[viggen]

Hello:

I am in a transaction to purchase a turntable with arm board drilled for a Moerch arm.  So, I guess I've narrowed down my choices of table (Amazon Model 2) and arm (Moerch UP4).  And, I also just made a deal to buy a Lehmann Black Cube SE.  So, I guess I got the phono pre down too.  Now, I just need a cartridge.

So, what do you think is a good cartridge for this set up? 

I think the Shelter 501 II is something most people would think of.  When I had my previous analog setup, Origin Live Aurora Gold/Silver/Trichord Dino+, I had the chance to compare a 501 and 301.  And, I much preferred the 301.  However, the 301's price has inflated quite a bit since it's on version 2 now.  I think it retails for $900, and it never comes up on the used market.  So, I am not too sure about the 501.

Another cartridge that I have my eye on is Denon DL-103 Pro that is available on ebay for $499.  I guess I can make do with a DL-103R which is about $140 cheaper..  But, the reason why I preferred the Shelter 301 over 501 is because the 301's high frequency energy is all over the 501's.  And, I've read similar things when comparing DL-103 Pro with DL-103R.  So, I thought perhaps the Pro would work better.  However, I read that Denon likes heavy and archaic tone arms like SME or Graham which seems to be the antithesis of Moerch tonearms.

So, what other cartridge should I be on the look out for?  Or, can I get away with using a DL-103 Pro with the right arm tube (yellow dot?).

Thanks.

[Mariusz]

I use "Red Dot" with CartridgeMan MusicMaker MkIII and isolator.


Also have 103R ......... nice but headache giving cartridge
(he is never happy).

BobM has the same arm and uses Dynavector 20X. It sounds preaty good too.


Cheers
Mariusz

[viggen]

Hi Mariusz. 

Long time no talk and thanks for your reply.

Is the 103r not tracking well with your Moerch with red dot?  Perhaps it is because the red dot is not heavy enough?

And, where did you get the isolator?  Did it come with the music man?  It reminds me of the Svelte Shelf or should I say Svelte Pad.  When I had my Gaincard, I placed it on the Svelte Shelf, and the sound became faster and cleaner.  Is this the same result you get when using that isolator?

Rgds,

Ed

What do you guys think of the ZYX Bloom? 

[Mariusz]

Hi Mariusz. 

Long time no talk and thanks for your reply.

Is the 103r not tracking well with your Moerch with red dot?  Perhaps it is because the red dot is not heavy enough?

And, where did you get the isolator?  Did it come with the music man?  It reminds me of the Svelte Shelf or should I say Svelte Pad.  When I had my Gaincard, I placed it on the Svelte Shelf, and the sound became faster and cleaner.  Is this the same result you get when using that isolator?

Rgds,

Ed

What do you guys think of the ZYX Bloom? 

Isolator is made by MusicMaker and I got it from the same dealer as a package.
It sure tracks better and subtle informations are more coherent. Since I got a great deal on both - I am not complaining.

As to Moerch red dot and 103R well, the Moerch website confirms comparability between the two. But you might be right about the weight as well as preferred older SME arms & Grahams.
 
ZYX has reputation but you have to ask someone else for actual feedback.

Best
Mariusz

[BobM]

Yup, I have the Dynavector 20X-H and it works very well with the DP-6. The resonant frequency of the 2 are perfect. Here's a link to a calculator that you may find useful:

http://www.resfreq.com/resonancecalculator.html

The red dot arm has an effective mass of 6 grams. You need to add the weight of the cartridge to that (8.6 g in my case), then plug in the cartridge compliance (12 in my case) to find the resonant frequency. The end result (12.27 in my case) should be between 10 - 14 hz, and closer to 12 is about perfect.

I also found that it was better to not use any damping silicon with this arm.

Bob

[toobluvr]

I heard the Dynavector and Moerch combo over at BobM's and can vouch for the synergy.  It sounds very nice.

I use the same cartridge on my SME V and Kuzma Stogi "s" arms and it works nicely in those applications as well.

Another reasonably priced MM cart that I own and really like is the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood.  It performs beyond its cost, but I don't know how it would match with the Moerch.   It is priced a bit above your budget, but maybe used puts it within reach?

[twitch54]

FWIW, I too can vouch for the 20x (albeit the medium, 1 millivolt version) although it does not qualify for your sub $500, unless buying used of course.

[ecramer]

I use the Dynavector 20x-L  on my VPI and am very happy with it FWIW

ED

[TheChairGuy]

viggen,

I wouldn't personally know what works for you on your new arm....but, surprised to see you selling your Origin Live tandem.  Have you heard it versus your new setup yet?

Most folks feel the Origin Live stuff is the bee's knee's.

I have the Origin Live Illustrious Mk. II arm and I have NOT (edit...oops) found it particularly HUGELY better than a modded Rega 250 or VTAF'ed Audioquest PT-6. Just wonderin' your thoughts....

John

[JCC]

What do you guys think of the ZYX Bloom? 

I have a ZYX RS-10 which is the predecessor to the Bloom. I hated my ZYX until I sent it to The Soundsmith, where they installed a contoured contact line stylus with a ruby cantilever installed. Now my ZYX has been transformed, and the result is phenomenal. I am now listening to LP's most of the time, and this cartridge extracts great sound and low level detail that is just amazing. Furthermore it is now tracking at 1 gram.

Finally, I love my formerly hated ZYX.

For your new cartridge, why don't you look at The Soundsmith SMCC2 or SMMCC3, which are in your price range. You can also look at the Soundsmith/Denon cartridges.

By the way, The Soundsmith SMMC1 which is a little higher in price, was just rated Class A by Stereophile, and lists for $750. It is interesting tha the SMMC1 is not the top of The Soundsmith line. Their top cartridge in the SMMC line is called The Voice.

[JoshK]

+1 20X-H user, when I actually had my table setup.

I wouldn't be the one to ask for comparison, but I can say that I noticed a bigger improvement going from a goldring to the Dynavector cart then from the Music Hall table to my DIY Teres. 

[viggen]

I do see a Dynavector 20XL on Audiogon that is around my budget.  Can someone sorta describe this cartridge's sound characteristics?

Thank you for everyone's input and for the resonance frequency link, Bob.

Besides using a Moerch arm with this table with arm board already drilled for a Moerch arm, I guess I can also go with a RS Lab's RS-A1 tonearm since this tonearm doesn't require fitting onto an arm board...

[toobluvr]

I do see a Dynavector 20XL on Audiogon that is around my budget.  Can someone sorta describe this cartridge's sound characteristics?

I bought my Dynavector 20X-H used and the seller said he was selling because it was "too warm" for him.  Well. we all know how subjective that is.  I don't find it that way, but I do prefer things on the smooth, warm and musical side.   I guess compared to pure neutrality, it might lean a bit that way, but certainly not so much that it is mushy, veiled, or lacking in dynamics or drive.

Overall, I find it to be well balanced top to bottom. I think it has excellent drive, pace and timing.   Not the last word in layering or dimensionality, but the bass is very nicely rendered.  It does a good job of unravelling complex pasages and allows you to hear the individual threads.  It does this not in an analytical or clinical way, but rather it preserves the organic wholeness of the music and allows it to hang together as a complete picture.  The music is rendered with nice solidity.

All in all, a slightly warm and musical cartridge that is easy to listen to, yet still has enough incisiveness, immediacy, detail and presence to keep ya interested.

I think the Positive Feedback reviewer does a good job in describing its performance, and I agree with his comments:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue3/dynavector.htm

I have not heard all or even most cartridges in this price range.  But I have been pleased with the Dyna and based on my experience I think it is very good value, and probably even over-achieves at its price.

[viggen]

viggen,

I wouldn't personally know what works for you on your new arm....but, surprised to see you selling your Origin Live tandem.  Have you heard it versus your new setup yet?

Most folks feel the Origin Live stuff is the bee's knee's.

I have the Origin Live Illustrious Mk. II arm and I have found it particularly HUGELY better than a modded Rega 250 or VTAF'ed Audioquest PT-6. Just wonderin' your thoughts....

John

Hi John.  Sold my table when I was projecting my funds were going to run low back when I just graduated college and couldn't find a stable job for almost a year!  I really am not an avid vinyl listener either.  I love the way it sounds, but 98% of the time I listen to music off my laptop as it doesn't require me to flip the record over every 20 mins.

Ed

[viggen]

I have a ZYX RS-10 which is the predecessor to the Bloom. I hated my ZYX until I sent it to The Soundsmith, where they installed a contoured contact line stylus with a ruby cantilever installed. Now my ZYX has been transformed, and the result is phenomenal. I am now listening to LP's most of the time, and this cartridge extracts great sound and low level detail that is just amazing. Furthermore it is now tracking at 1 gram.

Finally, I love my formerly hated ZYX.

For your new cartridge, why don't you look at The Soundsmith SMCC2 or SMMCC3, which are in your price range. You can also look at the Soundsmith/Denon cartridges.

By the way, The Soundsmith SMMC1 which is a little higher in price, was just rated Class A by Stereophile, and lists for $750. It is interesting tha the SMMC1 is not the top of The Soundsmith line. Their top cartridge in the SMMC line is called The Voice.

How much did the surgical implant cost?  I would imagine the installation of the new cantilever and stylus must be quite a bit on top of the cartridge.  But, the sound might rival the much much more expensive ZYX carts, so it's sort of a bargain to go this route?

[viggen]

I bought my Dynavector 20X-H used and the seller said he was selling because it was "too warm" for him.  Well. we all know how subjective that is.  I don't find it that way, but I do prefer things on the smooth, warm and musical side.   I guess compared to pure neutrality, it might lean a bit that way, but certainly not so much that it is mushy, veiled, or lacking in dynamics or drive.

Overall, I find it to be well balanced top to bottom. I think it has excellent drive, pace and timing.   Not the last word in layering or dimensionality, but the bass is very nicely rendered.  It does a good job of unravelling complex pasages and allows you to hear the individual threads.  It does this not in an analytical or clinical way, but rather it preserves the organic wholeness of the music and allows it to hang together as a complete picture.  The music is rendered with nice solidity.

All in all, a slightly warm and musical cartridge that is easy to listen to, yet still has enough incisiveness, immediacy, detail and presence to keep ya interested.

I think the Positive Feedback reviewer does a good job in describing its performance, and I agree with his comments:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue3/dynavector.htm

I have not heard all or even most cartridges in this price range.  But I have been pleased with the Dyna and based on my experience I think it is very good value, and probably even over-achieves at its price.

Thank you for your description.  This cart sounds on the warmer side of neutral which can be a good match with the German turntable and phono-pre I will be matching it up with.

[JCC]

How much did the surgical implant on the ZYX cost?  I would imagine the installation of the new cantilever and stylus must be quite a bit on top of the cartridge.  But, the sound might rival the much much more expensive ZYX carts, so it's sort of a bargain to go this route?

It was $350 plus shipping for their best stylus/cantilever combination. The prices range from $150 to $350.

I think that you are right, that the new ZYX/Soundsmith combination is probably a bargain approach. My new tracking force (1 gram) is much less that the entire ZYX line, and the sound is super. I wish that I had a bunch of cartridges to compare!

The improvement is phenomenal, almost too much to believe.

[Mariusz]

I do see a Dynavector 20XL on Audiogon that is around my budget. 

That is sale pending (unless it is you  ) but there is Soundsmith SMMC-1 for under $500.............. might interest you.
I have talked to Peter (owner) about SMMC-1 and Moerch and he said that it should work very nicely (medium compliance).
But you can not help but notice the dominance with positive comments about 20X-H Dynavector cartridge.

I just received delivery of ceramic ball bearings and will setup my Red Devil TT with Red Dot and MM MkIII for the evaluation.
(for those interested in this upgrade, go to BocaBearings.com  - the cost is about $5 each & free delivery)

Mariusz

[viggen]

It was $350 plus shipping for their best stylus/cantilever combination. The prices range from $150 to $350.

I think that you are right, that the new ZYX/Soundsmith combination is probably a bargain approach. My new tracking force (1 gram) is much less that the entire ZYX line, and the sound is super. I wish that I had a bunch of cartridges to compare!

The improvement is phenomenal, almost too much to believe.

You sure are making it tempting to get a Bloom and get it retipped down the road by Soundsmith.  I did go to their site and found, as you have mentioned, a bunch Denon carts that are already retipped.  And, once they are retipped (assuming you go with the $350), compliance shouldn't be an issue.  Thanks for the heads up.  Actually, I can probably go with a Denon DL-103 Pro and have it retipped after I put some mileage on it.

[viggen]

I do see a Dynavector 20XL on Audiogon that is around my budget. 

That is sale pending (unless it is you  ) but there is Soundsmith SMMC-1 for under $500.............. might interest you.
I have talked to Peter (owner) about SMMC-1 and Moerch and he said that it should work very nicely (medium compliance).
But you can not help but notice the dominance with positive comments about 20X-H Dynavector cartridge.

I just received delivery of ceramic ball bearings and will setup my Red Devil TT with Red Dot and MM MkIII for the evaluation.
(for those interested in this upgrade, go to BocaBearings.com  - the cost is about $5 each & free delivery)

Mariusz

Thanks for the heads up. I did email the guy selling the Dynavector this afternoon.  But, within hours, the ad list it to be sold.  Good for him though.  I wasn't going to pay his asking price. 

I will do some research on the SMMC-1.  Hopefully, I won't be too slow to pull the trigger this time around.

BTW, what's the difference between medium and high compliance carts?