[nicksgem10s]

I think Tebow was a very good college player and was lucky to be in a system coached by Urban Meyer.

I think the speed, strength, and skill level of pro athletes are going to provide a very rude awakening for Tim.

I have no problem with him but do not picture him as an NFL quarterback.

The Florida team seemed to overpower their opponents regularly.  That won't happen with his Bronco team.

Do we know for sure that he was drafted to play the QB position? 

He is a very good athlete but I don't see him being a successful NFL QB. 

He could be used in the wildcat or in special goal line situations where they use run-pass option plays.

Those formations and styles seem to be growing in popularity in recent years. 

-Nick

[TheChairGuy]

Sorry, but having played sports through high school and club level at college, I think the character part is highly overrated.  Winning builds character and team chemistry. 

George

I only wish it weren't...but this is so, so true, George

Basketball is a lot easier to see this as their are less pieces to the puzzle.  So rarely can a 6' guard take a team to the promised land.  Talented big guys typically win championships...no matter the 'character' part of it.

Once you win, tagging a player with the 'thug' label tends to fade.

As far as Tebow being a can't miss prospect...time will tell 

John

[Kevin Haskins]

I think is was a gutsy pick.   It is your prototypical high risk--high reward draft pick.   McDaniels is supposed to be Mr. QB so maybe he thinks he can teach him the missing parts of the puzzle and that the what he needs is the physical, mental and attitude to work with.    If you look at it from that perspective the kid is built like a LB and can outrun most CBs.     If he learns the passing skills he could make McDaniels look like a sage.    With Orton playing pretty good he doesn't have to come in and make an immediate contribution so it may be a good fit.    You could make the argument that they could have got him later but evidently McDaniels wanted him bad enough not to take any chances.   

Or.... he could be a big flop.   Only time will tell but it is hard not to pull for the kid.   After spending time reading about dirt-bags like Big Ben and other thugs that play at the professional level I'm glad to see someone get rewarded for being an outstanding player AND and outstanding person.

[S Clark]

The biggest problem is that Elway was arguably the greatest QB in NFL history.

  Ah, macrojack.  You always entertain. 

My bet is that Bradford will be the best of the bunch based on talent, McCoy will be next based on intelligence and work ethic, and Tebow will be a distant third.  Colt is a very bright and determined young man. 

[macrojack]

S Clark - Do you have something intelligent to contribute? A rebuttal? Counterproposal? An alternate suggestion? Reasoning of some sort? Or just non-specific mockery.

Elway played away his prime under Dan Reeves who always built up a big early lead and then squandered it by playing conservatively. Frequently Elway was able to recover the lead on a final drive or two. I believe he is now second to Peyton Manning or maybe Favre for comeback victories. Reeves might very well have gotten Michael Vick off on the wrong foot as well. He was a terrible coach for the Giants and Falcons as well as the Broncos.

[Bigfish]

I believed Tebow would be selected in the first round and I think Denver is a great situation for him.  He is going to a team where he will not be required to perform year one and he will have a coach that knows how to develop him for the pro game.  Most of what we think of as great quarterbacks when to solid teams where they did not have the weight of a starting job trust on them as rookies.  Look what happened to Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning their rookie years.  Most teams today would not tolerate those type of performances and yet look what great quarterbacks they developed into.

I think Tebow will develop into a great pro and we will look back at in 3 to 4 years and think what a great deal Denver made to draft him.

Ken

[macrojack]

I hope you're right, Ken. Despite the early season success last year, things don't look too good in Bronco land. And there is some serious building going on around the AFC. Indy, N.E. and S.D. are still strong. The Jets, Dolphins, Ravens are becoming frightening. Cincy, K.C., Texans, Titans and Steelers are all either building or regrouping. I'm afraid the Broncos need a couple of miracles to reach .500 this season. You know, things like the Stokeley completion against the Bengals last year and the blown call by Hochuli against the Chargers two years ago.

[S Clark]

S Clark - Do you have something intelligent to contribute? A rebuttal? Counterproposal? An alternate suggestion? Reasoning of some sort? Or just non-specific mockery.

Elway played away his prime under Dan Reeves who always built up a big early lead and then squandered it by playing conservatively. Frequently Elway was able to recover the lead on a final drive or two. I believe he is now second to Peyton Manning or maybe Favre for comeback victories. Reeves might very well have gotten Michael Vick off on the wrong foot as well. He was a terrible coach for the Giants and Falcons as well as the Broncos.

Yes, I think your comment is ill informed.  Elway was perhaps a top ten, definitely not top 5 quarterback.  Marino, Montana, Unitas, Manning, Brady, Staubach, Young, Namath, Starr, Fouts, Archie Manning.
And yes, non specific mockery is also part of my response to your "Best Ever" comment.

[macrojack]

I said, "ARGUABLY" best ever. Nothing definitive there. In fact, that statement doesn't even indicate that I think it's true. But it does affirm that I think the point could be argued.
Everyone on your list has left a heavy mark on the NFL but few will top Elway on stats or championships. He probably is not at the top in many, if any, categories but he will be near the top in all of them.

[Bigfish]

Yes, I think your comment is ill informed.  Elway was perhaps a top ten, definitely not top 5 quarterback.  Marino, Montana, Unitas, Manning, Brady, Staubach, Young, Namath, Starr, Fouts, Archie Manning.

I think you have to include Terry Bradshaw in the group as the man does own 4 Superbowl Rings and called his own plays!

Ken

[macrojack]

That's a strong argument for putting Bradshaw at the top.

[geezer]

"Winning builds character"?   I haven't noticed.

[jqp]

All I heard was Tebow maybe in the 3rd round. Come on, the guy won the Heisman trophy, and Denver sure thinks he can make a contribution. There are plenty of college players in all sports that proved the conventional wisdom wrong about them making it at the next lelvel. I would withhold judgment on this guy.

[jimdgoulding]

Didn't want to open another topic so permit me to just tack this on here.  When the season started last year, I was highly critical of the Monday Night announcers.  Seemed like you had two color commentors, Gruden and Jaworski, that were on top of each other.  Later, they began to develop their timing and became much more effective to me.  Gruden became very good at giving perspective to things on the field that I hadn't heard the likes of before.  Madden never offered as much info and detail.  I wound up liking these guys.

Ok, to the moment.  On ESPN this morning, Gruden and Jimmy Claussen were taped watching films of Claussen at play.  Boy, Gruden was insightful and his expertise was in full evidence.  He was coaching the lad about pro defensive backs.  Liked what I saw.  You'd have thought he was a quarterback coach.  Thanks

I'm in the camp that Tebow will develop.

[macrojack]

NFL is just a stopoff for Tebow anyway - he's headed for politics, sure as shootin'.
I like Gruden too. But all those guys and every other sports announcer use way too many cliches for my taste.

[woodsyi]

All I heard was Tebow maybe in the 3rd round. Come on, the guy won the Heisman trophy, and Denver sure thinks he can make a contribution. There are plenty of college players in all sports that proved the conventional wisdom wrong about them making it at the next lelvel. I would withhold judgment on this guy.

As a project, he should have been a later pick.  It was a waste of a 1st round pick when he could have been had at a later round.  I hope the project works out for Denver.  Whether he does or doesn't change the fact that I think Denver could have traded down to get another pick or two and still get him.

[macrojack]

I believe Denver traded UP to get him after trading down twice earlier in the round with SF and Philly.

[zybar]

All I heard was Tebow maybe in the 3rd round. Come on, the guy won the Heisman trophy, and Denver sure thinks he can make a contribution. There are plenty of college players in all sports that proved the conventional wisdom wrong about them making it at the next lelvel. I would withhold judgment on this guy.

Winning the Heisman Trophy doesn't directly correlate into NFL success.  Take a look at the list below of Heisman winner's since 1980 and you will see that the majority didn't have any real impact in the NFL. 

Here is some quick analysis (not counting the last three winners who haven't played in the NFL yet):

- 14 out of the last 26 players had no to poor NFL careers
-  8 out of the last 26 players had good to very good NFL careers
-  4 out of the last 26 players had Hall of Fame NFL careers

If you just look at the QB position, the Heisman means even less when trying to determine future success in the NFL:

-  10 out of the last 13 QB's have had no to poor NFL careers
-   3 out of the last 13 QB's have had good NFL careers

George

2009   Mark Ingram       Alabama              RB 2008   Sam Bradford      Oklahoma              QB 2007   Tim Tebow              Florida         QB 2006   Troy Smith              Ohio State              QB 2005   Reggie Bush              Southern California   RB 2004   Matt Leinart      Southern California   QB 2003   Jason White      Oklahoma              QB 2002   Carson Palmer      Southern California   QB 2001   Eric Crouch              Nebraska              QB 2000   Chris Weinke      Florida State      QB 1999   Ron Dayne              Wisconsin              RB 1998   Ricky Williams           Texas                 RB 1997   Charles Woodson           Michigan              DB/WR 1996   Danny Wuerffel           Florida         QB 1995   Eddie George      Ohio State              RB 1994   Rashaan Salaam           Colorado              RB 1993   Charlie Ward      Florida State      QB 1992   Gino Torretta      Miami                 QB 1991   Desmond Howard           Michigan              WR 1990   Ty Detmer              Brigham Young           QB 1989   Andre Ware              Houston              QB 1988   Barry Sanders      Oklahoma State           RB 1987   Tim Brown              Notre Dame              WR 1986   Vinny Testaverde           Miami                 QB 1985   Bo Jackson              Auburn              RB 1984   Doug Flutie              Boston College           QB 1983   Mike Rozier              Nebraska              RB 1982   Herschel Walker           Georgia              RB 1981   Marcus Allen      Southern California   RB 1980   George Rogers           South Carolina           RB

[droht]

The problem with the Tebow pick is that it is not "high risk; high reward".  That would at least make some sense.  To me it is more like Denver is taking a substantial risk that he will be a clipboard carrying bust, with the upside not being Elway but more like a slightly above average NFL QB with exceptional character who is a great leader.  I don't want to underestimate leadership skills, but if Tebow can't get his wideouts the ball where he needs to it's not going to matter how much anyone wants to play for him.

[Affordable$$Audio]

First off, I've been a Broncos fan for 40+ years, and have gone to games since the triple deck west stands were erected at the original Mile High Stadium back in 1971.

I've had the opportunity to get to know several players over the years and I will tell you that there are a few positions that require the player to be of high character and have true leadership in order for the team to succeed and the QB position is one of them.

I do think that Tebow, in the big picture of things was picked too high.  But in the case of the Broncos, his pick came about thru dealing down and gaining picks that eventually allowed them to move back into the first round.  There is no question that he will need time to develop.  If he doesn't, with his natural physical skills he could be turned into an effective h-back. But to dismiss him outright is foolish.

As for where Elway stands among the greats, was he the best pure passer, No.  Was he the most intelligent field general, No.  Did he have the best talent around him year in and year out, Not until the 98 & 99 seasons.  Like all the great ones he had a knack for winning and making the players around him better.

Reeves was a very good, but not a great coach, he had an excellent sense of discipline, but the Dallas offense he ran was past it's prime.  It didn't have the blow out capability.  Shanahan is a great coach, he understood when he came in what pieces were needed, that a powerful run game demoralized other teams, and how to game plan for specific teams.  His weakness is that he thought he could coach limited talent to great levels, especially defensively.