane in it, so the soundstage was further enhanced because of its somehow wonderful capacity in this department.  Because the tonality of the Psvane is, as others have said, just right, not too dense, not too lean, the imaging, along with the soundstaging, was exemplary. 

The one thing I would like to add perhaps is, if nobody had mentioned (the thread has become so loooong, don't mind my senility!), the modded EE DAC has more energy.  Perhaps that's due to the better parts added, and Wayne's upgrade in some departments.  The modded DAC I think has a higher output (didn't Wayne say that?).  With the stock EE, I'd have to crank the volume up say a couple of notches to match the sound level of the BC unit.

My unit has a CV4003 in it, so the one thing I'd like to add is that my unit seemed to be a bit denser in the middle.  I am a 6SN7 person, so this quality I don't mind having at all.  The Bolder unit is more open comparatively of course.  So, I wouldn't mind owning the Bolder unit, with the mods, of course.  ...



Wayne1

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #381 on: 28 Feb 2011, 05:38 pm »
Quote
So Wayne, when is level II mod going to be available?  Maybe an external powersupply?!?  I am saving up for that.

Throw enough money at me and be prepared to wait 6 months or longer, and maybe you can have a level 2 mod.  :lol:

The mods I have done above the level that went out on tour, used Paul Hynes regulators. Mr. Hynes is a very busy person. At this time he is quoting 12 weeks minimum to get a set of regulators. They need to be paid for in advance. They are also rather tricky to install in the small space of the EE DAC.

To go beyond that would require a larger case. The transformer used in the EE DAC is pretty much maxed out. Additional transformers can be used, but again, would require a larger case. The analog circuits can be changed more, but would require a larger case. Casework is not inexpensive. Options are being explored but pricing will be increased exponentially. Something might be ready around RMAF, of course by then there may be a new flavor of the month.

To keep using the same casework I can add the regulators, They will improve everything you have heard in the level 1 mod. The cost of the mod would be roughly $2,000.00. Contact me if you are interested. Be prepared to wait a long time and pay up front for parts.

In the meantime, I am going to be offering some op-amp upgrades. Doug Schroeder has been writing about some "custom" op-amps he found that improve the sound of the stock unit quite a bit. The op-amps are only available in surface mount from the manufacturer. I will be mounting them on adapters so they can be used in the EE DAC's 8 pin DIP sockets, They will be easier to install that a "normal" op-amp. They will still void your warranty if you swap op-amps.

The full set of 4 custom op-amps will be offered for roughly $100.00. They can be installed as part of the mod for the cost of the parts.

Turnandcough

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #382 on: 28 Feb 2011, 06:58 pm »
In the meantime, I am going to be offering some op-amp upgrades. Doug Schroeder has been writing about some "custom" op-amps he found that improve the sound of the stock unit quite a bit. The op-amps are only available in surface mount from the manufacturer. I will be mounting them on adapters so they can be used in the EE DAC's 8 pin DIP sockets, They will be easier to install that a "normal" op-amp. They will still void your warranty if you swap op-amps.

The full set of 4 custom op-amps will be offered for roughly $100.00. They can be installed as part of the mod for the cost of the parts.
I wish I had found out earlier. I just ordered two LME49720 and two LME49710 which are supposed to be a significant improvement over the stock ones.

Wayne1

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #383 on: 28 Feb 2011, 07:10 pm »
Op-amps are just like tubes in that you can't have too many  :wink:

Depending on your gear, you may like the LME49720 and not the LME49710. Or the other way around.

The only way to know for sure is to try every single op-amp out there in combination with every dual op-amp. That would take a long time and cost a bit of money.

The set I am going to offer has some very high recommendations, but it is just like the output tube. Some, like me, feel the Pavane 12AU7-T is the best match for our gear. Others prefer a Mullard, still others like Siemens.

I have just heard from Paul Hynes and his lead time is quite a bit less these days. If you are interested in the mod with his regulators, please get in touch with me.

Levi

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #384 on: 28 Feb 2011, 08:20 pm »
I am interested on the Op amps.

Gopher

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #385 on: 6 Mar 2011, 02:30 am »
Just wanted to chime in and upgrade my opinions with respect the Pavane 12au7s which Wayne includes as part of the DAC modification, and also to note once again that synergy is everything and your net sound is an interaction of numerous smaller variables.

With 845B tubes in my SET monoblock or with the very nice Redgum RGi120 I borrowed from a buddy when an 845b crapped on me, I had a clear preference for both the Siemens Silverplate and Mullard Longplate in the EE DAC.  After changing my 845Bs to Pavane 845-T I went through a struggle where I was pretty damn dissatisfied with how my system was sounding.  The Redgum I had been using was far more enjoyable than my much more expensive 845/Shindo amplification and I was not pleased...   then I had the epiphany of revisiting the Pavane 12au7 and my rig got its grove back.

Things are sounding as seductive as ever with a more linear and extended presentation along with MUCH needed drive.  The Mullards made things just too laid back and dead with the 845Ts in place (though it was blissful with the Redgum). 

I've sold the Siemens, and I'm keeping the Pavane and Mullard.  The Pavane will be my full time duty dac tube while my sets are in play... the Mullard will be inserted into my rig in the summer time when I run a redgum integrated...  If I can't get my buddy to sell me his, I'll buy one elsewhere--they're seriously undervalued on the used market.

The Pavane is a good tube in the right system and I take back some of the blasé comments I'd made.

Turnandcough

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #386 on: 6 Mar 2011, 04:57 am »
I keep changing my mind about which tube I prefer in this DAC. :duh:
At first I was quite thrilled with the Gold Lion and felt it was better than both the Pavane and the NOS Mullard. Then I gave the Pavane a second try and developed a new appreciation for it. I kept swapping back and forth and eventually could barely tell it and the GL apart but gave it(Pavane) a slight edge. At this point I was considering unloading the Mullard which I had found to be a bit thin compared to the other two the last time I tried it.
Last weekend I popped the Mullard back in and found it to be more coherent than the other two with plenty of detail, good tight bass and a lot more meatiness than I remembered from the last time. I now feel that if I had to chose only one it would most likely be the Mullard. 
Except for the fuse and opamps I have not yet had my DAC modded so this may be irrelevant to those who have.

Downsize

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Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #387 on: 6 Mar 2011, 06:47 pm »
Just wanted to chime in and upgrade my opinions with respect the Pavane 12au7s which Wayne includes as part of the DAC modification, and also to note once again that synergy is everything and your net sound is an interaction of numerous smaller variables.

With 845B tubes in my SET monoblock or with the very nice Redgum RGi120 I borrowed from a buddy when an 845b crapped on me, I had a clear preference for both the Siemens Silverplate and Mullard Longplate in the EE DAC.  After changing my 845Bs to Pavane 845-T I went through a struggle where I was pretty damn dissatisfied with how my system was sounding.  The Redgum I had been using was far more enjoyable than my much more expensive 845/Shindo amplification and I was not pleased...   then I had the epiphany of revisiting the Pavane 12au7 and my rig got its grove back.

Things are sounding as seductive as ever with a more linear and extended presentation along with MUCH needed drive.  The Mullards made things just too laid back and dead with the 845Ts in place (though it was blissful with the Redgum). 

I've sold the Siemens, and I'm keeping the Pavane and Mullard.  The Pavane will be my full time duty dac tube while my sets are in play... the Mullard will be inserted into my rig in the summer time when I run a redgum integrated...  If I can't get my buddy to sell me his, I'll buy one elsewhere--they're seriously undervalued on the used market.

The Pavane is a good tube in the right system and I take back some of the blasé comments I'd made.


Gopher ... Your comments are made in reference to using the stock DAC, or the Boulder modded one ?    I have fallen in love with the Siemens SIlverplate tube in the stock EE DAC ... The dynamics and inner resolution it adds is amazing. I wish I could have this same exact sound, but with a little more presence and warmth in the mids, while sacrificing nothing in the bass and treble the Silverplate brings ...

ecod123

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #388 on: 11 Mar 2011, 06:17 pm »
I have been following the various EE Minimax DAC threads with unrelenting fervent.

Finally realizing that resistance is futile, and when a mint preowned appeared before my eyes, I snapped that up like a Pavlov's dog at the sound of a bell. :green: Next up is to save for the Level One mod and to do the opamp and fuse upgrades.

Unfortunately the DAC arrived without an owner manual. Being OCD wrt owner manual and yes, I do actually like reading the manual from front to back to pick up gems of info. That was how I previously found out that the volume control is disabled when the Pre-In is selected on my Eastern Electric M520 amp. :thumb: Or that I should make sure that there's speaker load on my 1st tube amp before powering it up.

I am wondering if anyone have a copy of the EE DAC owner manual on pdf that you share with me? Can't find one online and Bill does not have it in pdf either. Thanks in advance.

Also, am looking for a Siemens silverplate or Mullard longplate 1950s. I know my DAC is not yet fully broken in but I am not digging the stock tube sound.

What is the "phase" feature for? And any difference with the metal tube sleeve on or off?

Thanks.


roscoeiii

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #389 on: 11 Mar 2011, 07:12 pm »
I had an EE DAC before getting my Weiss DAC, and I recall it being pretty minimal.

Gopher

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #390 on: 11 Mar 2011, 07:23 pm »
Turnandcough,

My feelings regarding the Pavane, 1950s Mullard and a Siemens Silver plate were similar to yours...  A lot of it came down to mood.  One day I'd have a strong preference for one--then a variable would change and I'd try another and greatly prefer it.  Right now I have the Pavane in there.

Downside,

I have the level one modifications.  I believe I was one of the early adopters of the mod package and I continue to be impressed by it.

Ecod123,

I don't have my mind made up just yet, but I MAY be wiling to sell my 1950s Mullard.  I've been on a 'simplification' kick and have been getting rid of all my extras/stash and just hanging on to what I'm using presently.  Freed up some significant money that way... 

ecod123

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #391 on: 11 Mar 2011, 07:27 pm »
Ecod123,

I don't have my mind made up just yet, but I MAY be wiling to sell my 1950s Mullard.  I've been on a 'simplification' kick and have been getting rid of all my extras/stash and just hanging on to what I'm using presently.  Freed up some significant money that way...

Fred,
When you are ready, let me know. Thanks! :thumb:

JLM

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Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #392 on: 11 Mar 2011, 10:38 pm »
ecod123: The EE DAC owner's manual is underwhelming, you're missing very little.

ecod123

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #393 on: 12 Mar 2011, 07:26 am »
ecod123: The EE DAC owner's manual is underwhelming, you're missing very little.

JLM,

Bummer. Was hoping I could glean some insights into some questions I have.

For instance, I have no idea what the phase button does and is there a functional difference to having the tube metal sleeve on or off.


JLM

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Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #394 on: 12 Mar 2011, 09:52 am »
ecod123:

The phase button is harmless, so feel free to try it.  Sometimes recordings (or setups)have the left and right phases switched (red/white wires switched).  By pushing the button the phasing is reversed on one of the channels, making the sound/imaging sound clearer (or not/worse).

The metal sleeve should come off (push and twist).  It protects the tube during shipping and allows shipment with the tube in place.  Leaving it there would make the tube run warmer and could shorten its life.

Turnandcough

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #395 on: 12 Mar 2011, 12:50 pm »
The metal sleeve should come off (push and twist).  It protects the tube during shipping and allows shipment with the tube in place.  Leaving it there would make the tube run warmer and could shorten its life.

Are you sure about this? Seems to me a piece of cardboard or foam could achieve the same results.
I thought the metal sleeve acted as a damper and helped keep the horizontal tube well anchored. I even thought it might act as a heat sink of sorts. I've always made a point of leaving it in. :scratch:

Gopher

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #396 on: 12 Mar 2011, 02:05 pm »
I though it was a shield for RMI/EMI interference like the midde tube on the EE phonostage...  I dont think physical support is its purpose and I dont think its a good choice of materials for dampening...

Wayne1

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #397 on: 12 Mar 2011, 02:12 pm »
The metal shield is mostly used to reduce RFI/EMI sensitivity. They were commonly used in phono stages in the early days of hi-fi. They are also used in very high gain guitar amps to reduce rfi pick-up.

The phase switch reverses the the positive and negative signals going into the last amplification stage on the DAC. It affects both channels. This can change how the center image is perceived and overall tightness of the bass. Listen to some music with it engaged and then off. As was mentioned, some recordings are released out of phase. This will help restore them to correct phase. There may also be another stage in your system that inverts the phase.
« Last Edit: 14 Mar 2011, 06:21 pm by Wayne1 »

Bill O'Connell

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Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #398 on: 12 Mar 2011, 03:53 pm »
Thanks to all who answer questions. :thumb:

 The tube shield is there for the stray RFI in case you live by radio tower or something.

 To remove the tube shield, you have to push the tube shield in gently(as it is spring loaded) and then turn 1/4 inch counter clockwise.this should release the tube shield with a gentle pull.( Hey pull this) :lol:

 Once the tube shield is removed you will be able to remove the tube by pulling straight out( because the tube socket is a very good one and has the tightest grip on the tube pins I have ever encountered) you will probably have to wiggle gentle while pulling at the same time. I normally don't recommend the wiggle but it is almost a must in the DAC's case.

 Replace tube by aligning the gap in the tube pins with the gap in the tube socket and just push the tube in place. The tube only goes in one way.

 To put back on the tube shield, look inside the tube shield, you will notice 2 notches, line those notches up with the 2 little pins that stick up on the tube shield holder which is attached to the tube socket. Push gently on and turn 1/4 inch clockwise and it should just lock into place.

 It is not necessary to put the tube shield  back on, it is your option.


ecod123

Re: Eastern Electric DAC mods
« Reply #399 on: 12 Mar 2011, 04:33 pm »
JLM, Gopher, Turnandcough, Wayne and Bill,

Thanks for responding and providing clarity to my questions.  :thumb:

I can't wait to try the phase function on some recordings and . . . roll some tubes! :D