[Bear]

Chevrolet has sold vehicles under their brand, made by suzuki, daewoo, isuzu, the early geo prizm and chevrolet prizm were toyota corolla's.  Ford has done the same, they never touted their mazda b3000 pickup and for ranger as being the same....and their was a significant difference in price.  Dogde and Mitsubishi have done the same.  Acura used to sell an suv was the same as isuzus for a very hefty premium.  Im glad that this incident brought the practice to light for some...as their outgarge clearly reveals that many were not aware of this practice.  Due diligance is needed to "protect"  your interests....don't leave it for government agencies and courts....they do not always act in your best interest ......keep america free....free market that is.  If you are able to contribute to the economies of the world by shelling out a large premium, thank you for your support.   Seriously though....leave the courts for more serious matters as opposed to protecting people from themselves.   Who is to decide what is too much mark-up?  What is considered a "modification".   Judge for yourself, not for others.

They baely botherd to "modify: the model #.....

[srb]

"Unparalleled"? There is your misleading term right there.

Well then Oppo now has a problem too, as their website also says "Unparalleled Video Quality"

I guess they should both change it to "Paralleled Video Quality".
 
Steve

[trebejo]

I wonder if the Lexicon dealers knew or were told that they were selling an Oppo with a different skin for 3500.00.

Now there is a good seed in that sentence. If I was such a dealer, I would join the lawsuit myself, and I would let all my customers know about it. I would not like it one little bit if my business was affected by such fraud.

[oneinthepipe]

Due diligance is needed to "protect"  your interests....don't leave it for government agencies and courts....they do not always act in your best interest ......keep america free.... 

Bear:

I agree with you, except that corporations are "persons" under the law, and corporations' officers and directors have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders (profit-based).  While individuals have an obligation to be good citizens or otherwise be penalized, corporations do not have this obligation.  Therefore, corporations must be regulated.  As a person that believes in individualism, I encourage private regulation, which is enforced by both the consumers' spending power and legal action.

[Don_S]

I think some of the arguments about re-branding/re-badging of other products (e.g. automobiles) are clearly not relevant.  Most of the time the re-branding was common knowledge.  While the re-seller might not have advertised the fact, they did not try to hide it either. Automobile magazines and newspaper reviews usually stated who actually built the vehicles or what models they were based upon. There were other obvious clues with no intent to hide.  For example, the engine in my Father's Chrysler was clearly marked Mitsubishi.

I think the relevant point to be made is how much deception was intended.

[hmen]

I guess now Oppo can say their unit uses the same components as a $3000 offering from a "competitor".
I don't think this is similar to the kind of rebranding you see in the auto industry. I think the automotive equivilent of this would be an unmodified Chevy with a fancy front bumper for $100,000.   

[Bear]

I used to drive a Prizm. Geo dealers couldn't wait to tell you their car was really a Toyota, and couldn't stop reminding you about it.

Honestly, the very first thing everyone knows about a new car brand is who's building it. When Ford buys Jaguar, everyone knows that Ford parts are going to show up in Jags.

That is not the first thing "everyone" knows...that is a slippery slope.  It is not inheritly known or implied...but, we as intelligent people, figure this out.   I don't recall Toyota telling "everyone" that geo and chevy sold the same thing for less.  buyer beware.

[oneinthepipe]

If I was such a dealer, I would join the lawsuit myself....

The dealers probably have a different cause of action.

[Bear]

Has Lexicon denied anything?  Also,  your "points" only serve to affirm my position.  I did not say I agreed with Lexicon's practice, nor did I say that anyone was "dumb" for buying a $3000 dvd player.  Do you think there are people who bought prizm's who would have been upset to find out it was infact built by toyota?  Would aome people who bought corollas be enraged that they could by the same vehicle for less?   Even gm workers bought prizms not knowing.....I know this firsthand.  I'm just making the point, that citizens should not go crying to the courts and congressmen over every trivial event.  instead.....excersise caution.  there are many here who have paid big money for upgrades that may or may not be percievable to the human species.  Lexicon did alter the aesthetic....that is a "customization/modification"  would the people hear like the gov't/courts to intervine in their quest for pleasure because others think that it is not worthwile to pay to upgrade their caps?  careful what you wish for.  im done.
this has occupied my time to my delight.

thanks for the discussion.

[trebejo]

Hey, let's go sell some bad heroin at the park. We will call it "Caveat Emptor" and since people there don't study latin, they won't know what it means. The good thing is that then we can defend our actions. After all, we TOLD them "Caveat Emptor" and they STILL gave us their money of their own free market will! We can just tell the fuzz to buzz off, because the courts must not be involved in what we are doing! Yippee!

[Bear]

thats not an intelligent argument.....heroin is an illegal substance.  also, there is no harm or negligence in lexicons case....unless you count overcharging.

[Bear]

okay, you are not being objective.  I hope you get your money back from Lexicon.

However, you have changed my mind....some people clearly need protectionism.

I only entered into this to occupy my time.

[Bemopti123]

While we all need to show courage or unleash some emotion, which is healthy btw, I just do not see as energy efficient to question Lexicon's damage, unless someone here bought the Lexicon in question and feels cheated. 

I do not know guys, but this thread is meandering into possible censorship because we keep being "elastic" with what Lexicon and Oppo did with some DVD player. 

BTW, I think a Toyota re badged something else and selling 10X the price does not equate having a Toyota with a 100K bumper.  To do what Lexicon/Harman did with the Oppo, you need have a Toyota put in a thicker, heavier metal chassis. 

In any case, we cannot protect the human race from their own lack of common sense or their fist full of $$$$. 

IF there was going to be a law suit in this case, there needs to be solid damages steaming from this rebadging practice. 

[trebejo]

thats not an intelligent argument.....heroin is an illegal substance.  also, there is no harm or negligence in lexicons case....unless you count overcharging.

We will have the intelligence argument some other day. There is a qualification round you need to go through and we do not have a spot open for you at this time.

So back to the topic at hand, who said I was arguing? That was a serious proposal for you, and I am fully expecting you to go all in. Don't worry about legalities, we are free marketers!

Jeez, man, why do you have to talk about legalities, morality, anything? All that matters is the free market and caveat emptor is all you should ever use!

[Bear]

you never gave me a rational argument....there is no debating against the irrational...you win.  As I said, I sincerely hope you are able to recover some of the money for your Lexicon.

Also, I can appreciate your pic, as I am defending the rights for wich this country was founded and flourished on.  It is not a perfect world with all daisies and roses, poison ivy and skunk weed makes life an adventure for wich we can appreciate the daises and roses.   Hey, maybe we should have government abolish poisen ivy???  gotta go i'm going to run crying to my congressman because i got poisen ivy in the woods.....and im going to sue someone.

[oneinthepipe]

I think that Lexicon's actions are harmful to their customers, their shareholders and distributors, potentially, and to our society.  Lexicon's actions erode trust in business.  Lexicon claims to be a leader in audio technology.  Based on the BD-30, I doubt the truth of that statement.  Untruthfulness in advertising injures everyone.

[Bemopti123]

Lexicon's actions erode trust in business.  Lexicon claims to be a leader in audio technology.  Based on the BD-30, I doubt the truth of that statement.  Untruthfulness in advertising injures everyone.

"Business" as they stand today in our nation have not much trust left, especially from me.  This is the inner cynic in me typing. 

Truthfulness or lack off, depends of the angle in which we decide to appreciate the argument or the subject.

[Bemopti123]

We should all watch this...http://www.thematrix101.com/matrix/

There must be a BD edition, I will load it on my Lexicon BD-30

[Bear]

"Jeez, man, why do you have to talk about legalities, morality, anything? All that matters is the free market and caveat emptor is all you should ever use!"


There are some that are arguing fora lawsuit or some kind of government intervention.  caveat emptor applies, as does caveat venditor.  I don't think it is right what lexicon has done....and they are likely going to get what they deserve.  All is well, the system has worked, as  for the people who got taken....some will never know and will probably take great pride in their equipment showing it off to their buddies, for others it is an invaulable lesson to which they will likely carry forward and recoupe the $3000 in spades through a more thourough buying process, as opposed to walking in a showroom and being sold the most expensive box in the place. 

[Bear]

We should all watch this...http://www.thematrix101.com/matrix/

There must be a BD edition, I will load it on my Lexicon BD-30

 Great, I will bring my Oppo so we can A/B