Super V Sound

Bear · « **Reply #40 on:** 2 Dec 2009, 09:58 pm »

back on topic...how much assembly time would the less than average solder hack need to complete a single crossover(in your best estimation)? I understand that this will vary greatly with skill leveland attention to detail.

maybe if i would stop asking remedial questions Danny could assemble thoughs crossovers he mentioned earlier

thanks

shane

Danny Richie · « **Reply #41 on:** 2 Dec 2009, 10:13 pm »

Ray, Welcome to our circle and to AC.

These really don't have a character or certain attributes that are like other speakers. I would compare them more to the sound of whatever it is that they are reproducing more so than to other speakers.

Think of these speakers as having the dynamics of high sensitivity horns without the drawbacks. There is no hooky, harsh, or ringing that goes along with most horns.

They are transparent sounding like many electrostats but don't have their drawbacks either. They certainly do not have a one person size sweet spot.

They make drums sound like real drums in the room. The same goes for vocals. Everything that they play has a very real sound to it.

Quote

back on topic...how much assembly time would the less than average solder hack need to complete a single crossover(in your best estimation)?

Two to three hours maybe....

Here is a pic of the crossover. I have since tweaked it a little and it lost one of those inductors. So it has even less parts than what is pictured.

It is not hard to assemble and if there are any doubts then it can be built for you.

Bear · « **Reply #42 on:** 2 Dec 2009, 10:28 pm »

first off, Danny...thanks for the extremely quick responses. on a side note, am I lucky enough to have found the "perfect" speaker(to be designed to date) in what may be my first foray into audiophileville? and at a very reasonable(or absurdly low dependent upon your perspective in this sport) price?

unmatched neutrality, response, range, transparency, imaging, staging, musicality/ness(not sure of the proper term their

.

I won't even be able to appreciate such a speaker as I have not spent the countless hours and dollars in my quest. have I won the audiophile lottery? celebration time...

2bigears · « **Reply #43 on:** 2 Dec 2009, 11:18 pm »

Danny,i need a set in Canada,i am really having fun and liking a set of Maggie 3.6's,but for the price of these,i shold have ordered long ago.a full kit will be available when ???? end of the month ???? thks Pat

Voiceray · « **Reply #44 on:** 2 Dec 2009, 11:57 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 2 Dec 2009, 10:13 pm

Ray, Welcome to our circle and to AC.

These really don't have a character or certain attributes that are like other speakers. I would compare them more to the sound of whatever it is that they are reproducing more so than to other speakers.

Think of these speakers as having the dynamics of high sensitivity horns without the drawbacks. There is no hooky, harsh, or ringing that goes along with most horns.

They are transparent sounding like many electrostats but don't have their drawbacks either. They certainly do not have a one person size sweet spot.

They make drums sound like real drums in the room. The same goes for vocals. Everything that they play has a very real sound to it.

Quote
back on topic...how much assembly time would the less than average solder hack need to complete a single crossover(in your best estimation)?

Two to three hours maybe....

Here is a pic of the crossover. I have since tweaked it a little and it lost one of those inductors. So it has even less parts than what is pictured.

It is not hard to assemble and if there are any doubts then it can be built for you.

This is exciting. Looks like this speaker has everything I was looking for. I talk to Bryan about lead runs and he stated between 20' to 30' at the max for the woofs. What is the lead run for the Dodds with 12 gauge ? I would think that high impedance match requirements for the tubes might not be a problem, but it's been a long time since I work on tube equipment. A lot tubes are from China or Russia and are not cheap. About $80.00 a tube in some cases, which many change once a year. I see many set-ups with the amps right near the speakers. Maybe this is a have too situation.

Ray

Danny Richie · « **Reply #45 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 12:56 am »

Hey 2bigears, I have already shipped a couple of pairs of V-1's to Canada. aa

The guy that made these (see pics) http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73341.0 cut out two pairs when he made these and he is in Canada. He might make you a good deal on a pair.

I sold out of the SW-12-16FR woofers because so many were ordered at once. I was suppose to have my next shipment of 200 of them here already, but looks like the end of the month or first of the year now. I wish they were here sooner. There is already a pretty good waiting list of people wanting these when they are again ready to ship.

Ray, I have my amp setting in the middle of the floor on an amp stand right between the two speakers. So distance is no issue. If it were 20 feet away then my cables would cost twice as much as that amp. I'd recommend keeping the main amp, and the power amps for the subs, as close as possible to the speakers.

sfdoddsy · « **Reply #46 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 01:06 am »

Quote from: sl_1800 on 27 Nov 2009, 09:44 pm

"Steve, are you using a Pioneer HT-receiver for the woofers on your Orions?"

Yes I am using the Pioneer for all channels of the Orion, I have the Orions sub sonic filter turned on and I still have problems with the Pioneer shutting down on heavy bass notes.

I don't think it is an efficiency problem per se. I assume you have the woofers wired in parallel to be able to run the speakers with six channels? If so the impedance drops to around 2 ohms in the upper bass and the Pioneer is probably having trouble with that. You may be better off rewiring them in series. It will need more power, but shouldn't shut down.

And while we are talking about the amplification requirements for the Super V versus the Orions, it shouldn't be forgotten that the Super V also requires significant amplification. There are the two mono amps for the bass, plus the head unit amp.

lowtech · « **Reply #47 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 01:08 am »

Quote from: Danny on 2 Dec 2009, 07:43 pm

...will make them scream.

Speaking of which, do you have plans to offer a line-level notch filter to shape the response into what most would find acceptable for typical hi-fi standards (+/- 3db or so)? Also, you said earlier that you'd publish some off-axis plots. Are those available somewhere?

TRADERXFAN · « **Reply #48 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 01:32 am »

Quote from: lowtech on 3 Dec 2009, 01:08 am

Quote from: Danny on 2 Dec 2009, 07:43 pm

...will make them scream.

Speaking of which, do you have plans to offer a line-level notch filter to shape the response into what most would find acceptable for typical hi-fi standards (+/- 3db or so)?

I don't see any reason why he should bother. From all reports seems like the speaker works very well, as designed.

I would like to see those off axis plots though!

lowtech · « **Reply #49 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 01:40 am »

Quote from: TRADERXFAN on 3 Dec 2009, 01:32 am

I don't see any reason why he should bother. From all reports seems like the speaker works very well, as designed.

I think we may have a slightly different definition of well-designed and I don't put too much stock in subjective (and likely biased) reports. A 10db variation over one octave is not good by any standard that I'm aware of. It's also likely that the off-axis curves are such that a notch filter won't fix the problem (that's why I asked to see them).

Danny Richie · « **Reply #50 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 01:50 am »

Quote

Speaking of which, do you have plans to offer a line-level notch filter to shape the response into what most would find acceptable for typical hi-fi standards (+/- 3db or so)?

Better take a closer look. It is +/- about 1.5db until it reaches a small peak at 3.5kHz. Only in the upper ranges is the response a little choppy. I can live with that. The bottom end, midrange, and top end through all the fundamentals are really smooth.

Quote

A 10db variation over one octave is not good by any standard that I'm aware of.

There is no 10db variation.

Quote

It's also likely that the off-axis curves are such that a notch filter won't fix the problem (that's why I asked to see them).

A notch filter is used to correct a peak. Do you see one that needs correction?

Besides, after the latest revision, it is now +/-2.5db from end to end.

I'll try to take some new measurements of this pair that I have hear now, including off axis measurements, and post them tomorrow.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #51 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 02:02 am »

Quote

And while we are talking about the amplification requirements for the Super V versus the Orions, it shouldn't be forgotten that the Super V also requires significant amplification. There are the two mono amps for the bass, plus the head unit amp.

Yeah, but a pair of these servo controlled plate amps come with the kit: http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=142

All you need is an amp for the top end, and because of the high sensitivity and easy 8 ohm load, you can use a great sounding, low wattage (and low cost), tube amp.

lowtech · « **Reply #52 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 02:10 am »

Quote from: Danny on 3 Dec 2009, 01:50 am

There is no 10db variation.

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong curve?

Quote from: Danny on 3 Dec 2009, 01:50 am

A notch filter is used to correct a peak. Do you see one that needs correction?

No, I see two. One high-Q resonance seems to be centered at around 8KHz and another is around 16KHz. There is also a high-Q dip centered at around 6.2KHz but I don't think EQ is going to fix that. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72093.msg689698#msg689698

Quote from: Danny on 3 Dec 2009, 01:50 am

I'll try to take some new measurements of this pair that I have hear now, including off axis measurements, and post them tomorrow.

Thanks.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #53 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 03:16 am »

Those little narrow band wiggles are only in the top octaves and are NOT present in the off axis response.

And from line to line is only 5db.

HT cOz · « **Reply #54 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 03:06 pm »

Quote from: lowtech on 3 Dec 2009, 01:40 am

I think we may have a slightly different definition of well-designed and I don't put too much stock in subjective (and likely biased) reports.

It's funny how different people approach this hobby. I feel that measurements and the like are an item to check off before moving onto the subjective reviews.

Now onto the harder to quantify part of choosing a speaker. How many speaker companies have the designer actively talking to customers online?

Of this group how many have been basically universally praised for their work in review after review?

Now you have a small group to work from, so what does Danny bring:

Great Value
Innovative Designs
Trustworthy
Honesty
Great Industry Connections
And many others

So yeah I'm sold. Just can't wait to get my new house built and my AV/3 Neos up and running... And will continue to dream about these Kick Butt Vs...

corndog71 · « **Reply #55 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 04:00 pm »

Quote from: HT cOz on 3 Dec 2009, 03:06 pm

So yeah I'm sold. And will continue to dream about these Kick Butt Vs...

Me too! Danny is The Man.

TRADERXFAN · « **Reply #56 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 04:41 pm »

Well measurements do cut through some of the BS and bias. However a frequency plot is no where near enough to go by to make a decision. I think people get hung up on the idea of flat from 20 to 20k too much. Our ability to hear sounds above 8k is severely compromised to non-existent. A wobble in that area is not likely to be that detrimental to our perception of music. And this concern should be dispelled now, since so many people who have heard them are not noticing a problem.

I have heard a few of Danny's designs now. I have no doubt about his ability to design exceptional speakers.

-Tony

lowtech · « **Reply #57 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 06:36 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 3 Dec 2009, 03:16 am

Those little narrow band wiggles are only in the top octaves and are NOT present in the off axis response.

Okay. So the artifacts that I'm referring to are caused by the design of your baffle and cannot be corrected via notch filters. The only way to address this issue is with a better baffle geometry. It would be interesting to know how you arrived at your final design and if you tried any variations before finalizing it.

Quote from: Danny on 3 Dec 2009, 03:16 am

And from line to line is only 5db.

Okay. This normalized curve appears to only have an 7db (not 10db) variation over the same one octave.

Please do post those off-axis measurements today iof you have the chance. Also, is there any chance you can post them raw w/o 1/3 octave smoothing?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #58 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 06:56 pm »

Quote

Okay. So the artifacts that I'm referring to are caused by the design of your baffle and cannot be corrected via notch filters.

No, they are not caused by the baffle.

You are at a real disadvantage. You are guessing at what's going on. I have been there and done that.

Quote

Okay. This normalized curve appears to only have an 7db (not 10db) variation over the same one octave.

The latest revision has it within +/-2.5db and I think I can live with that considering the behavior most drivers of this type tend to have.

I just had more pressing orders to tend to just come up. It may be another day or so be fore I set up the measuring system again and move one of these big heavy monsters in place.

Voiceray · « **Reply #59 on:** 3 Dec 2009, 07:19 pm »

Danny

What is the longest lead run to the Super V for the Dodd amp with 12 gauge ?

Ray