[zybar]

I asked this question in a different thread, but thought it might be fun to have it in a stand alone thread.

For the purposes of this thread, assume you need to buy the following:

Turntable
Arm
Cartridge
Phono Stage

We can leave out cables, ic's, power cords, etc...

George

[ecramer]

I really didn't have a off the top my head answer on that question George and i have been thinking about it since you posed it in the other thread and i really still don't My first thoughts went to a uses VPI TNT TT, But as far as arm cartridge phono stage i don't have enough knowledge to make statement  passed what i am personally using.

ED

[zybar]

I really didn't have a off the top my head answer on that question George and i have been thinking about it since you posed it in the other thread and i really still don't My first thoughts went to a uses VPI TNT TT, But as far as arm cartridge phono stage i don't have enough knowledge to make statement  passed what i am personally using.

ED

That's cool Ed.

Let's see what some people come up with.

The best vinyl setup I owned included the following gear:

Linn LP12/Ittok VIII arm/Valhalla Power Supply
Benz Glider Cartridge
Modified EAR 834P phono stage with NOS tubes

I think if all of that was purchased used today, it would run around $3-4k.

It was a very musical setup and I could and did listen to it for hours at a time.

George

[Audiovista]

Nice thread... 

I'll be curious to see if there is a commonality of how the money is spread between different components George listed (percentage-wise)?

[pas]

For a complete vinyl setup you'll also need an RCM & fluid, Brush(s), alignment gauge, stylus force gauge, etc.  This could set you back some big bucks depending on your decisions.  So lets say the ancillary equipment & supplies will run 750-1000, 20% of the budget.  A VPI Scoutmaster w/JMW 9 will run about 2K used, Ortophon 2m Black 700.  An assembled Coronet 2 for about 1K and you still have room for some music!

[Berndt]

the price of vinyl rigs that I can afford inspired me to DIY.
In the end I am very glad.
I am running an empire 208 replinth, diy.
A DIY rb250 tonearm rebuild.
A DIY 6sl7 mm phono stage.
A Garrot Brothers mm cart.
It is a tough hobby to scraatch start. It has taken me a year to sling enough solder and chips to finish this combo, and that was after a streak of turntables/carts/ phono stages.
The more I do the better it gets.
Sorry I am not answering the basic question here, but it is a tough call for me to fork over all that cash and not be there yet.
Good luck!

[2bigears]

  will a cheap VPI sound better than top of the line Rega P9 used ????  2 or 2500 gets you a used P9......

[doug s.]

my present rig consists of
-oracle delphi, upgraded to mkv, w/exception of motor/power supply
-origin-live dc motor kit
-hewlett packard lab-grade power supply
-origin-live silver taper tonearm (factory cabling)
-ortofon mc25-fl cartridge
-pentagon ps-3 fono stage
-alpha-core micro-purl ag ic's from fono stage to preamp.

judicious shopping means i have not quite $3k inwested in the complete set-up.  i have a lyra clavis cartridge that i got from klaus bunge w/zero hours after a rebuild w/vdh gyger stylus, that's never been installed; it set me back another $500.

based upon my prior experience w/a stock empire 208, used with both wintage grado wood arm, and rs-labs rs-a1 arm, i suspect berndt's set-up is at least as good as my oracle, tho, for considerably less coin.     some day, i will get to modding my empire 498 to take my o-l modded rb250, (heavy platter from the earlier empires, w/suspension from the later 598/698's; it should be pretty nice, me-thinks...  i will have about $600 into it, which includes arm/table/fono-cable.

doug s.

[analognut]

$2500 got me a used Sota Star vacuum table w/ SME V.
$700 more and Sota:
   1- Rebuilt & upgraded the platter to the top of the line Vinyl-Format mat.
   2- Upgraded the bearing to that of a Nova (Zirconium ball), and installed a new sapphire thrust plate.
   3- Balanced the new platter & bearing.
$275 more got me a brand-new sealed in box Denon DL-103R.

$3500 is waaay more than I was going to spend.

But then, I also got waaaay more than I was looking to get.

I am playing it through my Yamaha CX-1 preamp. The stock MC section switches 220 and 1k ohms.
I adapted it so that it now switches 100 and 152 ohms, using y-adapters and a 180 ohm resistor
in parallel on each channel.

Can anyone top this, bang for the buck? 

[ecramer]

I think this is the first thread that I've seen people post systems that come out below the suggested price point  I really expected to see things from $6 to $8k listed 

Might start with this for 3350

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1243942862&/Vpi-Super-Scoutmaster-signatur

[viggen]

I've recently been bouncing the same question off my noggin as I tried to correlate percentage of each component's expenditure with my total vinyl setup's expenditure to which is possibly the weakest link in my set up.

In my current set up:

Table            $1500   42%
Arm             $1100   31%
Cart             $500    14% 
Head Amp    $450           13%
Total            $3,550   100%

In my previous set up:

Table            $1,500    43%
Arm            $700    20%
Cart            $500    14%
Head Amp    $800    23%
Total            $3,500    100%

The major difference between the first and second set up is arm cost increased by $400 and head amp decreased by $350.  By purely looking at percentage, my head amp is currently the weak link.  I think most people have head amps that cost more than their cart? 

Of course, I know percentages doesn't matter.  Just playing with the idea in my head.

[TheChairGuy]

George, what is your system currently? 

Must it be all-new components or can used be tossed in?

Whatever I recommend will involve a record cleaning machine...the difference with and without it I have found to be substantial enough to prefer vinyl over CD on the same recording in the past.  But it is a pain-in-the-ane...are you open to it?

This all would help zero in a system recommendation for you.

John

[doug s.]

I think this is the first thread that I've seen people post systems that come out below the suggested price point  I really expected to see things from $6 to $8k listed 

Might start with this for 3350

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1243942862&/Vpi-Super-Scoutmaster-signatur

buy the cartridge the seller is listing, and you are over $5k.  w/o a fono stage...   

doug s.

[zybar]

George, what is your system currently? 

Must it be all-new components or can used be tossed in?

Whatever I recommend will involve a record cleaning machine...the difference with and without it I have found to be substantial enough to prefer vinyl over CD on the same recording in the past.  But it is a pain-in-the-ane...are you open to it?

This all would help zero in a system recommendation for you.

John

I still have my Nitty Gritty semi-automatic record cleaner and all the other things needed to setup a turntable.  I never sold those items when I sold my Linn  table.

That being said, I am really approaching this more from a theoretical standpoint; it is highly unlikely that I will be adding a vinyl rig to my setup anytime soon.

My system is up to date in that section of Audio Circle.  It is easier to go there vs. me listing it all out. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?systemid=711

George

[doug s.]

re: cost, well...  i dunno the retail of everything, but here's the breakdown in actual cost of stuff in my winyl rig:

$1200 - oracle, updated to mkv specs, w/o motor or p/s
$550 - origin-live silver taper tonearm (retail ~ $1700)
$300 - origin-live dc motor kit (bought new; they have increased in price since then)
$100 - hp lab grade power supply ($1200?)
$200 - ortofon mc25-fl cartridge (bought new, they have increased in price since then)
$50 - alphacore micro-purl-ag ic's ($150?)
$600 - pentagon ps-3 fono stage ($2k)

doug s.

[ecramer]

I think this is the first thread that I've seen people post systems that come out below the suggested price point  I really expected to see things from $6 to $8k listed 

Might start with this for 3350

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1243942862&/Vpi-Super-Scoutmaster-signatur

buy the cartridge the seller is listing, and you are over $5k.  w/o a fono stage...   

doug s.

Thats why i think i would go with a dynavector 20xl at $700 which puts me at $4050 so find me a $1000 phono Pre that will work

ED

[arthurs]

That being said, I am really approaching this more from a theoretical standpoint; it is highly unlikely that I will be adding a vinyl rig to my setup anytime soon.


George

Thank god you added this disclaimer, this thread was freaking me out a little....   

[chosenhandle]

assuming you are looking for new equipment, I think a real steal is the Kuzma Stabi w/Kuzma Stogi arm and Kuzma (shelter) cart. I think that set comes in around $4000. Personally, I think the EAR 834 is hard to beat for the money, so for roughly $5,300 you would have an outstanding set-up.

I agree with the others regarding used gear...there are some great values out there!

[TheChairGuy]

Cool George...with a record cleaner (and cleaners and setup tools already at hand) you have the underpinnings for great analog already there 

Here's my suggestion(s)

Deck
Well-Tempered Amadeus - US$2850 with free shipping @ http://www.osageaudio.com/well_tempered.html
I've yet to hear this, but it seems like a sweet price point for so much old-fashioned technology: a bearing-less, 10.5" tonearm included (no bearing chatter and great tracking assured), regulated DC drive, innovative main bearing, etc. 

Isolation Shelf
A thick granite or maple wood platform and some brass toes - US$125.00

Pre-amp
Pioneer SX-a9-J - a fabulous receiver with a great MM section, and an okay MC section, tuner with preamp out jacks to continue using your Atma-sphere amps (I use it in this way).  It's remote controlled and even looks a LOT like your Plinius (in case aesthetics are important to you).  Bettering the Plinium...it is fully dual mono right back to the toroids nearly assuring great fidelity. It'll set you back the princely sum of $750.00: http://eusa.stores.yahoo.net/pielsxauresx1.html

Cartridge
Whatever Dynavector or Grado that fits your price point...the Well Tempered was designed with Dynavectors and Grado's love fluid damped arms.  Either would probably be a great accompaniment to the deck.  You could buy and use a low output cartridge if you choose Dynavector as the Pioneer is loaded at 100ohms on the MC setting.  However, I'd recommend a high output Grado Woody as tyhe MM section is better on the Pioneer and the low output Grados need to be run at higher than 100 ohms to not sound overdamped.

The Amadeus, a Grado Reference Sonata 1, the shelf/toes and the Pioneer (as preamp) would set you back about US$4200 and you'd likely better your old vinyl system handily.  I have a VPI Classic on order for 3 months and each month it's delayed I am tempted to try the Well Tempered for about the same moola 

I'd have recommended direct drive as I think many of them are great...but there are not any outstanding mid-priced (new) decks that I know of.  It would require you to go into the used market for a vintage beauty

John

btw, a pic of the Pioneer (has a similar sweeping front fascia of the Plinius):

I still have my Nitty Gritty semi-automatic record cleaner and all the other things needed to setup a turntable.  I never sold those items when I sold my Linn  table.

That being said, I am really approaching this more from a theoretical standpoint; it is highly unlikely that I will be adding a vinyl rig to my setup anytime soon.

My system is up to date in that section of Audio Circle.  It is easier to go there vs. me listing it all out. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?systemid=711

George

[Dan_ed]

So, is the real intent of this thread to show that one can get more bang for the buck so to speak with digital vs. vinyl?

If so, the answer is always going to be "yes". AND, throw in that vinyl does require more work to get right so there is also a larger personal sweat equity payment.

One can do a music server, DAC, and a lot of downloads (hi rez lossless) for $5K and get very close to vinyl in that cost range. IMO, FWIW, etc.