[rob80b]

"What goes around comes around"
With the way things are going it's possible that in 10-15 years China will be farming out manufacturing to poorer countries like the US and Canada.

[James Tanner]

I continually tell my friends that taking the "means of production" off shore may in the short term lower prices and allow you to purchase 'goods' cheaper. But, this race to the bottom only results in less quality jobs, lower wages and eventually no job or some service job that pays minimum wage. What good is a great price if you have no way of paying any amount because your broke!

james

[Daniel Datchev]

Hi James,
I friend father to my younger daughter's friend deals with China. Mainly remote controlled toys like cars and helicopters. He has offered me to buy a watch by brand Patek Philippe made in China to which I refused. I wish to have the money to buy original watch, but give no shit about counterfeited items.If this is licenses goods produced in China I may agree. But in most cases I am very suspicious about the quality. I know that Bryston CD driver is made in China, just bacause Philips has a manufacture there.
Daniel

[James Tanner]

Hi James,
I friend father to my younger daughter's friend deals with China. Mainly remote controlled toys like cars and helicopters. He has offered me to buy a watch by brand Patek Philippe made in China to which I refused. I wish to have the money to buy original watch, but give no shit about counterfeited items.If this is licenses goods produced in China I may agree. But in most cases I am very suspicious about the quality. I know that Bryston CD driver is made in China, just bacause Philips has a manufacture there.
Daniel

Hi Daniel,

We buy the drives from 'Daisy' in Europe but they may as you say source them in China - not sure?

james

[predrag]

Through the time I beleive there will be opposite trend and manufacturing will be moving back to original countries. There are way too many parameters (not only manufacturing) that can not be controlled 100% when producing abroad in cheap labour countries.
There is even worse situation when a respected brand relabels products made by someone else in China and multiplying the price several times. Many discussions recently on the web about these scandals.

[alexone]

I have the same fear guys - I grew up 'expecting' to have a better lifestyle than my parents. My two sons do not.

james

James,

i've been often to Canada and the Canadians have a very good lifestyle/standard. maybe i misunderstand you here...but why should your sons have to expect a lifestyle that is "bad"?

al.

[sfraser]

Interesting true story about manf. in China. A particular Business Unit of a company sent some reps over to a manf. plant in China to discuss the option of moving more manf. over to this facility. A couple of the topics/concerns  that came up in the meeting  was "build quaility issues " caused from  subbing in or sourcing parts from different manf. without any regard to the original product spec, and "customer perceived quaility". The response was something like this. As they told the business unit rep in English that they would no longer source parts from different sources, another VP was telling his co worker (in chinese)  to carry on as usual don't pay any attention. Regarding the customer perceived quaility of chinese manf. goods the response was simple........"what country would you like stamped on the product as company of origin"

[turkey]

I think the problem is not so much the Chinese as it is having things produced by the lowest bidder.

Like most other countries, the Chinese will make good products if that's what you ask them to do. They will also make products to a price point, and that's where the problem lies. If it's obvious that the reason you are choosing China is because of price, then they will work very hard to reduce prices. Since the laws may not be as strict in China or enforcement may be spotty, they may cut corners that would not be cut somewhere else like the US or Canada.

But we as consumers are the ones who want low prices, so we're the ones that encourage cutting corners. If you want cheap, you're going to get cheap.

I've seen this with cutlery. Not so long ago, Japanese cutlery was seen as inferior. The stuff being imported into the US was pretty crappy. Then Pete Gerber went to Seki City and had some knives made and demanded high quality (and paid for it). Others went to Seki City too, and now the Japanese cutlery you get in the US is often of superb quality.

[werd]

Hi Daniel,

We buy the drives from 'Daisy' in Europe but they may as you say source them in China - not sure?

james

Yes but you ultimately assume the risk with your warranty. So really the balls in your court if you wish to continue using possible substandard stuff. Not saying it is but you know what i mean.

[Daniel Datchev]

Hi James,
I am sure I read that Bryston is using Philips L1210 and it is made in China.
About DAISy it is a company connected with Philips
Formed in 1994 with the full co-operation and backing of Philips Laser Optics, DAISy was initially supplying Philips modules: the company took benefits from economies of scale and 'Research & Development' resources from a multi-national electronics corporation, but it was also able to supply a very high level of service and support to manufacturers thanks to the reactivity of a medium-size company.

Then, 2007 marked a turning point in the business strategy of DAISy: indeed, thanks to its long experience and technical know-how in the high-end market, DAISy decided to design and supply its own range of products, known as GyrFalcon, in order to fulfill all expectations of audio-video manufacturers could have.
And what looks similar to Philips L1210 is GyrFalcon 8.
Daniel

[vegasdave]

China? No way, man. I wouldn't buy Bryston anymore. Sorry, James.

[James Tanner]

James,

i've been often to Canada and the Canadians have a very good lifestyle/standard. maybe i misunderstand you here...but why should your sons have to expect a lifestyle that is "bad"?

al.

Hi Al,

Not that the Canadian lifstye is bad its just that because the country is changing from a manufacturing based economy to a service economy there are not the skilled well paying job opportunities there were when I was a young man.

james
 

[alexone]

ok. i understand. seems that we all have the same problems.


al.

[1ZIP]

But are the problems fixable?   If so, it's time we (North America) started fixing them!!

[Laundrew]

But are the problems fixable?   If so, it's time we (North America) started fixing them!!

These issues are borne of insatiable corporate greed. Corporations are sacrificing economic independence and regional stability for the personal gains of the very few.

Perhaps a day will come, in the not so distant future, when the self proclaimed elite will look down upon us from their ivory towers and triumphantly proclaim "let them eat cake."

History always has a way of repeating itself... 

[JeffO]

The problems with counterfeit parts are not limited to China.  It is rapidly becoming the number one problem in the Aerospace industry in North America. 
 
In the Space industry we now only buy electronic parts and raw materials directly from the foundries without the middlemen.  Even then we test everything, including aluminium, to ensure it is what we think it is. 

To maintain Bryston's current build quality would be difficult enough if they moved production to Markham, let alone moving it across the world to China. 
 

[john1970]

I continually tell my friends that taking the "means of production" off shore may in the short term lower prices and allow you to purchase 'goods' cheaper. But, this race to the bottom only results in less quality jobs, lower wages and eventually no job or some service job that pays minimum wage. What good is a great price if you have no way of paying any amount because your broke!

james

James,

I have been telling my friends the same things for many years.  It is why I always try to buy goods made in North America.  I wish more US citizens understood that basic concept.   Whenever an economy transforms from a manufacturing economy to a service economy, the overall standard of living suffers.  The 2008-2009 recession is just the beginning.  In the US I think we will see 10% unemployment for the next couple of years.

Best,

John

[Laundrew]

The problems with counterfeit parts are not limited to China.  It is rapidly becoming the number one problem in the Aerospace industry in North America. 
 
In the Space industry we now only buy electronic parts and raw materials directly from the foundries without the middlemen.  Even then we test everything, including aluminium, to ensure it is what we think it is. 

To maintain Bryston's current build quality would be difficult enough if they moved production to Markham, let alone moving it across the world to China.

A storey ensues….

I attended an avionics course at a helicopter manufacturer in the United States many years ago. The issue of counterfeit parts came up during one lecture. A customer was experiencing very high vibrations with the main rotor of his aircraft, one for which he could not correct by balancing. The company sent a technical representative to provide technical support to correct this problem.

The technical representative was also unsuccessful to correct the head vibrations that the aircraft was experiencing. He contacted his head office and requested a history of this rather large part in question. Upon investigation, the part turned out to be a training aid which was unsuitable for flight and was suppose to be on the factory school's floor.

The investigation revealed that an employee had stolen the part, painted it and sold it on the aircraft parts black market complete with forged airworthiness certificates.   

[1ZIP]

These issues are borne of insatiable corporate greed. Corporations are sacrificing economic independence and regional stability for the personal gains of the very few.

Perhaps a day will come, in the not so distant future, when the self proclaimed elite will look down upon us from their ivory towers and triumphantly proclaim "let them eat cake."

History always has a way of repeating itself...

I believe that is going on right now in the U.S.!

[Waker]

But we as consumers are the ones who want low prices, so we're the ones that encourage cutting corners. If you want cheap, you're going to get cheap.

Please don't turn this around on us consumers, as if we are to blame.  It is obvious over the past two years that there are no ethical standards in China, where they see no problem in shipping wallboard used in homes that emit toxic fumes, toys laden with heavy metals, infant formula extended with inorganic compounds, and any name-brand product line that can be copied, bootlegged, pirated and sold as "authentic".  Not to mention a nearly complete lack of labor laws, environmental regulations and, as mentioned, consumer protection laws.  Combine all this with the the world-wide business trend of seeking the cheapest labor on the globe, and what you get is what we have on our hands now.  And cheap prices?  That is a laugh.  Try to find a good pair of shoes for less than $60, or a shirt or pair of pants for less than $40.  Try to leave Target without having spent $100 on a few household items, all made in China!  You sound as if Nike and Columbia are actually trying to pass on the savings, when they are really fleecing us all.