[TheChairGuy]

viggen / Ed,

Tho you are not a newbie, there are some helpful topics in this sticky (including, on p.1, a discussion about compliance)

Regards, John

[viggen]

viggen / Ed,

Tho you are not a newbie, there are some helpful topics in this sticky (including, on p.1, a discussion about compliance)

Regards, John

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65302.msg597843#msg597843

Got it.  Will continue to explore.

[viggen]

Another sorta newb question, when a cart is made available in two versions either high or low output, is their trade offs going one way or the other in terms of sound quality?  Or, is this just a matter of phono pre matching?  Certain brands like Dynavector have higher output MC that can be used with MM phono amp.  But, there seems to be a .  How about a ZYX which has either .24mv or HO .48mv?  Obviously, both has to use MC phono amp but is the HO just more compliant?  And, I know more weight and winding goes into a higher output cart which can potentially degrade the sound.  But is this the case with a cart that is merely bumping output from .24 to .48 mv?  Although it is 100% increase in output, but it's still only .24mv...

[galyons]

Another sorta newb question, when a cart is made available in two versions either high or low output, is their trade offs going one way or the other in terms of sound quality?  Or, is this just a matter of phono pre matching?  Certain brands have higher output MC that can be used with MM phono amp.  How about a ZYX which has either .24mv or HO .48mv?  Obviously, both has to use MC phono amp but is the HO just more compliant?  Or, is there difference in sound quality?

The historical advantage of MC over MM was lower moving mass of the generating system.  Low mass, less wire, iron & magnet = less electrical output.  Now we have HOMC's. LOMC's, generally, are better at imaging and inner details than their HO brethren because they have lower moving mass.

Cheers,
Geary

[JCC]

Another sorta newb question, when a cart is made available in two versions either high or low output, is their trade offs going one way or the other in terms of sound quality?  Or, is this just a matter of phono pre matching?  Certain brands have higher output MC that can be used with MM phono amp.  How about a ZYX which has either .24mv or HO .48mv?  Obviously, both has to use MC phono amp but is the HO just more compliant?  Or, is there difference in sound quality?

For a moving coil cartridge, lower output generally means fewer winds and less mass. Lower mass provides the potential for better sound. You won't have this problem with the SMMC1 Soundsmith, because it uses moving iron, rather than moving coil technology. The moving iron technology does not require a MC phono amp.

[twitch54]

Or, is this just a matter of phono pre matching?  Certain brands like Dynavector have higher output MC that can be used with MM phono amp. 

Phono-Pre is most definetly a 'gain matching' concern, whereas the lower the cart output the more gain required. Therein lies the potential problem, for if a given phono-pre is not extermely quiet your noise floor will have been raised.

FWIW, both Dynavector and Benz Micro offer low, medium and high output versions on certian cartridges in their lineups.

[toobluvr]

I bought my Dynavector 20X-H used and the seller said he was selling because it was "too warm" for him.  Well. we all know how subjective that is.  I don't find it that way, but I do prefer things on the smooth, warm and musical side.   I guess compared to pure neutrality, it might lean a bit that way, but certainly not so much that it is mushy, veiled, or lacking in dynamics or drive.

Overall, I find it to be well balanced top to bottom. I think it has excellent drive, pace and timing.   Not the last word in layering or dimensionality, but the bass is very nicely rendered.  It does a good job of unravelling complex pasages and allows you to hear the individual threads.  It does this not in an analytical or clinical way, but rather it preserves the organic wholeness of the music and allows it to hang together as a complete picture.  The music is rendered with nice solidity.

All in all, a slightly warm and musical cartridge that is easy to listen to, yet still has enough incisiveness, immediacy, detail and presence to keep ya interested.

I think the Positive Feedback reviewer does a good job in describing its performance, and I agree with his comments:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue3/dynavector.htm

I have not heard all or even most cartridges in this price range.  But I have been pleased with the Dyna and based on my experience I think it is very good value, and probably even over-achieves at its price.

Thank you for your description.  This cart sounds on the warmer side of neutral which can be a good match with the German turntable and phono-pre I will be matching it up with.

Years ago, I briefly heard the original Lehmann Black Cube in my system.  I would definitely be putting "warmish" gear around it.....including the cartridge.

Having said that, I have no idea how the more current versions of the Lehman sound.

[viggen]

Thanks again.  I guess I will stick with lower output unless I go with a moving iron.

Right now I am leaning ZYX Bloom as I can afford a new one and maybe pick up a used 20XL down the road if a cheap one pops up.

[viggen]

Years ago, I briefly heard the original Lehmann Black Cube in my system.  I would definitely be putting "warmish" gear around it.....including the cartridge.

Having said that, I have no idea how the more current versions of the Lehman sound.

Which phono pre were you comparing the Lehmann with?

I hope the reviews I've read of the SE version is accurate in that the added PWX does all the wonder things they describe it to do.  When I upgraded the PSU on my Trichord Dino, its performance really did elevate, more of everything from detail to emotion.  The biggest upgrade was the turntable's motor's transformer.  The increase in spatialness after installing the transformer is unreal.  And, I still don't understand why a transformer on a motor would do so much for a turntable.

[toobluvr]

Back then I think I had two-stand alone phono sections:    Joule and Melos.
And I auditioned others in my system:    Wavelength and Lehman.

Lehman was very pristine, transparent, fast, extended and detailed.
But a bit dry, lean and not enough flesh and musculature.  To my ears sounded more hi-fi'ish and less musical than the others.

Everyone has different tastes and system balances, but I preferred all over the Lehman.  I would wanna use a bloomy, liquid and warm cartridge with it.

[viggen]

I would wanna use a bloomy, liquid and warm cartridge with it.

So you would second the ZYX Bloom?  Sorry, I couldn't resist! 

[viggen]

Just want to update my current situation regarding my new vinyl endeavor.

Will receive Amazon Model 12 later this week.
Will receive Lehmann Black Cube SE middle of this week.
Will receive Moerch DP6 with 2 arm tubes next week.

Thanks to suggestions given in this thread, I think I have narrowed down my cartridges choices down to ZYX Bloom, Dynavector 20XL or Denon 103 Pro.  Emailed Mehran regarding the ZYX.  Hope he can give me a good price.  Denon I can get new one on ebay for $455 free shipping.  And, Dynavector, I will wait for a used one.

I do have a question regarding turntable motor though.  The table I purchased was originally for the German market.  In fact, Model 12 was never exported to North America as far as I know.  The seller has lost the jerry rigged PSU he used with the table.  So, he's supplying me with the German 230v 50hz PSU.  And, I was instructed to use a step up converter.

Is this method safe to use and will it deter from optimal performance?  I did read one thread on Audiogon stating that 50hz turntable motor PSU can't be used with a step up as it doesn't convert the frequency, 50hz to 60hz.  Does it make sense to people here? 

It also makes sense to me that the motor might not spin at the correct RPM if the PSU's frequency is not corrected? 

If the step-up doesn't work, I guess my option would be to go with a new PSU perhaps one supplied with an Amazon Model 2 or 3.  Perhaps an engineer like Paul Hynes can build a new PSU?  The German PSU that comes with the Model 12 is a dinky wall wart.  The Origin Live table I had had a decent transformer/psu which was the size of a small brick.  I upgraded it to one the size of a huge brick and weighs a ton (not literally)!  I woudn't go back to the old PSU.  I am convinced a big PSU on the motor definitely makes a big difference.

[viggen]

I guess last update to this thread.  I purchased a Zyx Bloom this evening. 

Again, thank you everyone for your inputs.

[AudioSoul]

   I have been reading these threads with much interest. Very interesting! When you have all this put together let us know how it sounds. Also, when you receive the TT power supply open it up and check to see if there are tabs to connect the wires for 60Hz 120v operation...........

[BobM]

Just picked up a new/used Dynavector XX1 high output cartridge. It's about 8-10 years old now, but was little used (very little - sitting in a drawer mostly - good deal for me). I'm breaking it in now before I optomize its setup (VTA and such). Yes, it was more than your price limit when new, but not when bought used.

This replaces my 20X-H on my DP6. It weighs 12g though, so I'm using a lot of weight on the back of my red dot arm. Still falls OK within the resonance boundary limits overall.

It may be some time before I have a handle on the plus/minus of one over the other though.

Enjoy,
Bob

[viggen]

I have been reading these threads with much interest. Very interesting! When you have all this put together let us know how it sounds. Also, when you receive the TT power supply open it up and check to see if there are tabs to connect the wires for 60Hz 120v operation...........

Hello, I have put my table together minus one thing.  The guy I bought the DP6 from forgot to ship me the arm bushing.  So, I hope to get it this friday. 

When I finally received my table last week, the motor wasn't working.  Good thing I work at a place where there are a lot of technicians.  One of them spotted the problem right away.  I just had to replace a DPDT switch which was jammed probably during shipping.  A tech replaced it for me, and the motor is now spinning.  I got the speed adjusted accordingly with a free strobe from enjoythemusic.com.  So, I really have no issue regarding motor speed.  Apparently, the difference in current frequency only affects AC motors.  Fortunately, I have a DC motor.  So, all I needed is a step-up converter to go in between the wall wart and the wall receptacle.  I plan to have Peter at Audio Sector build me a better PSU though.  I haven't contacted him yet.  After I get my table working, I will make further assessments.  I don't like the idea of having to use a step-up though.  And, I am under the impression that a better transformer in the PSU will benefit a DC motor.  It certainly did with spades when I upgraded the transformer to my Origin Live turntable motor.

So, stay tuned...

[viggen]

Just picked up a new/used Dynavector XX1 high output cartridge..

Enjoy,
Bob

That is a very heavy cart.  Dynavector is on my short list.  I sort of want to stay with lower output carts if I could though unless I go with a moving iron like Soundsmith.

Regarding the DP6, have you experimented on whether the number of weights you have on the arm have an affected on the sound?  The instruction says to have as many weights on the arm as possible.  I can't imagine why that would make a difference.  Currently, one large weight is enough to balance the ZYX Bloom.  I think I have the weight about 3-4 cms from the post.  After I get my arm up and running, I will move the large weight closer to the post and add the smaller weights on to the arm and see if I hear a difference.

[Mariusz]

Sorry Viggen, I kind of snatched that SMMC-1 from under your nose.
I'll use it with UP4 this weekend.

BobM
remember when we talked about difference in belt material and its effect .....? - I have had try few things but speed box is a necessity.
Since I have one waiting for me at the Post office I'll let you know what I found via PM.

As to your new cart - congratulation and interesting to hear your findings. Denon was not optimal with UP4 but satisfactory.
 I plan on sending it for liposuction and retiping to SoundSmith this year and give it another try.

Best
Mariusz

[BobM]

As to the weights, it's always been my understanding that you want to keep the biggest weight possible as close to the pivot point as possible. Then you can use a smaller weight or two elsewhere as your "adjustors". I haven't experimented with this, I just trusted the instructions since it makes sense. Big mass closer to the pivot point makes it easier for the arm to swing with the record. Easier to move than if the weight was at the end of the extension.

I do have one question that was never clear to me. The Moerch weights can be tilted to one side or the other, and they recommend doing this rather than hanging them straight down. But I never understood which way was the correct way to pivot the weight.

I have mine pivoted toward the platter. Is that correct or should it be pivoted away from the platter?

Mariusz - Congrats on buying the Musica Bella. I'm sure the new changes have made a nice improvement over the tour version. I'd like to hear it again one of these days. Let me know how you like the speed controller and which string choice you wind up with. I hear "surgical silk" is the ultimate, but it's hard to get and expensive unless you have a medical connection,

Bob

[Mariusz]

Bob
-You're right about the weights setup. Biggest puck the closest to the pivot point then the rest of the gang..... accordingly (if needed).

-The weights can be tilted to either side and it helps to setup the stylus so it is as close to perpendicular transversal as possible. IMO

-I pick up few samples of different threads and nylon varieties at *Michael art & craft* store.  To soon to have a definite opinion.
- "surgical silk" ???? ...... I'll ask. If I get it , I'll save some for you.

-Bella will go back to Bill for facelift next week.
At least some of the issues should be resolved with mods to PS. We will see.

- You're more then welcome to hear it when I will get it back.
  I am not sure if i am going to have my SD speakers as well but Omega Super 8 for sure.

Best

Mariusz