What gauge wire are your speaker cables?

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mark funk

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #80 on: 12 Feb 2009, 10:30 pm »
I use some of that 10 ga. from BJC, that is the only time I heard a difference in any cable is when I went from some of that ultra fine braided cable to the Belden 10 ga.. I guess over a 20 foot run the 10 ga. has a little less capacitance.  :smoke:

TomW16

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #81 on: 13 Feb 2009, 12:18 am »
I use some of that 10 ga. from BJC, that is the only time I heard a difference in any cable is when I went from some of that ultra fine braided cable to the Belden 10 ga.. I guess over a 20 foot run the 10 ga. has a little less capacitance.  :smoke:

I believe that for speaker cable, resistance is the critical parameter.  But 10 AWG will have less resistance than a higher gauge wire and it is what I used to wire my speakers with.

Cheers,
Tom

avahifi

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Three observations
« Reply #82 on: 13 Feb 2009, 03:25 pm »
1.  Jim Winey, the inventor of the Magneplaner, advised me years ago about the "three note" theory.  Namely that if you are starting to evaluate something new and different, if you don't hear it in the first three notes, it is not there.  I consider this to be great advice.

2.  Regarding the MIT cable comparison.  First of all the Salk and Van Alstine crew already had three days of listening to the equipment (and our cables, such as they are) in that environment and had a pretty good idea as to what things were sounding like there.  Second, the MIT guys, who initiated the conversation, certainly should have had a good idea of the "audible clues" that they expected their cables to show up.

3.  I suggest that a very simple speaker wire test would be as follows:  Connect the cables to your pet amplifier and to a standard 8 ohm load bank.  Feed 10 KHz square waves in at a reasonable level - maybe 5V peak out as to not kill your amplifier.  Hook up one scope probe at the amp output, the other at the load bank.  Look for any differences in the wave form at each end.  There is a name for differences between input and output, its called "distortion".  If you have the opportunity to try various cables, and or various amplifiers, you are going to see some very interesting various results.  :)  If your pet cable when connected to your pet amplifier exhibits a significant difference in the results at each end of the cable, then please explain rationally how this makes things sound better.  Assuming of course that all other things being equal, lower distortion is better.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

P.S.  I would suggest that distributed capacitance is by far the most important factor in speaker cable values (the lower the better).  Note that a very high capacitance cable, connected to a load sensitive amplifier, can actually cause the amp to go into full bore oscillations and self destruct.  Even a 24 gauge speaker wire won't do this much harm.

Minn Mark

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #83 on: 13 Feb 2009, 03:49 pm »
Many years-old Monster cable (12 ga, I think ?) , 8 ft single runs with bananas on the amp end (Insight 440H), and pins at the speakers (supplied jumpers still in place on the Maggies ).  The cables lie directly on the vinyl tile-covered concrete floor, extra length serpent-style.  Have been meaning to replace them more for cosmetic reasons as they are looking pretty grundgy.

Regards (and don't hold it against me ! )

Mark

Quiet Earth

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Re: Three observations
« Reply #84 on: 13 Feb 2009, 05:51 pm »
1.  Jim Winey, the inventor of the Magneplaner, advised me years ago about the "three note" theory.  Namely that if you are starting to evaluate something new and different, if you don't hear it in the first three notes, it is not there.  I consider this to be great advice.

***********************************************************************************

3.  I suggest that a very simple speaker wire test would be as follows:  Connect the cables to your pet amplifier and to a standard 8 ohm load bank.  Feed 10 KHz square waves in at a reasonable level - maybe 5V peak out as to not kill your amplifier.  Hook up one scope probe at the amp output, the other at the load bank.  Look for any differences in the wave form at each end.  There is a name for differences between input and output, its called "distortion".  If you have the opportunity to try various cables, and or various amplifiers, you are going to see some very interesting various results.  :)  If your pet cable when connected to your pet amplifier exhibits a significant difference in the results at each end of the cable, then please explain rationally how this makes things sound better.  Assuming of course that all other things being equal, lower distortion is better.



I think these two suggestions contradict each other. I like suggestion #1. It is more in line with my experience with solid core cable and some other things that have improved my audio journey over the years.

avahifi

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #85 on: 13 Feb 2009, 06:13 pm »
How do these observations contradict?  I did not say in #1 that the difference you hear was necessarily going to be a "better" difference.

Is your dislike of #3 because it might present facts that disagree with opinions? :)  Note that if it tests good but sounds bad, all this means is we don't have a good enough handle on how to test yet.  If it tests bad, it is bad.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Quiet Earth

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #86 on: 13 Feb 2009, 06:22 pm »
Well, the way I read it is,,,,,, one suggestion says to listen for the obvious and the other says to test and measure. Test and measurement is fine but it may or may not explain what you are hearing because
1. It's hard to correlate what you measure with what you hear
2. You can test and measure things that may not have anything to do with what matters
3. I know how to fool the test equipment to get the results that look good to me. (I'm not saying that you would do that, just that it's possible for someone else to mess up)

The first suggestion is a good one for most people because it is the one that really matters.

BTW, my apologies for jumping into the AVA forum without invitation. How the heck did I even get here anyway????? I just saw the topic on the front page and got sucked in. I'll try to pay more attention in the future.

Permission to come aboard?  :)

martyo

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #87 on: 13 Feb 2009, 06:31 pm »
Quote
Permission to come aboard? 

Get your A** in here.  :lol:

Welcome "Quiet".  :thumb:

Now you're in for it.  :D 8)

oneinthepipe

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #88 on: 13 Feb 2009, 06:51 pm »
My ignorance about this is obvious, and an admission of my ignorance is unwarranted.  Nonetheless, is the level of distortion the primary or sole measurement related to the quality of a wire.  What about the "volume" or "amount" of the signal leaving the amplifier compared to the "volume" or "amount" of the signal entering the speakers?  Would a loss of the "volume" or the "amount" of the signal from the amplifier to the speakers, if any, be related to the speaker wire's resistance?

I only ask this because when I think about the subjective comparisons about speaker wire, the comments usually contain the commonly-used descriptors such as fullness, depth, extension, etc.  I know that these words are common in both audio vernacular and audio marketing, but comparisons about speaker wire seem to include descriptions related to "quantity" of sound in addition to "quality" of sound.  I am not saying that more is better, since more distorted bass or more boomy bass isn't better bass.  I am merely asking if certain wires transfer more of the signal?  Are certain wires better conductors?  Are some copper wires better conductors than other copper wires?  Does it matter?
« Last Edit: 13 Feb 2009, 08:06 pm by oneinthepipe »

geezer

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #89 on: 13 Feb 2009, 06:56 pm »
Well, the way I read it is,,,,,, one suggestion says to listen for the obvious and the other says to test and measure. Test and measurement is fine but it may or may not explain what you are hearing because
1. It's hard to correlate what you measure with what you hear
2. You can test and measure things that may not have anything to do with what matters
3. I know how to fool the test equipment to get the results that look good to me. (I'm not saying that you would do that, just that it's possible for someone else to mess up)

The first suggestion is a good one for most people because it is the one that really matters.

BTW, my apologies for jumping into the AVA forum without invitation. How the heck did I even get here anyway????? I just saw the topic on the front page and got sucked in. I'll try to pay more attention in the future.

Permission to come aboard?  :)

Frank's #1 and #3 suggestions are certainly not contradictory; they're complementary.

If a well-shaped square wave is input, the shape of the output tells you something no matter what sort of circuit element is under test. For example if the output wave exhibits "ringing", meaning a spike at the sharp corners followed by damped oscillations, that suggests certain possible sources of the problem. On the other hand if the output wave is rounded at the corners, that suggests different problems.

This kind of probing is useful in diagnostics to those who are electronically "literate".

(Edited)

Quiet Earth

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #90 on: 13 Feb 2009, 07:01 pm »


Just wondering what gauge your running with your AVA amp?

Wayner


See what you started Wayner  :nono:

Shame on you . . . . . . .  :wink:

I hope you guys can get this all sorted before the 3 day weekend.  :green:

Wayner

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #91 on: 13 Feb 2009, 07:55 pm »
What 3 day weekend?

charmerci

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #92 on: 13 Feb 2009, 08:33 pm »


Just wondering what gauge your running with your AVA amp?

Wayner


See what you started Wayner  :nono:

Shame on you . . . . . . .  :wink:



Oh, he knew what the 7734 he was doing!  aa

Wayner

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #93 on: 13 Feb 2009, 09:08 pm »
Here are some specifications on the Belden 5000EU speaker cable. Notice the rather low capacitance.

Capacatance per foot = 24pf.

DCR @ 20 degrees centigrade per 1000 feet = 1.6 ohms

Inductance = .15 uh/foot.

Wayner


timjthomas

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #94 on: 13 Feb 2009, 09:41 pm »
Keeping it simple and going with 16 gauge GE speaker wire.

mark funk

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #95 on: 13 Feb 2009, 09:55 pm »
You know what really makes my set sound real good is when I use some of that old rope cable I have left :o :smoke:

Wayner

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #96 on: 13 Feb 2009, 10:00 pm »
I wish Budwiser would come out with a cable that would make me feel good.   :beer:

 aa

timjthomas

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #97 on: 13 Feb 2009, 10:03 pm »
I wish Budwiser would come out with a cable that would make me feel good.   :beer:

 aa

Hmm. . . Guiness Speaker Cable!!!  I'd believe in that.  :drool:

gjs_cds

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #98 on: 14 Feb 2009, 10:01 pm »
100 feet of OFC wire for $23 bucks?  Hard to beat that...  (I might pick some up for my surrounds that I've yet to install in the home-theater, 3 years post-move-in.  Guess that indicates my values re: stereo hi-fi and multi-channel...)

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2789&seq=1&format=2

bregez

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #99 on: 29 May 2009, 09:10 pm »
I am not trying to poke a sleeping bear here!!!!  :lol:
But I did find this Roger Russell website related to speaker wire interesting.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

I know it has been posted elsewhere in AC but thought it contained some valuable information pertaining to this topic.  Mainly recommended maximum lengths for different gauge sizes.