[Johnny]

Hi Hugh,
Well I figured white was the new red and went ahead with a test run. But as always, I'm grateful for confirmation. My Vsonics logged about 5 hours this afternoon, apparently in correct phase and definitely churning out more tuneful bass and mid to upper range timbre than the diminutive Ruarks they so recently replaced. JJ Cale (bass) is rock'n my listening room, and some spanish guitar that happened to come up on the FM was holographic in the timbre department...

What do I need for full bloom- 20 hours?

Attached, some photos. WAF is in evidence 

The paint is still drying on the plinths, yet to be installed. As I anticipated, I'm happy with ~ 2" increase in tweeter hight from my listening position, not that I am above average hight.

Cheers,
John



Cheers,
John

Hi John,

Yes, if the other terminal is BLACK or unmarked, as I think it might be.

No, if the other terminal is RED, but I don't think you have that series!

Nearly there!!


Cheers,

Hugh

[AKSA]

Hi John,

Beautiful work, really like the fit, finish - and the port looks better than the original, I think......

Thank you for showing us this beautiful speaker, and I'm so glad you like the sound.  The bass is more placed in the room, than played - and it's an indefinable quality of all TLs, they are just so musical.

The resolution of these two drivers is something extraordinary, hats off to Peerless for getting the detail so precise.  The crossover, Laurie's design, is absolutely a work of art.  The crossover took more than twelve months to get exactly right, and it's a masterpiece.

Thanks for sharing, John, 20 hours is about right!

Is the standing lizard sticking it's tongue out at us?

Hugh

[andyr]

Hi Hugh,
Well I figured white was the new red and went ahead with a test run. But as always, I'm grateful for confirmation. My Vsonics logged about 5 hours this afternoon, apparently in correct phase and definitely churning out more tuneful bass and mid to upper range timbre than the diminutive Ruarks they so recently replaced. JJ Cale (bass) is rock'n my listening room, and some spanish guitar that happened to come up on the FM was holographic in the timbre department...

What do I need for full bloom- 20 hours?

Attached, some photos. WAF is in evidence 

The paint is still drying on the plinths, yet to be installed. As I anticipated, I'm happy with ~ 2" increase in tweeter hight from my listening position, not that I am above average hight.

Cheers,
John

Mmmm, John,

I think the position of your VSonics leaves something to be desired.  Maybe you have to buy your wife an expensive diamond ring ... or beat her over the head!!   

(I recommend diamonds ... and for her latest b'day, I have bought wifey some custom-made gold jewellery.  Hence I don't get much hassle in the WAF department!  )

Comparing your location with Hugh's "Master Set" setup ... you could do with the speakers being more out.  Can I suggest you research the posts about the Master Set?

Alternatively, if your room is fairly symmetrical (which Hugh's is not), try placing:
* the centre of the woofer exactly 1/5th the length from the front wall
* exactly 1/5th in from the side walls, and
* point the VSonics directly at your ears.

And report back! 

Regards,

Andy

[Johnny]

Ah Andy, You've anticipated my next post! I was hoping to get some advice on placement without going through the whole masterset thing, which I have read 

At the moment the speakers are in a resting position while they break in, and the wife, cat and kids get used to their presence. Soon, they will mysteriously begin to creep out into the room in increments of 2.5 inches over successive nights. Maybe no one will notice 

The room is very symmetrical- a nearly perfect golden ratio shoe box. Interesting, 1/5 from the side walls? That's really into the corners, which should indeed lift the bass. Interestingly, what you suggest would put the speakers and my listening position in an equilateral triangle, another rule of thumb 
And you are also suggesting the speakers should toe in? Is that the general consensus for the Vs?

I will definitely report back!

Cheers,
John

[Johnny]

Ron,

I will incorporate all the points you make in the latest instructions.

Hugh

Hugh,
I have a layout diagram for the interior damping material (felt/carpeting) and templates for the driver layout. The latter make quick work for setting up the front panels for machining the driver rebates (rabbets) and cutouts. Especially nice if you blow it the first time

You're welcome to these as well, if you think they might help clarify the instructions.

Would very much like to see revised editions as they become available.

Cheers,
John

[AKSA]

John,

I'm particularly grateful to you for your perseverance and willingness to make this material available to me, yes, please!!

And I will share the revised notes with great pleasure, indeed, I suspect I will defer on writing style as well.......

Watch those speakers.  Walking speakers are curiously infective......

Cheers,

Hugh

[Sparks]

Ah Andy, You've anticipated my next post! I was hoping to get some advice on placement without going through the whole masterset thing, which I have read 

Cheers,
John

John,
You spent How Many Hours Building The Speakers and letting them run in?????????????????????????
And you don't have any time to set them up????????????????????????????????????
And you want some quick 5 minute method??????????????????????????????????
A day, a week, a month, a year, etc, after you do Master Set, even if you do a couple after tweaks, you won't remember the time you spent doing it. 
Set up is as important part of making a speaker work right as gluing the sides together on the cabinet.
Something to think about....

Steve

PS. I happen to be visiting my brother and I see that I have posted on his moniker.

[Johnny]

Defer?
To me? 
But your prose are so much better than mine 

Anyway, looking forward to it!
Cheers,
John

John,

I'm particularly grateful to you for your perseverance and willingness to make this material available to me, yes, please!!

And I will share the revised notes with great pleasure, indeed, I suspect I will defer on writing style as well.......

Watch those speakers.  Walking speakers are curiously infective......

Cheers,

Hugh

[Johnny]

Hi Ron,
You mentioned 1mm felt in the lower chamber. Did you use this in the rest of the enclosure, or did you mean 10mm? I ask because I used ~10mm thick wool Berber carpeting in mine, which I suspect might have a little bit more damping power than ordinary synthetic carpet, though perhaps similar to felt of the same thickness. While I'm thoroughly enjoying my new speakers, the bass does seem a bit reticent on some source material. I'm thinking about taking the lower stuffing out, then adding some back in stages...

Cheers,
John

Hugh, Laurie and all,
Here are the results of yesterday's tweaking:

1. Move stuffing to Laurie's suggested locations:
    Difficult to put your finger on, but it sounds like there's better integration between the drivers.

2. Removal of 80% of the felt lining in the lower chamber:
    4 of the 5 pieces of felt were removed, leaving the top piece in place so as not to disturb the crossover.
    The bass is back  - and better than before, as the drivers are now well run in.
 
3. Removal of sealing on the tweeter:
    Suffice it to say that I put the blu-tac back PDQ!

Thanks Hugh and Laurie for your patient help and guidance, I think I'm now listening to these speakers as they were intended to sound. aa

[AKSA]

John,

You could well be correct here.  It is possible to overdamp these speakers, and the use of carpet, as a generic, does not cover the range of absorbance and is a tad problematic.....  some indication that this might happen should be written into the instructions so that people are forewarned that removal of some carpet in the lower chamber may be needed.

Judicious removal from the lower chamber (near the vent) and bass heavy road testing would be a good idea.  You can expect these speakers to have very marked impact and slam in the bass.

Cheers,

Hugh

[Tliner]

Hi John,

By all means alter the amount of stuffing and placement of it in the front chamber. But make sure that there is a hole through the centre of the roll of stuffing about the size of your arm. What you will be doing now is tuning the VSonics to your listening room. This is a very subjective area and the configuration of the stuffing may not be the same for all. A good wool Berber is very absorbent. VSonics with a synthetic carpet don't seem to sound as clean and true to the source CD.

Now be carefull of the CD, vinyil etc you are using to tune the bass. Unfortunately a lot of CDs have been clipped at the top and bottom ends where as the better ones have the full dynamics of the music usually providing a full punchy bass.

To overcome the deficiency of bass on some source material a Transmissionline bass extender (Ben) has been designed to seamlessly extend the bass of the VSonics. If you want a pipe organ and electric bass guitar in your listening room this speaker will do that all very musically.

Cheers,

Laurie 

[RonR]

Hi John,

I have 10mm thick wool looped Berber carpet as the damping material in all but the lower chamber. There I have a 1mm felt covering on the underside of the baffle (the panel that the crossover is fixed to), otherwise the lower chamber is undamped. This gives the punchy bass, and it's slightly more articulate than no damping at all.

One thing I discovered is that it's much easier to stick self-adhesive felt than it is to remove it , but soaking in IPA softens the glue enough to get the felt off in one piece.

Cheers,

Ron.

[Johnny]

Thanks Hugh,
Oh, and I've been taking notes on the Vsonics sound 
Stay tuned  aa

and Laurie,
Ah! I actually rolled the lower front chamber stuffing in spiral fashion with no free passage down the center, so I will alter that asap.  Do you roll it on the long axis or the short axis, resulting in a taller or shorter cylinder? A shorter cylinder might be placed between the bottom of the woofer frame and the top of the exit port- is this desirable? Should it not go all the way to the bottom? Is this what you mean by placing it "half way down below the woofer"?

Sorry to be  obsessing about this, but it seems you have spent much time fine tuning and it would be great to have a standard reference point from which to start tweaking for the room and system. In the upper front chamber, I rolled the stuffing into a spiral cylinder bent into a horse shoe (upside down U) shape and pushed it up into the top so the sides of the U descend on either side of the chamber leaving an open space behind the tweeter. That sound about right? How 'bout you Ron?

You are absolutely right about source material. Having logged some run in time, I went immediately to cherished LP's from the 60's and 70's and finally realized their limitations. (This system upgrade has changed everything  ) I have since settled on a few choice contemporary recordings to work with whilst tweaking.

Ron,
Glad to hear you used wool Berber as well. It seems that our as builts should be quite comparable then 

Cheers,
John

[hybride]

Ron and Johnny, inspired by your work i have decide to build a pair of Vsonic's. I told Hugh that i promised myself not to build any speaker again in the future, but since i have the Lifeforce 100 amp -and i love it- i am really exciting what the Vsonic will bring as they will be the perfect couple. l live in the Netherlands and my technical English is not that well, but i learned a lot already from you pictures, thanks. I am not i a hurry and will do some shopping first to look after veneer MDF panels. i wonder if Plywood vs MDF has different characteristics? Plywood seems a more easy choice to work with for the outside baffles. I will report my progress in this thread.

[Tliner]

Hi Johnny,
I have placed the stuffing lengthwise (horse shoe shape) down the front camber in my VSonics with the ends facing the V. That is with the centre of the stuffing against the front baffle and the bottom of the stuffing about level with the vent, no further down. The driver has to have some free air space to breathe in a controlled manner.\

I presume that you have a fairly large listening room as you appear to be geetting the stuffing close to the position in my VSonics. My room is 12' H X 17' W X 24" long and is full of furniture. With a reasonable amount of furniture in the room the bass is more pronounced. I have had the VSonics at the local sailing club where we hold a jazz night a couple of times a year. The club room is 18'H X 46'W X 90' long. Last year a very good sax player played along with a backing cd of his band and he often expresses a desire to build the VSonics. I also had the transmissionline woofer (Ben) going as well. That added the realistic effect of a band going full bore inside the club.

Have fun tuning the VSonics and a rewarding New Year.

Hybride, I have experemented with ply wood and MDF over the years and now tend to use MDF in preference to ply. But sometimes I have glued a thin 3 or 4 mm ply to MDF for extra damping and it is also easier to attach than a thin veneer of wood.

Cheers,

Laurie.   

[hybride]

Thanks Laurie,
I'll decide to go for all MDF. It is not only cheaper, but also more easy building i think; i can use screws to all panels and afterwards i will cover the holes with good quality filler. The choice for the finish i choose later. Maybe thin plywood, but i feel more for a high brilliance paint. Now first wait until i receive the full build instructions from Hugh..

John, did you use 18mm MDF + 9?mm plywood for the front, top and side baffles?

[Johnny]

Happy New Year, Tliners!

Sorry for the delayed response. For the past five “vacation” days I’ve been in snowbound Vermont getting my mother settled in an assisted living situation and doing the sorting, trashing, moving and storage thing to clear out her flat by the end of the month. Mom’s very happy in her new place. Lets’s hope that’s it for a while. Now, back to work!

Hybride, I’m sure you will be pleased with the Vsonics. Absolutely worth the effort, cost effective and synergistic with the Aspen amplifiers. Having spent the day making final tuning adjustments and listenting sessions, I can say that these speakers are stunning, and like every Aspen upgrade I have made along the way, Transformative!

I also debated about plywood vs. MDF, and went with Baltic Birch ply based of previous experiences. Interior panels are MDF. While not potentially as effective as dissimilar laminate materials for the entire panels, I figure this mix of materials can’t hurt… I am aware of one experiment by a very experienced professional speaker builder who made two pair of speakers in each material and could discern small differences between them, but could not say which was “better”. Unfortunately, Baltic Birch is not what it used to be (at least as currently imported to the US) and I had problems with voids and defects that required doing several panels over. If I were to do this again, and I may, I would go with a marine grade Mahogany plywood, such as those that are produced in your homeland I believe…

However, I also considered full MDF enclosures, brought to a high quality finish, such as you are considering. I have done this successfully on several non-speaker projects. With careful attention to sealing, priming and sanding, a very nice finish can be achieved. You could go for the piano laquer look, in any color you you choose!

Oh!, now I understand your last question. My exterior panels are only plywood, but cut to a “box joint” so only half the full thickness of the plywood is exposed. This is a retro Scandinavian trick (I believe) to minimize the exposure of plywood edges…

Looking forward to hearing about your progress, and I’m sure we will all offer advice as you move along...
Cheers!
John

[Johnny]

Laurie,
Thanks for your post. You caught me at a good time. This morning I was just pulling out the woofers to try a new stuffing arrangement.

Before the holidays, I had removed the lower stuffing entirely to get a reference point. The sound was much warmer, but the the bass and particularly upper bass and midrange totally lost focus. I then rolled the stuffing into a tube about arm’s thickness as you mentioned, and put this into the lower chamber with the bottom edge even with the top of the exit port. This put the top edge even with the bottom of the woofer cutout. Better clarity and focus, but a still reticent bass response.

Based on your last post, this morning I rolled the tube, then folded it in half like a horse shoe and inserted it into the chamber so the bottom edge was even with the top of the exit port, but now the upper part of the stuffing was well below the woofer- about half the distance from the woofer to the exit port. This was the nugget I’ve been looking for! Apparently the woofer was not “breathing” properly before. OMG! I went back to my lp’s. Band of Gypsy’s (Hendrix) was Alive and well. Mahavishnu Orchestra’s “Birds of Fire” was thundering, and delicate, and detailed, and startling- “experienced” like never before.

I have more to say about the flawless performance in the upper registers, vocals, jazz, horns, cymbals, string quartets, etc., in the critical crossover region, but I must find the words…

Cheers!
John

[AKSA]

John,

I for one - and I'm confident Laurie feels the same - await those well chosen words, and indeed, I need to ask you for your considered thoughts on assembly you alluded to a couple months back......

A very Happy New Year to you and your family - and to all AKSAphiles here.  Expect more from Aspen this year!   

Cheers,

Hugh

[RonR]

This might be old news, but I've just noticed that due to some sort of re-organisation in the parent company, the Peerless HDS 810921 Tweeter used in the Vsonics has become:

Scan-Speak Discovery D2608/9130 1" Textile Dome HDS Tweeter

I'm not sure if there are any changes to the specs, but it looks identical from the pics I've seen.

The Data Sheet can be found here: http://scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2608-913000.pdf

Cheers,

Ron.