Vsonics build

RonR · « **Reply #80 on:** 26 Jan 2010, 02:05 pm »

Thanks for the explanation Laurie,

I'll have a look at my duff tweeter to see if it can be repaired by your method. It seems like the ones I have are the later models, as the plastic softened quite easily when soldering.

Hugh,

Don't feel bad, t'was my decision to solder the tweeter connectors as "belt and braces" on final assembly.
Note to self: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Cheers,

Ron.

painkiller · « **Reply #81 on:** 2 Feb 2010, 06:26 pm »

I've melted one of these tweeters myself. Voice coil isn't particularly resistant to overheating. I tried to be very careful with the soldering iron, but I still managed to fry it.

I'm much more fond of pro audio components. Compression drivers are always super rugged.

Johnny · « **Reply #82 on:** 15 Mar 2010, 07:43 pm »

Hello Hans,
Have you embarked on the Vsonics journey?
Best Regards,
John

Quote from: hybride on 26 Dec 2009, 09:43 am

Ron and Johnny, inspired by your work i have decide to build a pair of Vsonic's. I told Hugh that i promised myself not to build any speaker again in the future, but since i have the Lifeforce 100 amp -and i love it- i am really exciting what the Vsonic will bring as they will be the perfect couple. l live in the Netherlands and my technical English is not that well, but i learned a lot already from you pictures, thanks. I am not i a hurry and will do some shopping first to look after veneer MDF panels. i wonder if Plywood vs MDF has different characteristics? Plywood seems a more easy choice to work with for the outside baffles. I will report my progress in this thread.

AKSA · « **Reply #83 on:** 15 Mar 2010, 09:20 pm »

Hi John,

Thanks for your post! How are your speakers, are you enjoying all your recordings to the full?

Yes, Hans did buy the VSonics kit, and has started, and indeed nearly finished. He had some issues getting hold of the 884 Peerless 8" woofer, but managed to JUST sneak through and acquire a pair. Now that Tymphany is dissolved, Scanspeak has acquired all the designs from the company shell and doubtless they will produce new designs using the Peerless IP.

Laurie and I have moved on, a little painfully because the Peerless drivers were so damn good and cost effective, but we have redeveloped the VSonics to use the Scanspeak H1288 8" driver. There are changes to the crossover, of course, but there is no cost to sound quality at all, and we are thrilled about the results.

More information to come.....

Cheers,

Hugh

hybride · « **Reply #84 on:** 15 Mar 2010, 09:37 pm »

Quote from: Johnny on 15 Mar 2010, 07:43 pm

Hello Hans,
Have you embarked on the Vsonics journey?
Best Regards,
John

Hi John.
I recieved the Vsonic kit a month ago, but last week started with the enclosure. I am a bit confused about the bass hole. Hugh told me that both speakers are identical (bass hole right-behind), but when i look at the pictures of Ron he did it mirrored. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=2123

How have you done it?

Johnny · « **Reply #85 on:** 15 Mar 2010, 11:04 pm »

Good for you! I'm glad you're on your way.
I'm sure you will hear from Hugh or Laurie, but to answer your question as to what I did, I built them with both bass holes on the right according to instructions (for a change!). I puzzled about this too, and can't think why it would make a difference, but I think the important thing is that the exit hole from the main front chamber should be on the opposite side of the bass hole, so that the path goes up and over the rear internal divider and down though the bass hole into the lower chamber.

Personally, I would have found it easier to keep the mirror image thing a constant in my head throughout the building process...

Keep us posted and feel free to post any questions.

Cheers,
Jy

Quote from: hybride on 15 Mar 2010, 09:37 pm

Hi John.
I recieved the Vsonic kit a month ago, but last week started with the enclosure. I am a bit confused about the bass hole. Hugh told me that both speakers are identical (bass hole right-behind), but when i look at the pictures of Ron he did it mirrored. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=2123

How have you done it?

Johnny · « **Reply #86 on:** 15 Mar 2010, 11:29 pm »

Hi Hugh,
Good to hear from you.

Yes, still "gobsmacked" and at a loss for words. Unfortunately I have been going through another period of distracting demands on my time, and so, just sink into the music when the opportunity comes. The LP's are particularly rewarding. I will try to share my listening impressions soon...

Interestingly, and not coincidentally I believe, the wife has lately taken a great interest in the stereo, for the first time ever. Wants to know how to switch everything in. I often come home to a Pandora stream via the sb3, or our local public radio station that has recently gone over to 24/7 classical music. And it is obvious it has been on all afternoon! How can I top that in praise for your work?

I had a feeling that there would be a bit of a shake up after the Peerless buyout, and wondered how it would resolve. Any change to the enclosure required with the new driver?

Cheers!
Jy

Quote from: AKSA on 15 Mar 2010, 09:20 pm

Hi John,

Thanks for your post! How are your speakers, are you enjoying all your recordings to the full?

Yes, Hans did buy the VSonics kit, and has started, and indeed nearly finished. He had some issues getting hold of the 884 Peerless 8" woofer, but managed to JUST sneak through and acquire a pair. Now that Tymphany is dissolved, Scanspeak has acquired all the designs from the company shell and doubtless they will produce new designs using the Peerless IP.

Laurie and I have moved on, a little painfully because the Peerless drivers were so damn good and cost effective, but we have redeveloped the VSonics to use the Scanspeak H1288 8" driver. There are changes to the crossover, of course, but there is no cost to sound quality at all, and we are thrilled about the results.

More information to come.....

Cheers,

Hugh

Tliner · « **Reply #87 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 12:28 am »

Hi John & All,

A few months ago, to my utter amazement while I happened to have my VSonics upside down when testing a crossover for the SEAS H1288 woofer, I found that after all these years of testing and playing around with them the boxes are a mirror image of each other. Obviously there is no difference in the sound at all. There is no reason why the sound should be different either.

I had finished adding a new inductor to the left speaker and reached over to the right hand speaker without looking and gently placed the inductor where I thought the bass hole wasn't. Clunk, the un soldered inductor vanished down the hole to the inner depths. I carefully shook the speaker obviously moving the inductor further into the depths. I finally retrieved the inductor and a few "lost" screws and resistors with it. Then I slowly looked at the left speaker and back again and a few more times 'till the penny fell. The speakers are a mirror imqage of each other.

A few days later I decided to take the grills off and I had swapped the speakers over, L to R etc. I might be having myself on but I had been thinking that the sound stage was wider than usual. Give a go at swapping the speakers over, you might have a new experience too!!

Have fun,

Cheers,

Laurie.

Tliner · « **Reply #88 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 01:49 am »

Hi All,

The hole size for tyhe Peerless 830884 is a nominal 225.2 mm and the SEAS H1288 is a nominal 220.6 mm diameter. The SEAS driver (no flat sides) still fits easily but is very close to the edge of the box. The grill MDF has to be increased to about 16 mm thick and relieved on the inside to clear the driver by a few mm. The front edge of the grill can be rounded off a bit ( say a 16 mm radius or what ever you fancy) rather than being a right angle corner to eliminate the appearence of bulkyness. Always measure the actual driver diameter before you cut the hole. It is very hard to make a neat rebated hole with a knife or chisel. I have had the same brand of 12" woofers from the same batch vary by some 3 mm in diameter. Don't rely upon the data sheets if you want the drivers to have a snug fit.

I just looked at my VSonics and found that even the binding post blocks are positioned mirror image too! Even though the binding post blocks were out of a sealed pack, I found when I fired the speakers up the bass was non existant and the sound was generally diffuse. No imaging, sound stage worth speaking of, just a terrible sound. The speakers had to be out of phase with each other. The problem was that the out of phase was due to the terminal knobs had beeing swapped from one side of the block to the other during assembly. I duly connected up the leads red to red etc without checking for any tricks. Still a little puzzled after I checked the internal wiring and crossover, finding it all ok I then realised that the speaker leads were connected to the wrong terminals due to the colour of the knob mix up. I had a good listen and was pleased. I did not even notice the terminal blocks were on opposite sides, wow??.

Cheers,

Laurie

Johnny · « **Reply #89 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 01:58 am »

Devil in the details
A truism...

hybride · « **Reply #90 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 04:26 pm »

Laurie,
So to be 100% sure; it doesn't matter on which side the bass port is. The only thing that matters is that the bass port and V-baffle 'port' are on opposite sides. Is that right?

Thanks

RonR · « **Reply #91 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 09:03 pm »

Hi Hans,

I constructed the Vsonics cabinets mirrored because it appealed to the OCD/Audio Nervosa side of my nature - just in case there was the slightest chance of asymmetrical dispersion from the TL ports. Hugh and Laurie assured me this was not the case, but I went and did it anyway.

Cheers,

Ron.

AKSA · « **Reply #92 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 10:17 pm »

Ah, Chief,

The old 'OCD and audio nervosa' trick, something I'm sure Maxwell Smart commented on.

How I love this game, it's what we are all here for!

Cheers,

Hugh

Tliner · « **Reply #93 on:** 17 Mar 2010, 12:52 am »

Hi Hans,

The bass port and V-baffle port should be on opposite sides. That configuration allows the sound to travel down the front chamber, up the left or right rear chamber depending which way you are building the speakers, then down the opposite rear chamber then out the bass port. You should be able to place a piece of string from the woofer continuously to the bass port. If you can't pull the string through you have stuffed up somehow.

Many years ago a DIY client put the central V upside down in both speakers with the V-baffle port directly behind the woofer at the top. That confused the sound no end. The mids and bass was poor, sounded like there was some sort of built in reverberation unit, not what was expected. Unfortunately the glue and screw job was very good and the speakers could not be undone. The client was happy after he built a second pair of speakers. He later commented that he should have looked at the assembly photo and the instructions more carefully.

Cheers,

Laurie

hybride · « **Reply #94 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 10:40 pm »

Hi all,
Well, if this isn't a record

I builded de speakers in two days! (I was good prepared). I build them without any finishing. I will do that later. Now heard the first notes, will play further tomorrow. The building was nice to do. Whats so important is that all parts are exactly the good size. In my case they where not! aargghh, I emphasized this twice to the carpenter, but it didn't work out. Here are some pictures of the building process;

Johnny · « **Reply #95 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 10:54 pm »

Congratulations Hans!

Tliner · « **Reply #96 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 01:12 am »

Congratulations Hans!

Once you receive the cut wood and have all the tools and adhesive ready it usually takes about 16 or so hours to get VSonics running. Then there is the finishing which can take allsorts of time depending if you have to veneer them or not.

I had to do a double take when I first saw your photos of the work in progress. The photos of my VSonics at that stage look exactly the same (so they should actually) but the style and colour of the carpet you used appears to be the same too.

If your carpenter has cutting equipment that can cut within the tolerance of + - 0.25 mm there is usually not a problem. But there are not many carpenters that can cut to 0 tolerance. My carpenter is so good that I have to groove and really roughen the surfaces to be glued so that the glue is not squeezed out of the joint when the parts are clamped.

I usually build speakers and get them going as soon as possible then finish them off later. But I can end up with music withdrawl symptoms if finishing takes too long.

When will we read your listening impressions of the VSonics? But remember that the drivers can take a few hours toto even days to run in. The should become even sweeter over time.

Cheers,

Laurie

hybride · « **Reply #97 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 09:22 pm »

Laurie, a big compliment to you and offcourse Hugh! You guys know how to reproduce music. The Vsonics and the Lifeforce100 are a perfect marriage. Before i bought the Vsonics i told Hugh that i had personal doubts. Since i have expensive top of the line Focal speakers (1027BE), the change that the Vsonics could come near to this quality would be wishfull thinking in my consideration. But a speaker that perfectly matches an amp i love and the fact that it is a transmissionline design got me curious enough to buy them.

I just have listened some hours without any expectations. They impress me! The tonal balance is correct. The sound is holistic, not attacking. Deep basses are not booming, they have a natural impact. The total soundstage has a lively presentation and balanced dynamics. They can handle pretty much volume without loosing control. It's attractive en enjoyable to listen. I have to listen more to get into details, but at this point i want to let you know that i am very happy with them.

AKSA · « **Reply #98 on:** 22 Mar 2010, 01:19 am »

Hans,

Let me too offer my congratulations, you have done a fine job on the build. Not easy to do a good job, either.

Most of all, and I'm sure Laurie would be delighted as well as me, you like the sounds they make. Speakers are in large measure a matter of taste, but the sound we go for is neutral, natural, and highly resolving without fatigue - a difficult balance if you throw in exceptional imaging as well. That you have noticed all these qualities is a vindication of our approach, and a satisfying conclusion to your purchase. And thank you for sharing all this positive information with us!

Groetjes,

Hugh

PJR · « **Reply #99 on:** 27 Mar 2010, 03:27 pm »

Hi Ron

I'm new to this forum, and will start building a pair of VSonics in the near future (Hugh would say its LONG overdue, as I've had all the parts for 18 months). I am impressed with your attention to details - especially the "Hammerited" woofer frames. Two questions, if I may: (1) did you first use a Hammerite primer; and (2) how did you protect the cone and its suspension from the volatiles in the paint?

Peter Roberts
Maroochydore Qld