Tim Tebow, Really?

woodsyi · « **on:** 23 Apr 2010, 05:48 pm »

I am lost for words.

How are the Bronco fans taking this?

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 06:11 pm »

As a 50-year Bronco fan (my father took me to the very first Bronco game, vertical socks and all), I love the selection. Character matters as does leadership and Tebow excels in both areas. I believe Tebow's leadership characteristics, his team first attitude and work ethic will rub off on his team mates. He's been a winner his entire life--why would now be any different?

I also think Demaryius Thomas is a great selection. He overcame his mother and grandmother getting busted for running a cocaine ring when he was 12 (grandma got 40 years and his mother 20). Plus he is fast, athletic and can catch.

Bowlen is a good owner and while the jury is definitely out on Josh McDaniels, I likewhat he has done so far. Only time will tell.

zybar · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 06:22 pm »

Quote from: vinyl_lady on 23 Apr 2010, 06:11 pm

As a 50-year Bronco fan (my father took me to the very first Bronco game, vertical socks and all), I love the selection. Character matters as does leadership and Tebow excels in both areas. I believe Tebow's leadership characteristics, his team first attitude and work ethic will rub off on his team mates. He's been a winner his entire life--why would now be any different?

I also think Demaryius Thomas is a great selection. He overcame his mother and grandmother getting busted for running a cocaine ring when he was 12 (grandma got 40 years and his mother 20). Plus he is fast, athletic and can catch.

Bowlen is a good owner and while the jury is definitely out on Josh McDaniels, I likewhat he has done so far. Only time will tell.

Sorry, but having played sports through high school and club level at college, I think the character part is highly overrated. Winning builds character and team chemistry.

As for work ethic...let's not fool ourselves and think the majority of these players aren't working their asses off. They made it to the NFL and stay in the NFL because of their work ethic. Only a handful of players have enough talent to get by with only so-so work ethic.

Let's say for a second that I believe that Tebow has the leadership skills, work ethic, yada, yada, yada, that everybody says is a level different from everybody out there. It won't amount to a hill of beans when he is riding the bench and not the lead QB. Does anybody really believe his impact can be anything other than minimal or non-existent if he can't get on the field?

I think the right question to be asking is why was Tim Tebow drafted in the 1st round?? Generally speaking, this is not where you draft "projects". Players drafted in the 1st round are expected to make an immediate impact to their team. Even if Tebow is used in some type of wildcat type scheme, it would seem that the Broncos could have received a lot more value for that pick.

George

Randy · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 06:29 pm »

Denver fans ( of all their sports) are good at deluding themselves. After Elway left there have been a string of overrated saviors at qb, all of whom, I was told by Bronco fans, was the next great NFL qb. Griese, then Plummer, the interception king. Then it was going to be Cutler. Then Orton. Now Tebow. What a joke.

S Clark · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 06:35 pm »

He can't hold the ball as long in the NFL, and his days of consistantly sidestepping onrushing linebackers is probably over as well. He better get a faster delivery quickly or his NFL career may be a short one.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 06:41 pm »

Quote from: S Clark on 23 Apr 2010, 06:35 pm

He can't hold the ball as long in the NFL, and his days of consistantly sidestepping onrushing linebackers is probably over as well. He better get a faster delivery quickly or his NFL career may be a short one.

He also needs to learn how to play under center. Watching him at the Senior Bowl and hearing the critics'comments, it sounds like everything from his footwork, to how he takes the snap, to where he holds the ball is not at a "pro level". He also needs to learn how to throw to receivers who aren't wide open. At Florida, his surrounding talent at the skills position was generally far superior to his opponents. This translated into providing easier opportunities for Tebow. While all college QB's need to make this transition, it appears that Tebow has a much steeper learning slope to climb. Especially for a 1st round draft pick.

George

macrojack · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 07:07 pm »

Since nobody else has asked this question, I will. Why choose a QB to back up Orton and Brady Quinn? Is Chris Simms still on the team?

I agree with George about all the character and work ethic blather. I don't know Tim Tebow as well as some of you think you do. I've never even met him. Maybe you guys are just parroting what the sports media is saying. He may prove to be the second coming but he more likely will spend his career as a clipboard holder. The wholesome All-American image is just as stupid and tiresome as the gangsta schtick.
As a society we get way too caught up in hero worship --- and its opposite, demonizing.

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 07:08 pm »

Quote from: Randy on 23 Apr 2010, 06:29 pm

Denver fans ( of all their sports) are good at deluding themselves. After Elway left there have been a string of overrated saviors at qb, all of whom, I was told by Bronco fans, was the next great NFL qb. Griese, then Plummer, the interception king. Then it was going to be Cutler. Then Orton. Now Tebow. What a joke.

Not all Bronco fans thought any of those except possibly Cutler had the potential to be a great NFL QB. Cutler has a great arm, but so did Jeff George. Time will tell

arthurs · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 07:18 pm »

I can't recall, who is the last really solid pro quarterback to come out of University of Florida's system? Oh that's right....none.....

macrojack · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 07:27 pm »

Griese showed up with a great college resume and hid daddy's super bowl pedigree. Hopes were high.
Jake the Snake was believed to be the answer because he had significant success despite no team behind him in Arizona. And he surely had his shining moments.
The biggest problem is that Elway was arguably the greatest QB in NFL history. He had to deal with having Dan Reeves for a coach most of his career. Shanahan was badly overrated primarily because he got lucky enough to have Terrell Davis and John Elway at the same time. Even though Elway was past his prime by then, he still had enough left to win 2 consecutive Super Bowls. After that, I think Shanahan won maybe one playoff game in the next 10 seasons.
It appears to me that McDaniels is going to be much better for Denver than any coach since Red Miller. Give him time.
And keep in mind that he has a rep for knowing the QB position, which might explain or justify choosing Tebow so early.
If it were another team, I might cynically conclude that they are just trying to fill seats but the Broncos have one of the best attendance histories in the League.

woodsyi · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 07:47 pm »

I don't really know a whole lot about Tebow. I have only seen a few games and he looked like a person who gets into the rhythm of the game and perform. But after reading about him from bunch of publications, I can't help but to compare him to Danny Wuerffel. We know it did not work out for Danny in the NFL. I wish Tebow the best but I am not optimistic for him. If it's so easy to change your throwing mechanics to please the pros, don't you think Eric Crouch would've done it?

macrojack · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 08:10 pm »

Good points, Woodsyi. This is the time of year for prognostication. Everybody becomes a "Draft Expert". Meanwhile, the realities begin to play out later.
That's when the Rod Smith and Terrell Davis stories emerge and the "draft experts" recede into the woodwork until the following Spring. Happens like clockwork. And I agree with you and everyone else who questions the wisdom of choosing TT so high.
Did Bernie Kosar come out of Florida? If so, he was solid.

arthurs · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 08:12 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 23 Apr 2010, 08:10 pm

Did Bernie Kosar come out of Florida? If so, he was solid.

Nope Tom, Bernie was Univ. of Miami, and agree he was a solid QB....

sanjaygolf · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 08:14 pm »

I am a Gator and I'm very proud that Tebow got selected in the first round. There's a reason why he gets all the publicity he does and is arguably the most lauded football player ever. His level of intensity and passion for the game is unrivaled. Of course there are negatives that can be pointed out about his passing motion and footwork but it doesnt mean he can't improve. In college those flaws weren't that obvious and his success didn't really warrant any change. But I do know he will strive to make himself better and be the best he can be. Seriously, is there anything about him physically or mentally that would lead you to believe he's an instant flop? I dont think so.

zybar · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 08:21 pm »

Quote from: sanjaygolf on 23 Apr 2010, 08:14 pm

Seriously, is there anything about him physically or mentally that would lead you to believe he's an instant flop? I dont think so.

See the previous posts and read almost all of the professional analysis.

Just because he was a great college player (possibly the best ever), doesn't mean he will succeed in the NFL. In fact, recent history has shown that many of the outstanding college QB's have been major flops in the NFL.

Wanting something to be true, doesn't make it so.

George

macrojack · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 08:30 pm »

The Broncos have Brady Quinn. A couple of years ago the people who are wondering why Tebow was chosen so high were wondering why Quinn was chosen so low. And everybody thought the Broncos were doomed for replacing Cutler with Orton. That turned out pretty well. Just pretty well.
The Broncos will probably have a very high pick to trade away next Spring.

ctviggen · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 09:17 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 23 Apr 2010, 08:21 pm

See the previous posts and read almost all of the professional analysis.

Just because he was a great college player (possibly the best ever), doesn't mean he will succeed in the NFL. In fact, recent history has shown that many of the outstanding college QB's have been major flops in the NFL.

Wanting something to be true, doesn't make it so.

George

Nor does using history to make a point. History is immaterial. Put it this way. No male in history has ever won more than 13 grand slams (tennis), therefore no man ever will. Oh wait, Federer did win more than 13 grand slams.

So, the history may be that the last 1,000,000 college quarterbacks meeting certain criteria haven't made it in the NFL, but that says nothing about this quarterback. Now, if you want to argue about height, speed, delivery, etc., those are valid points. But using history to do this is not a valid point.

zybar · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 09:31 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen on 23 Apr 2010, 09:17 pm

Nor does using history to make a point. History is immaterial. Put it this way. No male in history has ever won more than 13 grand slams (tennis), therefore no man ever will. Oh wait, Federer did win more than 13 grand slams.

So, the history may be that the last 1,000,000 college quarterbacks meeting certain criteria haven't made it in the NFL, but that says nothing about this quarterback. Now, if you want to argue about height, speed, delivery, etc., those are valid points. But using history to do this is not a valid point.

Bob,

Don't agree with you (especially since you twisted what I said).

I never claimed history produced an absolute. In fact, I said it has shown that many (not all) of the top QB's have been flops. I never said history absolutely shows that Tebow will be a flop.

Using your example but my assertion (not your absolute assertion), history has shown us that is very unlikely for a male tennis player to win 13 or more Grand Slam events. Analyzing the history (or data) shouldn't lead one to say it couldn't or wouldn't happen; rather that is that it is unlikely to happen.

Back to Tebow...

Knowing that the majority of QB's selected in the 1st round over the last 15 years have not succeeded, I am using some of the other data points you mentioned (plus others) to offer an opinion that Tebow will fall into the camp that fails rather than succeeds. Is it purely scientific? Of course not. But none of this is.

George

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 09:56 pm »

George! George! George!!

Yes including me many don't think Tebow will cut the mustard as a pro QB.

BUT!!!. He is a leader and a WINNER!!.

Nuff said.

Cheers
Charlie

zybar · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 10:03 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins on 23 Apr 2010, 09:56 pm

George! George! George!!

Yes including me many don't think Tebow will cut the mustard as a pro QB.

BUT!!!. He is a leader and a WINNER!!.

Nuff said.

Cheers
Charlie

Charlie,

Always glad to have you guide me back to the truth.

How could I have been thinking otherwise?

I'll write it on the chalkboard 100 times - Tim Tebow is a leader and winner

George