What if?

ian.ameline · « **Reply #40 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 01:50 pm »

Quote from: JeffO on 27 Jan 2010, 01:10 am

The problems with counterfeit parts are not limited to China. It is rapidly becoming the number one problem in the Aerospace industry in North America.

In the Space industry we now only buy electronic parts and raw materials directly from the foundries without the middlemen. Even then we test everything, including aluminium, to ensure it is what we think it is.

To maintain Bryston's current build quality would be difficult enough if they moved production to Markham, let alone moving it across the world to China.

And there are counterfeit versions circulating of the output transistors that Bryston uses in their amps.

http://sound.westhost.com/fake/counterfeit-p3.htm#mjl21193

-- Ian.

Laundrew · « **Reply #41 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 03:51 pm »

Quote from: Waker on 27 Jan 2010, 10:08 am

Please don't turn this around on us consumers, as if we are to blame. It is obvious over the past two years that there are no ethical standards in China, where they see no problem in shipping wallboard used in homes that emit toxic fumes, toys laden with heavy metals, infant formula extended with inorganic compounds, and any name-brand product line that can be copied, bootlegged, pirated and sold as "authentic". Not to mention a nearly complete lack of labor laws, environmental regulations and, as mentioned, consumer protection laws. Combine all this with the the world-wide business trend of seeking the cheapest labor on the globe, and what you get is what we have on our hands now. And cheap prices? That is a laugh. Try to find a good pair of shoes for less than $60, or a shirt or pair of pants for less than $40. Try to leave Target without having spent $100 on a few household items, all made in China! You sound as if Nike and Columbia are actually trying to pass on the savings, when they are really fleecing us all.

Well said Waker!

Be well...

bummrush · « **Reply #42 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 03:57 pm »

How many Toyota owners are getting their gas pedals checked and looked at,seems they are having quite a problem there

Laundrew · « **Reply #43 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 04:17 pm »

Quote from: bummrush on 27 Jan 2010, 03:57 pm

How many Toyota owners are getting their gas pedals checked and looked at,seems they are having quite a problem there

My Toyota (made in Canada, eh?) approaching 350,000 Kilometres is still fine - this recall does not affect my car but I am very interested to learn more about this problem.

Be well...

rollo · « **Reply #44 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 04:27 pm »

OK your in business. Union labor,benifits, enviormental costs, high corporate taxes, Gov't regulations, trade agreements and the like weigh heavily on US manufacturing. So what to do. Look elsewhere for inexpensive labor and less interference. The system is set up that way. Really cannot blame the Manfs.
It is amost impossible to compete with labor from other countries. Lower the corporate tax rate, exercise real tarriffs on imported goods just like those countries do to our products.
What is the consumer to do ? look at the UK with its VAT. You want a product from outside the UK you pay dearly. Its a game in which I believe we have no say. If the structure changes the place of origin changes.
Instead of going through distributors [ if one] and dealers a substantial savings can be had of better than 40%. That 28B would be quite the deal.
Bryston is known world wide so no problem. With no need for dealers, direct sales might be considered if you really want to lower the prices. Its all up to Bryston, time to think outside the box.

charles

1ZIP · « **Reply #45 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 04:30 pm »

Apparently there are/were two issues. One, the problem with the floor mats and the second with a component(s) and/or design of the throttle assembly. The latter prompting the production halt on some models until the assembly can be redesigned. Per Fox news.

Laundrew · « **Reply #46 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 04:35 pm »

Quote from: 1ZIP on 27 Jan 2010, 04:30 pm

Apparently there are/were two issues. One, the problem with the floor mats and the second with a component(s) and/or design of the throttle assembly. The latter prompting the production halt on some models until the assembly can be redesigned. Per Fox news.

Thanks 1ZIP

Be well...

95Dyna · « **Reply #47 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 04:39 pm »

Quote from: Waker on 27 Jan 2010, 10:08 am

Please don't turn this around on us consumers, as if we are to blame. It is obvious over the past two years that there are no ethical standards in China, where they see no problem in shipping wallboard used in homes that emit toxic fumes, toys laden with heavy metals, infant formula extended with inorganic compounds, and any name-brand product line that can be copied, bootlegged, pirated and sold as "authentic". Not to mention a nearly complete lack of labor laws, environmental regulations and, as mentioned, consumer protection laws. Combine all this with the the world-wide business trend of seeking the cheapest labor on the globe, and what you get is what we have on our hands now. And cheap prices? That is a laugh. Try to find a good pair of shoes for less than $60, or a shirt or pair of pants for less than $40. Try to leave Target without having spent $100 on a few household items, all made in China! You sound as if Nike and Columbia are actually trying to pass on the savings, when they are really fleecing us all.

In a free market economy saying we are getting fleeced by a company is like saying the person who set the trap killed the mouse. If you don't like or can't afford the price of something then simply don't buy it. In other words, be smarter than a mouse! Prices are set by the law of supply and demand. We don't have any control over supply but we sure do over demand. Reducing it is the only way to bring prices down. Not everything is made in China. It may take some effort and possibly sacrifice but just don't buy anything made there if you can help it.

Daniel Datchev · « **Reply #48 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 04:50 pm »

Hi rollo,
I personally bought my BCD-1, B-100SST and PMC-OB1i on paper without auditioning, but many wouldn't do this.
If I have to do it again I will buy again without auditioning because I trust those company. I believe they will maintain the standard high.
Daniel

rollo · « **Reply #49 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 05:39 pm »

Quote from: Daniel Datchev on 27 Jan 2010, 04:50 pm

Hi rollo,
I personally bought my BCD-1, B-100SST and PMC-OB1i on paper without auditioning, but many wouldn't do this.
If I have to do it again I will buy again without auditioning because I trust those company. I believe they will maintain the standard high.
Daniel

Exactly my point. Home audition could be a thirty day money back guarantee or a rep brings it into your home for a small fee which would be waived if purchased. I would make an apponitment and pay for it. OOH the Bryston truck is here!

charles

geezer · « **Reply #50 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 08:02 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 27 Jan 2010, 04:27 pm

OK your in business. Union labor,benifits, enviormental costs, high corporate taxes, Gov't regulations, trade agreements and the like weigh heavily on US manufacturing. So what to do. Look elsewhere for inexpensive labor and less interference. The system is set up that way. Really cannot blame the Manfs.
It is amost impossible to compete with labor from other countries. Lower the corporate tax rate, exercise real tarriffs on imported goods just like those countries do to our products.
What is the consumer to do ? look at the UK with its VAT. You want a product from outside the UK you pay dearly. Its a game in which I believe we have no say. If the structure changes the place of origin changes.
Instead of going through distributors [ if one] and dealers a substantial savings can be had of better than 40%. That 28B would be quite the deal.
Bryston is known world wide so no problem. With no need for dealers, direct sales might be considered if you really want to lower the prices. Its all up to Bryston, time to think outside the box.

charles

I don't quite understand why (domestic) manufacturing companies are taxed. The consumer ends up paying it anyway, so why not eliminate corporate taxes in favor of sales taxes on the buyer? I would favor taxing that portion of the business that is outsourced, as well as its CO2 output however.

I suspect the main reason is political. Companies don't vote; individual buyers do. The cowards in Washington wouldn't go for it.

Of course I don't know all the pros and cons. I'd like to hear from an economist on this issue.

rollo · « **Reply #51 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 05:13 pm »

The existing busines in audio model IMO needs some tweaking. I would love to see a "Bryston" store in NYC. Yes just Bryston gear and the speaker line or lines that enhance the Bryston sound. Package deals on complete systems. Synergy up the ying yang. Even their own cabling. A system for every budget. A trade up mechcanism and a "Pre Owned" with warrantee division. Best of all worlds under one roof with proper marketing to bring the average Joe in as well as us nuts. A thought anyway.

charles

turkey · « **Reply #52 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 05:38 pm »

Quote from: Waker on 27 Jan 2010, 10:08 am

Please don't turn this around on us consumers, as if we are to blame. It is obvious over the past two years that there are no ethical standards in China, where they see no problem in shipping wallboard used in homes that emit toxic fumes, toys laden with heavy metals, infant formula extended with inorganic compounds, and any name-brand product line that can be copied, bootlegged, pirated and sold as "authentic". Not to mention a nearly complete lack of labor laws, environmental regulations and, as mentioned, consumer protection laws. Combine all this with the the world-wide business trend of seeking the cheapest labor on the globe, and what you get is what we have on our hands now. And cheap prices? That is a laugh. Try to find a good pair of shoes for less than $60, or a shirt or pair of pants for less than $40. Try to leave Target without having spent $100 on a few household items, all made in China! You sound as if Nike and Columbia are actually trying to pass on the savings, when they are really fleecing us all.

If we wanted those things from China, they would quickly supply them.

We have those things from companies in the US, and yet people don't buy US products.

If you object to Chinese goods or business practices or whatever, then put your money where your mouth is.

I agree that part of the problem is corporate business practices and lack of responsibility, but the citizens of the US don't seem to want to do anything about that, so maybe they all like it.

turkey · « **Reply #53 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 05:41 pm »

Quote from: geezer on 27 Jan 2010, 08:02 pm

I suspect the main reason is political. Companies don't vote; individual buyers do. The cowards in Washington wouldn't go for it.

Companies don't vote, but they do have a huge influence on our elected officials.

An interesting read is "The People's Business."

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Business-Controlling-Corporations-Restoring/dp/1576753093

turkey · « **Reply #54 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 05:45 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 27 Jan 2010, 04:27 pm

Instead of going through distributors [ if one] and dealers a substantial savings can be had of better than 40%. That 28B would be quite the deal.
Bryston is known world wide so no problem. With no need for dealers, direct sales might be considered if you really want to lower the prices. Its all up to Bryston, time to think outside the box.

This would mean undercutting their whole dealer network. Most of these dealers have had a good business relationship with Bryston for a long time, and you can't just shaft them. (If nothing else, they're part of what got Bryston where they are today.)

Bryston itself would also have to get a lot bigger to handle all the customers directly. Since they'd be slashing retail prices 40% I'm not sure they'd be able to afford to grow like that.

I could see them coming up with a new brand and selling that directly. But they'd have to make sure it didn't compete with the current brand.

95Dyna · « **Reply #55 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 07:34 pm »

Quote from: Laundrew on 27 Jan 2010, 04:17 pm

My Toyota (made in Canada, eh?) approaching 350,000 Kilometres is still fine - this recall does not affect my car but I am very interested to learn more about this problem.

Be well...

Made in Canada means "final assembly" takes place in a Canadian plant. The source of the Toyota recalls is the gas pedal assembly on all models. This assembly in manufactured in, that's right you guessed it, China. So the Toyota situation is a perfect example of what this thread is saying. Why would Toyota choose to build its cars in one of the world's greatest countries and take a chance on including even one Chinese component (especially one that can propel the car forward uncontrolabley)?

rollo · « **Reply #56 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 08:03 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 28 Jan 2010, 05:45 pm

This would mean undercutting their whole dealer network. Most of these dealers have had a good business relationship with Bryston for a long time, and you can't just shaft them. (If nothing else, they're part of what got Bryston where they are today.)

Bryston itself would also have to get a lot bigger to handle all the customers directly. Since they'd be slashing retail prices 40% I'm not sure they'd be able to afford to grow like that.

I could see them coming up with a new brand and selling that directly. But they'd have to make sure it didn't compete with the current brand.

I disagree. Bryston got where Byrston is because of their sound and quality bulid. A 40% reduction is just cutting the dealer out. The magazines describe their products well enough to cause interest. Bryston would make the same profit. Now dealer loyalty is definitly a considertion I must admit. However business is business [ tough call, cause we know Bryston has a heart] and the innovative thinkers stay in business. Maybe only a new "Master Series" or the like could be for the highend shops. They could even RAISE the price for the highend. Say a new 29B+ or something with a Pre, DAC , etc.

charles

rollo · « **Reply #57 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 08:05 pm »

Quote from: 95Dyna on 28 Jan 2010, 07:34 pm

Made in Canada means "final assembly" takes place in a Canadian plant. The source of the Toyota recalls is the gas pedal assembly on all models. This assembly in manufactured in, that's right you guessed it, China. So the Toyota situation is a perfect example of what this thread is saying. Why would Toyota choose to build its cars in one of the world's greatest countries and take a chance on including even one Chinese component (especially one that can propel the car forward uncontrolabley)?

Da moola da moola instead they got the foola. Cheap labor is cheap labor no matter what. Live and learn.

charles

konut · « **Reply #58 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 09:18 pm »

.....the Pope grew his hair long and smoked dope in public? He'd lose the respect of most people and gain the respect of some. But nobody would trust what he'd say. Bryston built in China would not be Bryston anymore.

95Dyna · « **Reply #59 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 09:37 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 28 Jan 2010, 08:05 pm

Da moola da moola instead they got the foola. Cheap labor is cheap labor no matter what. Live and learn.

charles

Right Charles and Toyota is going to be shelling out boatloads of moola to fix this mess. I wonder how the cost would compare to having the gas pedal assembly manufactured in Canada/US/Japan et al in the first place. And the monetary cost is just the beginning, what's this going to do with their hard earned reputation.