[jackman]

He was refering to Mark Levinson the man not the company.
This is nothing new.  Glad they were busted.  Why should it be illegal?  If I want to try and sell my oppo in a new box for $5k whats the beef?  Caveat Emptor

Yep, you beat me to it. I had a heated exchange over email with THE Mark Levinson about a similar topic a couple years ago.  He tried to say his stuff was modded and different than the very inexpensive Chinese gear his expensive products used as a "base". He even had really fancy B&M stores in some posh sites.  I haven't heard from these guys in a while so I guess people got wise to it.

The internet is an amazing tool for consumers.  Twenty years ago, it would have been very difficult to sniff out a company doing what Lexicon tried to do with this CDP.  If you look on Audiogon, there are lots of Lexicon players selling very inexpensively.  They also seem to sell very quickly, albiet at a fraction of their original price.  I wonder if any of those players are rebadged Oppo units.  Anyone remember the Cadillac Cimerron?  How about the Lincoln "Versaille" (dressed up Granada)?  I hear Aston Martin is coming out with a dolled up Toyota for big bucks.  At least it has nicer interior and fancy paint.   

[bummrush]

 Well they wont be selling quite as briskly now as before

[srb]

Did I miss something? Are the Oppo player and Lexicon owned by the same company? It's one thing for GM to dress up one of its Chevys and call it a Cadillac, it'd be another thing to take a Ford and pull the same thing.

Although independently owned, sometimes companies will establish a "partnership" to facilitate rebadging models, as was the case in the past with Honda and Isuzu.
 
Isuzu built several models for Honda:
 - Isuzu Rodeo > Honda Passport
 - Isuzu Trooper > Acura SLX
 
and Honda built several models for Isuzu:
 - Honda Civic > Isuzu Gemini (Japan)
 - Honday Odyssey > Isuzu Oasis
 
But now that the Oppo BDP-83SE ($899) outperforms the Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray player ($3500), will Lexicon now come out with the BD-30SE ($5000?) ?   

Steve
 

[jackman]

Did I miss something? Are the Oppo player and Lexicon owned by the same company? It's one thing for GM to dress up one of its Chevys and call it a Cadillac, it'd be another thing to take a Ford and pull the same thing.

See my example, this is more common than you might think.  Astin Martin selling a dressed up Toyota, there was a Pontiac (Matrix) that was made by Toyota,Isuzu made the Honda Passport, Chrysler making the VW mini-van, etc.  There are lots of examples of this but none as blatantly obvious and insulting as the Lex/Oppo. 

[oneinthepipe]

He was refering to Mark Levinson the man not the company.
This is nothing new.  Glad they were busted.  Why should it be illegal?  If I want to try and sell my oppo in a new box for $5k whats the beef?  Caveat Emptor

Lexicon's marketing material states, "Lexicon manufactures high-performance audio/video components, including the flagship MC-12 surround controller, and from the company’s inception in 1971 to the present day, Lexicon has been recognized as a leader in digital audio processing." 

The re-badging of the Oppo and selling the BD player as their own for 10X the price is a gross mis-representation, IMO, and therefore false advertising and thus illegal.

I think a class action suit might be successful.   If anyone here owns a Lexicon BD-30 and wants to represent the class, let me know.

[zybar]

Lexicon's marketing material states, "Lexicon manufactures high-performance audio/video components, including the flagship MC-12 surround controller, and from the company’s inception in 1971 to the present day, Lexicon has been recognized as a leader in digital audio processing." 

The re-badging of the Oppo and selling the BD player as their own for 10X the price is a gross mis-representation, IMO, and therefore false advertising and thus illegal.

I think a class action suit might be successful.   If anyone here owns a Lexicon BD-30 and wants to represent the class, let me know.

I think saying it is illegal is a huge stretch and not the right path to go down. 

Lexicon is certainly entitled to do what they did and we are certainly entitled to pass accurate information around so people can decide what they want to do.  The biggest power you have is to vote with your wallet.

A frivolous lawsuit is not the answer.

George

[audio-heaven]

.

[boycephoto]

No matter what you are buying you need to remember "buyer beware".  Obviously some things are not what they appear.  This type of rebranding (deciption) happens all the time. 

Dave 

[srb]

No matter what you are buying you need to remember "buyer beware".  Obviously some things are not what they appear.  This type of rebranding (deciption) happens all the time. 

This has got to be the first time a nearly intact chassis was stuffed inside another chassis.  Except maybe for DIYers who have stuffed a chassis into a Cocobolo box.
 

I'm confused is this player a Oppicon or a Lexipo

I think I'm just going to refer to it from now on as the "Oxicon Leppo".


Steve 

[zybar]

I'm aware that independent car manufacturers agree to rebadge stuff and share platforms all the time. My question was did Oppo and Lexicon make a similar arrangement, or is it false advertising.

So clearly Oppo knows they're doing it and has okayed it, then. Otherwise it would seem plainly illegal and not a frivolous thing at all to pursue.

I am pretty darn confident that Lexicon is partnering with Oppo and not buying their product and using it illegally without their permission.  In fact, I believe this is acknowledged in the Audioholics review.

If Oppo was buying another company's product and reselling/rebranding it without an agreement in place, false advertising would be the least of Lexicon's worries.

George

[sts9fan]

I think a class action suit might be successful.   If anyone here owns a Lexicon BD-30 and wants to represent the class, let me know.

If you mean successful in making the lawyer some money and not even denting Harmen then I agree.  Otherwise it is pointless. 

[oneinthepipe]

I think saying it is illegal is a huge stretch and not the right path to go down. 

Lexicon is certainly entitled to do what they did and we are certainly entitled to pass accurate information around so people can decide what they want to do.  The biggest power you have is to vote with your wallet.

A frivolous lawsuit is not the answer.

George

Consumers cannot be protected and cannot vote with their wallets when deceptive advertising is permitted.  Tort law is merely the privatization of regulation.  Enforcement of consumer protection laws, regardless whether a government agency or an individual or class of individuals monitors a manufacturer's purported deceptive practices, is not frivolous, IMO.  Whether or not the government or an individual or class of individuals would prevail is a separate issue.

I don't think my opinion that Lexicon's actions should be illegal is a huge stretch, but consumer law is not my specialty.  Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if Lexicon's actions are illegal.  One definition of deceptive trade practices is practices that will mislead a consumer who is acting reasonably under the circumstances, to that consumer's detriment.

[oneinthepipe]

I am pretty darn confident that Lexicon is partnering with Oppo and not buying their product and using it illegally without their permission.  ...

George

That is merely one aspect of the law.  I don't think that anyone has accused Lexicon of stealing Oppo's intellectual property.

[Bemopti123]

I do not know about you guys but this sort of things has been happening with all sort of products, be it alcohol used in vodka, as well as a plethora of products we purchased unknowingly by millions of people everyday.

In economies of scale with a few players making incredible volumes, as far as I am aware of, ANYTHING, can be included in this outrageous behavior that is being questioned here. 

The most important aspect of it is to be aware and not fall into the trap of branding. 

Just the mention of lawsuit is ridiculous.  If we follow the same train of thought, should I sue a food manufacturer of X brand of famous hotdogs if I find out that that dog was made in the same meatpacking factory in Oklahoma and I paid 2X as much for it? 

Lexicon, Oppo ain't the same as hotdogs, but they engaged in the same behavior. 

[zybar]

I didn't read every word of the article but I didn't see anything acknowledging a partnership. Maybe they considered it too obvious to mention, or maybe as I said I just missed it.

They're still lying their asses off about it, though.

And this "caveat emptor" clucking is some glib shite if you ask me, in cases of deliberate fraud (if not legal fraud, it's still a fraud) like this one. Buyers have a responsibility to research their products as best they can (which, absent luckily noticing the Audioholics review, would have required sneakily opening the thing up in the store) but manufacturers have a responsibility not to blatantly misrepresent their products, and then continue lying when the game is up. I think customers - especially ones who purchased before the news broke - should get their money back, instead of being blamed for not conducting an improbable kind of "due diligence." Any self-respecting retailer ought to do that anyway.

Brian,

The fact that Audioholics sent Lexicon their findings and they didn't have any issues with them stating the fact that it is indeed an Oppo inside says to me that there is a legal partnership between Lexicon and Oppo (you can read about this in the "Closing Thoughts" section).

As for what Lexicon has done, in no way do I endorse what they did or feel it is right.  However, opinion and law are not the same.  My comments were around a possible lawsuit against Lexicon and whether they broke any laws.  I still don't believe they did anything illegal.

George

[Bear]

There is nothing illegal with re-branding a product and selling it under the new label so long is there is an agreement between the two companies....it happens with many a product.  This may be one of the laziest and most blazen attempts I have seen.  They have changed the aesthetic as well, perhaps that is worth $3000 to someone.....not me.

[Bemopti123]

All hot dogs are required to be sold with a list of ingredients and nutrition information, not to mention where and by whom they were made. I think the same should have applied to the Lexicon: "contains 1 Oppo Bluray player."

Ingredients as basic generic products in foods stuffs.  If electronics manuf. were to follow the same rules, it would not include a fully "made" components such as the "Oppo BluRay player."  It should say something like "Caps, transistors etc..." 

Why is there such outrage against this rebranding practice?  Is it because it is Lexicon messing with Oppo, a much loved manufacturer? 

I would simply avoid all Lexicon goods, no lashing against such a blaring rebranding will change what large corporations do ALL the time.

[Bemopti123]

Anyway I thought false advertising was illegal, but I'm no lawyer.

Many entities and groups advertise one thing and do something else in the back, when people aren't looking.  There needs to be outrage against something that truly affects society negatively. 

If some audioFOOL decides to follow his fav brand and has dough to burn, he truly deserves to be burned because did not do his homework and allowed himself to be taken in. 

Who buys $3000 DVD players these days?  It is not wise to invest that much $$$$ on a physical format player anyway. 

[srb]

Why is there such outrage against this rebranding practice?  Is it because it is Lexicon messing with Oppo, a much loved manufacturer? 

I think the main outrage of the Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray player is the multiplier.  No one on this forum had previously seen a rebadged component priced at 700% of the original.
 
Steve

[smargo]

I think the main outrage is the multiplier.  No one on this forum had previously seen a rebadged component priced at 700% of the original.
 
Steve

or no one was aware - big difference don't ya think