[goldlizsts]

JLM,

I don't know if you intend it or not, but your words are pretty friggin' rude in my opinion.  I'm sorry my contributions don't meet your standards....................

+!.

Some of us are just poor with words I guess (without thinking of their impact when read by others).  We all err in this department.  I've put words down I later felt sorry for.  Happy to say that I didn't get shot.

I used to belong to another group/thread here on A/C.  Something minor ended up with someone being booted from the A/C......  I hope it doesn't end up that way because of those bad words.  It's a free country, all this person needs to do is not to read the thread or postings, and refrain from attacking others.  We didn't do a Column A (stock) and Column B (modded) kind of reviews I guess.  Understandable.  But, no need to be as such with those very caustic comments.  Just wait for the professional write-ups, which are much better-worded up.

Sorry for this ramble. 

[JLM]

Sorry for venting my fustrations,  but I sat on the sidelines (not pulling the trigger on buying a DAC) for months in large part waiting for a more incompassing, definitive comparison (to see just what upgrade path might be available).  I finally bought an EE DAC a couple of weeks ago, but obviously it didn't help relieve my angst.    Note that I'm closer to be a "starving audiophile" compared to some here and only make a significant change to my system about once a year.

But 5 months and 300+ posts later, precious little has been posted regarding a direct comparison (without swapping tubes, interconnects, power cords, etc.).  Yes, the modded unit is better, duh.  We all knew that from Wayne's postings last summer.  Thanks Ted for the snippets (every long thread should include this).   

Personally if I wanted to pretty prose I'd start reading the classics, not fluffy reviews that leave me stratching my head wondering what the professional reviewer really meant or  if he even liked the piece.  Frankly this is a big left handed compliment to you guys because I do value your opinions.     

My take away from this is to start keeping my own notes when interesting threads get to be long.  I hope everyone here in the future does just what NickS asks, to stay on topic especially as the thread gets long and remember that others are trying to gather every tidbit (I can't imagine all the hours have been logged onto this thread).

[KJ]

If I had to guess it would be because Eastern Electric (Alex) does not push the tube to its limit, if anything,he tends to run the tubes on the low side of the medium range , where Wayne I believe likes to run the 12au7(in this case) at pretty much it's peak.You can tell, tube life may not last as long but it seems to really bring the tube flavour to the table.

I missed this before.  I assume it's nothing of major concern, but how large of an impact to tube life should be expected?  Wayne, maybe you can chime in on this.

[Wind Chaser]

Sorry for venting my fustrations,  but I sat on the sidelines (not pulling the trigger on buying a DAC) for months in large part waiting for a more incompassing, definitive comparison (to see just what upgrade path might be available).

I share your frustrations, and not just with this thread.  With so many options the only meaningful information is direct comparisons.  This chip, that chip, up sampling, non over sampling, blah, blah blah, techno mumbo jumbo - please spare me!  Just cut to the chase and tell us how it sounds compared to everything and anything thing else you've heard. 

[rollo]

 I am not a EEDAC owner. I compared the Bolder EEDAC to our Lector CDP. The DAC will not lock with the Lector. well it does but when the ICs are connected the link is lost. We are befuddled as to why. hooked it up to a Sony CDP no issues and plys. So a direct comparison was not in the cards.
  Using the sony, a Bolder powercord and Harmonix ICs the sound is dynamic, open, weighty and focused. PRAT is spot on. Bass fuggetaboutit. Bass lines are tight and deep. Sibilance is handled very well, especially when in correct phase. That phase switch is an essential part. Being keen to phase its priceless. A big advantage over the Lector. I will never buy another DAC or CDP without that feature.
 Overall presentation is at and behind the speakers. The Lector more upfront in presentation. The EE DAC has a full sound with some meat on the bone. Unlike many of the modern players that are thin sounding.

Live performances really shined through. Vocals are pure with the inflections that make the live performance well live. Very impressive.
   What impressed us the most was the heft and clarity , a rare bird for sure. Getting both is the golden egg. We feel Wayne has accomplished just that.
  I believe if the Lector was able to be used as the transport the differences would be moot. With the Sony as good as it is the Lectors overall refinement wins out. not by much though. Quite a feat in our opinion.
  We conducted no tube swapping. before we shipit out I would like to try the Pavane 12AT7 in the lector in the cathode follower position against a NOS Mullard.
 Can't tell you how it compares to the original but as is KABOOM for the buck. Yes a possible giant killer. Well done Wayne, very well done indeed.


charles

[rollo]

 Ok it locked The culprit was the Sunfire sub. Unattached it locks. Connected looses lock. I tried a cheater plug but it locks, unlocks. removed speaker cables to sub installed ICs instead. Again no luck WTF.
  There is some kind of grounding issue with the Sunfire. Without the sub it sounds wonderfull, just no bass below 40Hz. If the bass ever kicks in I believe I just might like it better than the Lector.  Pretty amazing. Saving my pennies. 


charles

[NickS]

Thanks, Charles, for an interesting read.

OK, so here we all are six months following the announcement of the mods and availability of a tour unit for current owners of a stock EE DAC.  It appears that the touring unit has thus far successfully avoided sitting in a rack with a stock EE DAC for A/B comparison purposes…  and is soon to be returned or (preferably) sold.

Eventually it may well be an open audition. For the first leg, I would like to just have people who already own an EE DAC compare a moderately modded one to their own stock unit.

Why did this not occur as planned?

While I, for one, would never deny Ted an opportunity to practice his srajanistics, he was ineligible per the original intent of the tour not having a stock EE DAC for comparison purposes.  Curiously, it was his discovery that has had the greatest bearing on my decision to upgrade:  that the modded EE DAC didn’t get along with his W4S STP-SE preamp.  I also own an STP-SE preamp.

I am not a EEDAC owner.   

Nuff said…

Perhaps Wayne will realize that the initial audience lies well outside of the brackets of his target market.

[Levi]

Excellent Charles! 

 

I am not a EEDAC owner. I compared the Bolder EEDAC to our Lector CDP. The DAC will not lock with the Lector. well it does but when the ICs are connected the link is lost. We are befuddled as to why. hooked it up to a Sony CDP no issues and plys. So a direct comparison was not in the cards.
  Using the sony, a Bolder powercord and Harmonix ICs the sound is dynamic, open, weighty and focused. PRAT is spot on. Bass fuggetaboutit. Bass lines are tight and deep. Sibilance is handled very well, especially when in correct phase. That phase switch is an essential part. Being keen to phase its priceless. A big advantage over the Lector. I will never buy another DAC or CDP without that feature.
 Overall presentation is at and behind the speakers. The Lector more upfront in presentation. The EE DAC has a full sound with some meat on the bone. Unlike many of the modern players that are thin sounding.

Live performances really shined through. Vocals are pure with the inflections that make the live performance well live. Very impressive.
   What impressed us the most was the heft and clarity , a rare bird for sure. Getting both is the golden egg. We feel Wayne has accomplished just that.
  I believe if the Lector was able to be used as the transport the differences would be moot. With the Sony as good as it is the Lectors overall refinement wins out. not by much though. Quite a feat in our opinion.
  We conducted no tube swapping. before we shipit out I would like to try the Pavane 12AT7 in the lector in the cathode follower position against a NOS Mullard.
 Can't tell you how it compares to the original but as is KABOOM for the buck. Yes a possible giant killer. Well done Wayne, very well done indeed.


charles

Ok it locked The culprit was the Sunfire sub. Unattached it locks. Connected looses lock. I tried a cheater plug but it locks, unlocks. removed speaker cables to sub installed ICs instead. Again no luck WTF.
  There is some kind of grounding issue with the Sunfire. Without the sub it sounds wonderfull, just no bass below 40Hz. If the bass ever kicks in I believe I just might like it better than the Lector.  Pretty amazing. Saving my pennies. 


charles

[KJ]

Why did this not occur as planned?

Not to speak for Wayne and Bill, but I think they had a solid plan.  Enthusiasm may have just altered it a bit throughout the course of the tour.  Either way, I think it's provided them both with the customer feedback they needed, as well as offer those who have the stock DAC viable upgrade paths.

OK, so here we all are six months following the announcement of the mods and availability of a tour unit for current owners of a stock EE DAC.  It appears that the touring unit has thus far successfully avoided sitting in a rack with a stock EE DAC for A/B comparison purposes…  and is soon to be returned or (preferably) sold.

Bill's made a generous offer for you to accomplish just that.  There's no better way to get an A/B comparison than in your very own system.

At the end of the day, Wayne and Bill spent their own time and money to make this tour happen for the benefit of the consumer.  It might not have been perfect in your eyes, but it's better than no tour at all.  I think you'll find that few audio manufacturers will willingly give up equipment to send around for in home reviews.

Kudos to Wayne and Bill for their efforts.   

[Gopher]

+1

Remember this started as a mod thread, this was NOT originally a tour thread.  A tour was sprung based on Bill O'C's generosity--NOT to compile an extensive A/B evaluation, but to give EE DAC owners the opportunity to hear what the mods could do and make an educated purchasing decision. 

 What I could do also is send a NIB DAC(sorry don't have any used ones laying around) to Wayne and let him do some upgrades and maybe he could make it available to folks who already have purchased a DAC to see if there is a substantial increase in having theirs done. From speaking with Wayne,I believe upon hearing they will send their units in. Hopefully this will promote my sales and also keep Wayne busy.

 Would anybody be up for this option?

 Bill

Although there has been a nice amount of user feedback, it was not the sole purpose of the tour--its purpose as outlined above was completely successful. 

[rollo]

  For the record Wayne accomodated our Audiosyndrome meeting. We featured the EE DAC using a PS audio transport and CEC. All perferred the CEC combo. As well as the EE DAC to a modded Oritek by the infamous Dahong. Well the shell is an Oritek anyhow.
    Cable used was a Kimber D-60. Passive Pre[ stevens & billington, custom Maple enclosure] Wytech 211 amps with RCA 211s, driving VonS VR-6s oh my. The sound in a nutshell was superior in every way I could describe. Especially the top and mids. Thanks Levi. I'm turning over my turn as I will be in Florida for a week to Jim who hosted the meeting, he needs a listen alone. Next up Occam I believe.


charles


 

[Bill O'Connell]

Thank you for the kind words everybody, and for the effort to put your thoughts to pen everybody who has.

 To Nick, I just wrote Wayne an email to see if he can get you out the modded DAC as you did sign up. Hopefully that will happen.

 The Tour did get a little sidetracked, Ted has an abundance of knowledge with other DAC's as he has heard just about everything out there,and I'm sure Wayne wanted his modded DAC to join the fold of what Ted has heard and compared. Thanks TED

 Then Mike Peshkin who writes for Stereomojo asked if he could do an update on the modded DAC as he purchased the stock one and Mr Darby/editor/chief honcho of StereoMojo graciously must have agreed to let him do it. It only seemed right as the MiniMax DAC in it's stock form is up for/in the running for Stereo Product of the Year. It just seemed wise to let Mike do a comparison from the Dr. Frankenstein(Wayne) creator of the modifications.
 It just takes time with the listening sessions, shipping and the late start of the tour.

When all is said and done,
 May Love Always Abide,
 Bill

[Bill O'Connell]

I want to apologise to Wayne for obviously stepping on his toes and will refrain from ever posting on his Circle again.
 
Cheers,
Robin

 Robin, I don't think you stepped on any toes.
I was being surly from Levi's comment that " this is what the DAC should have sounded like to begin with" comment.
All's good guys.
 Bill

[ted_b]

Bill, thanks for the nice words.  IMHO, the $1500 tour modded Bolder EE DAC is the best most musical DAC, in my system, that I've heard for under $3k (Antelope Plus needs addtl $ for outboard power supply so it's above the threshold regardless).  I would require a USB-to-interface for the higher rez stuff, which puts the tour model all-in at around $2k for me.

I mentioned that the tour DAC, as well as my own current Weiss, seems to fare better with the Bent-to-Modwright combo than the Wyred-to-Modwright combo.  I will simply chalk it up to synergy (impedance, etc).  No reason to specifically fault the Wyred pre (i.e don't make associated equipment decisions based on Ted's synergy issues).

[NickS]

No knocks here on anyone; Wayne, Bill or any of the tour recipients.  In every sense, the tour is an admirable undertaking with interesting results.  Thanks to all who participated and took the time to share their comments.

As someone with skin in the game (i.e., a current owner of a stock EE DAC), I would like to have heard the following statement completed:  “After level matching the stock and modded DACs to a common source, when I switched between the two I heard…”.

I imagine that anyone else with skin in the game feels much the same way.  I can also understand why those without might feel differently.  That’s all… 

[Wayne1]

NickS,

I never received any message with a shipping address from you.

I offered the modded DAC to all comers just before Thanksgiving. tabrink stepped up to listen and compare. Unfortunately his work load didn't give him enough time to listen and write a definitive comparison. From there it went to owners of the EE DAC. Everyone DID post their impressions of the modded unit, as I asked them to. I did NOT ask that anyone write a definitive analysis

Ted_B did a great job of comparing the modded DAC to a comparably priced W4S DAC that uses the same Sabre chip. I thought that would be information that both owners of the EE DAC and possible buyers of an EE DAC would want to have.

Just because someone doesn't make a post the way you want them to is no reason to get in a snit about it. I asked that the DAC audition be kept to a week so that many people could listen. It is very hard to compare and contrast in such a short time when you have other obligations and maybe even a life outside of audio.

I changed some of the initial terms of the tour during the time the DAC was out, because, hey, its my tour and I get to decide where it goes. I had it sent to people who have posted comments on AC before. Who are known and respected for their opinions.

I'm almost sorry I sent it out, with all the complaints I'm reading. I don't know of too many offers of auditioning a piece of modded gear without having to pay for it in full, up front. In most cases, you buy the gear, buy the mod, wait and then find out if you might like what has been done.

I'll see if charles can get the DAC to Occam for him to listen to it. Then, if Nick S will send me his shipping information, I'll make arrangements for the DAC to go to him.

As far as a present stock EE DAC owner's comparison to the modded unit, I put Gopher's modded unit in my system just before I shipped it back to him. I let it run for a few hours, and then put MY stock unit back in. I couldn't listen to it. There was no music playing, just sound. All of the full, rich tonality that makes music was gone. I then spent my weekend modding my own DAC. Since it has been back in my system, I am listening to music.

[Bill@LakeGeorge]

I posted my comparison of the level 2 mods to the .25 modded dac here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80555.msg890344#msg890344

It relly need time to burn in I have ove 300 hours now and it is amazing.  I don't know all the adjectives or superlatives to use but it's good.

Wayne, what I don't understand is you kicking Robin off this thread, he has been a fan of this dac since day 1 and a big reason of me having you mod my dac.  As far as I know he has always valued your work.

[Gopher]

Holy crap.  Another day of straight IsoTek is doing this thing wonders.  I don't know that my cleanest audiophile vinyl sounds this impressive and holographic. 

holy crap! 

[Berto]

Holy crap.  Another day of straight IsoTek is doing this thing wonders.  I don't know that my cleanest audiophile vinyl sounds this impressive and holographic. 

holy crap!

That is awesome! Your comments have got my attention and I cannot wait to hang and listen.

[MttBsh]

I'm a big fan of EE products (I own and love the Minimax pre) and am looking at replacing my AudioSector DAC - excellent performer but likely outranked by the new crop of DACs discussed in this thread.

One DAC I've not seen mentioned here is the one that seems to be creating the most buzz here on AC - The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC, which sells for about the same price as Wayne's modded version of the EE Dac. These seem like two of the best digital solutions available today under $2K - curious if anyone has thoughts on how the two might compare.

Thanks, Matt