[zybar]

So, is the real intent of this thread to show that one can get more bang for the buck so to speak with digital vs. vinyl?

If so, the answer is always going to be "yes". AND, throw in that vinyl does require more work to get right so there is also a larger personal sweat equity payment.

One can do a music server, DAC, and a lot of downloads (hi rez lossless) for $5K and get very close to vinyl in that cost range. IMO, FWIW, etc.

Nope, my real intent is to understand what $5k gets you for a vinyl setup - no hidden agenda or comparisons.

George

[Brown]

A Rega or Kuzma. Save on table then match a VG cart with the arm of choice. IMO the arm cart combo will make the biggest difference for the good.

[Dan_ed]

Nope, my real intent is to understand what $5k gets you for a vinyl setup - no hidden agenda or comparisons.

George

Ok. I think it would have been a valid point, but not what you were after. 

I will only offer a budget breakdown and suggest looking carefully to the used market. It seems to me that most used gear goes for roughly 1/2 price, so you could be talking about $8K-10K retail. My approach would set about $2K for the phono stage and the other $3K for the table/arm/cart. Of that $3K I would look to get the best table and arm possible. A lesser cartridge will most always sound better on a better table and through a better phono stage. Going the other way around just clogs up the pipe so you never hear that awesome high priced cartridge.

I hope this helps in some way.

[ohenry]

Cool George...with a record cleaner (and cleaners and setup tools already at hand) you have the underpinnings for great analog already there 

Here's my suggestion(s)

Deck
Well-Tempered Amadeus - US$2850 with free shipping @ http://www.osageaudio.com/well_tempered.html
I've yet to hear this, but it seems like a sweet price point for so much old-fashioned technology: a bearing-less, 10.5" tonearm included (no bearing chatter and great tracking assured), regulated DC drive, innovative main bearing, etc...

Hey TCG,
What about the VPI Classic?  Are you still getting that one?

[toobluvr]

Unlike other pieces in the audio chain (amp, preamp, cdp, etc) it is not easy for any one person to sample multiple vinyl setups in his own system.  So I feel it is only fair to comment on what one actually owns or has extensive experience with.  Recommendations or comparisons are not really relevant, unless said gear has been owned.

I can say that my Kuzma setup is providing great enjoyment.  Especially since recently I have really been focusing on cartridge set-up, and it is really starting to sing.  The superiority over my digital is much wider now than it has ever been.

Stabi "s" table + Stogi "s" arm:   $3000 new,  $1500 used.

The visual appeal is undeniable.  Sounds as good as it looks.
Easy to set up, easy to use, easy to maintain.





For cartridge, an earlier post recommended Dynavector 20X.  I own it and it is indeed an excellent cartridge, but I prefer my Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood.  It works very well on the Kuzma.  In my setup and to my ears it is noticeably better than the Dyna, and only costs a few dollars more.  IMO, the reviews have nailed this one.  Believe the hype.  Possibly the best MM cartridge available?  One reviewer said there is no cartridge below $1000 that he would rather own.  As I haven't heard all or even most of the sub $1k offerings, I can't vouch for that.  But I can say that it is very very good.

The Virtuoso Wood is $800 new;  $500 for mint used.

I also prefer the Virtuoso to my pricier Benz H20.  And even though my Dyna and Benz have healthy outputs (2.8 and 2.5 mV respectively) the Virtuoso's very robust 3.6mV output provides a gutsier and more driving sound that works better in my setup, and would probably work better in most typical MM setups.....especially if using speakers below 90 db sensitive.

I have no desire to change the Virtuoso at the moment, but if I did, I would go one step up the Clearaudio lineup to the Maestro for $200 more.  That's how much I like it!

I would recommend, at least initially, going with MM or high output MC over low output MC.  What you save on the head amp and cheaper HO cartridge, and you can sink elsewhere in the analog chain (ie table, arm or phono section) and possibly even get bigger buck bang than with a LOMC setup.  You can always add LOMC capability later.

I did borrow a Koetsu Rosewood LOMC that I ran through Blueberry Xtreme's MC section.  By all accounts it is a good cartridge and loved by many.  Personally I would not sink the xtra $ into it.   These days there are just too many good sounding and reasonably priced HO cartridges, both MM and MC.

I use two full function preamps (JuicyMusic Blueberry Xtreme and Air Tight ATC-1), so I don't use and cannot recommend, a stand alone phono section.  But so far only $2k (buying used) of your $5K budget has been spent, so there are tons of options available.  And they are very easy to swap in and out of your system, so a bunch can be tried to get the right "match".

The Stogi arm has a captive phono cable that runs from the cartridge pins to the preamp, so no need to buy one.  But if you get an arm that needs one, Zu Xaus is a nice choice.  I use it on my SME V and it is excellent.  It is well made, thin and flexible and very easy to use.  Often seen on EBay direct from ZU at $150 BIN price.  Really cheap for a cable of this caliber.




 

[ecramer]

Cool George...with a record cleaner (and cleaners and setup tools already at hand) you have the underpinnings for great analog already there 

Here's my suggestion(s)

Deck
Well-Tempered Amadeus - US$2850 with free shipping @ http://www.osageaudio.com/well_tempered.html
I've yet to hear this, but it seems like a sweet price point for so much old-fashioned technology: a bearing-less, 10.5" tonearm included (no bearing chatter and great tracking assured), regulated DC drive, innovative main bearing, etc...

Hey TCG,
What about the VPI Classic?  Are you still getting that one?

I was surprised he didn't recommend that one also  then again i believe it's still vapor ware yet. very interesting thread so

[TheChairGuy]

Hey TCG,
What about the VPI Classic?  Are you still getting that one?

Yup, Ed & Henry, it's still vaporware...plagued by delays with the supplier of the new aluminum platters Sheila @ VPI told me recently.

That would be another recommendation for George/zybar...and save him $300 over the Well-Tempered.  I'm partial to longer-than-9" arms now having experienced the better tracking with one now.  The universe gets smaller when you subtract out the 9" arms. 

Sheila is quite a hoot, btw (I'm from her part of the country, so I understood her pretty well )

John

[mbakes]

Galibier Serac > Aritsan Audio tone arm > Dynavector 20X cart. > $600 phono pre = $5000.00

I figure that the phono pre can be upgraded down the road, if needed.

[JoshK]

Galibier Serac > Aritsan Audio tone arm > Dynavector 20X cart. > $600 phono pre = $5000.00

I figure that the phono pre can be upgraded down the road, if needed.

I thought of that too when reading this thread.  However, I'd probably opt for the Teres 260 instead due to the rim drive motor, but that bumps you over the limit. 

I am still interested in the rim drive upgrade for my Teres but I'd actually have to have my vinyl rig set up again to make it worth it.   

[Tangent]
I have been thinking of redo'ing the base for my Teres and have thought about soapstone, but the question is whether I can cut it.  Drilling wouldn't be too hard with a diamond hole saw and my drill press, but the cutting to shape could be.  Maybe my wet tile saw would prove useful.
[/Tangent]

[Mariusz]

I wish I could spend that much on my analog rig.
Well, actually my both rigs might cost that much.




1. This DIY table based on Consonance Droplet LP 5.0 turntable in my plinth, ceramic bearing ball, belt, tone-arm plate.   Cost = $500
* Ringmat = $100 new
* Weight puck with bubble level = $25 new
* Speed box - Consonance/Opera Audio = $500 new
* Arm - Moarch UP4 = $950 new
* Cartridge =Cartridgeman, Musicmaker III with Isolator = $750 new
* Iso-pads = $12 set of 4
* Cones = ??? do not remember but cheap.
* Phonostage - Consonance/Opera Audio Reference 40 MM/MC with impedance switch 5ohm/40ohm = $950

Total = around $2837 , if bought at list prices...... substantially more

2.Rig number two includes parts of MMF7 in Bamboo plinth, SME 3009 II Imp. arm with Soundsmith SMMC-1 cart. Cost ? Around 2K total.
Phonostage - Bella EXtreme MM (Tour demo piece) $1K or so. Total - around 3K.

3. Rig number three is not ready but it will include vintage Lenco-75 and modified Scott 299B vintage integrated with phonostage.
 I have not decide on the arm cart yet but most likely Soundsmith cart with some vintage arm in custom plinth of course. Cost ? = +- 3K
In the future I might add RWA new battery phono which is almost ready.

Wait  that is a lot more then 5K. 

Crap. 

Cheers
Mariusz

(edit for 1st rig list)

[vinyl_guy]

Try a Pro-ject RM-10 with a Sumiko Blackbird cartridge ($3,499 new) and a PS Audio GCPH phono stage ($995 new). That will give you a very good vinyl front end for $4,500 new. I have the Blackbird in my set up and it is a great cartridge for under $1,000. It is a high output MC so will work with most MM phono stages w/o a step up. I have not hear the RM-10 or GCPH, but all of the reviews I have read have concluded that they are good values for the price.

Laura

[orthobiz]

Try a Pro-ject RM-10 with a Sumiko Blackbird cartridge ($3,499 new) and a PS Audio GCPH phono stage ($995 new). That will give you a very good vinyl front end for $4,500 new. I have the Blackbird in my set up and it is a great cartridge for under $1,000. It is a high output MC so will work with most MM phono stages w/o a step up. I have not hear the RM-10 or GCPH, but all of the reviews I have read have concluded that they are good values for the price.

Laura

GCPH was recently 699 at musicdirect, if memory serves me well. But I look now and it's back to 999.

Paul

[thebearded1]

a vpi scout, jwm memorial arm, dynavector 10x cart, and a pS Audio phono stage will still leave you money to buy 50-75 albums...or you can get a manley phono stage and put the vinyl on credit.....

[ecramer]

Galibier Serac > Aritsan Audio tone arm > Dynavector 20X cart. > $600 phono pre = $5000.00

I figure that the phono pre can be upgraded down the road, if needed.

I thought of that too when reading this thread.  However, I'd probably opt for the Teres 260 instead due to the rim drive motor, but that bumps you over the limit. 

I am still interested in the rim drive upgrade for my Teres but I'd actually have to have my vinyl rig set up again to make it worth it.   

[Tangent]
I have been thinking of redo'ing the base for my Teres and have thought about soapstone, but the question is whether I can cut it.  Drilling wouldn't be too hard with a diamond hole saw and my drill press, but the cutting to shape could be.  Maybe my wet tile saw would prove useful.
[/Tangent]

Soapstone routes very nicely with carbide bits do not think you would need diamond bits to drill the holes. When i used make hot plates to keep pizza warm when i worked for a commercial kitchen company. Actually pretty easy to work with. the only thing you really have to watch out for or quarts nodulas in the soap stone as they don't route real well 

[woodsyi]

Galibier Serac > Aritsan Audio tone arm > Dynavector 20X cart. > $600 phono pre = $5000.00

I figure that the phono pre can be upgraded down the road, if needed.

I thought of that too when reading this thread.  However, I'd probably opt for the Teres 260 instead due to the rim drive motor, but that bumps you over the limit. 

I am still interested in the rim drive upgrade for my Teres but I'd actually have to have my vinyl rig set up again to make it worth it.   

[Tangent]
I have been thinking of redo'ing the base for my Teres and have thought about soapstone, but the question is whether I can cut it.  Drilling wouldn't be too hard with a diamond hole saw and my drill press, but the cutting to shape could be.  Maybe my wet tile saw would prove useful.
[/Tangent]

Rim drive I think is worth it.  (Of course, I have to say it.  )  Any progress on the platter?  I am now seriously interested as I am still spinning the lead loaded acrylic one. 

[JoshK]

Thanks for the comments guys.  I am really interested to try making the plinth from soapstone.  I think that can be practice if I choose to try to make the platter from it as well.  I've thought of the platter, to Rim's question, but it presents tougher challenges.

But if Ed is right and it routes well, then you can use a circle jig (which I have and love) to cut the platter out.  Sounds easy enough.  I think I am going to have to try. 

Now if anyone knows of a good place to buy a smallish quantity of soapstone, I'm all ears.  I saw that there is a soapstone dealer in Hackensack, but not sure they sell small quantities.

Maybe I should start another thread to discuss this topic further.

[Dan_ed]

Josh,

You can contact Jonathan Weiss at Oswald's Mill Audio, he is making slate platters and has made a few for Chris at Teres. I have no idea what the cost is. He could probably help out with some tips if nothing else.

[JoshK]

I've talked with Jonathan before, but the price is the question.  He didn't make any suggestions on the price, and I am not hopefully given some of his other pricing.  I think I'm still interested in trying out the soapstone experiment.

[woodsyi]

Josh,

If you cut and polish me one while you are doing yours, I can pick a slab or two up from here.

http://www.blackpearlsoapstone.com/Inventory/SL-Inventory.html

[JoshK]

I created a thread in the lab about the soapstone idea.  Its a topic that spans the two circles.  I didn't want to further derail this thread.  Also, I wanted to discuss the more technical how-to's so I thought the lab seemed appropriate.