[avahifi]

I am gone just two weeks on vacation and here a huge thread on speaker wire shows up at our circle.  Shame on all of you! 

I will repeat my long term advice regarding speaker wire and interconnect cables:

If you paid more for speaker wire and interconnects than you would have at Radio Shack, you screwed yourself.

End of topic.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[Quiet Earth]

"But if you have everything else, then why not?"

http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_basics/1990-02_wire_challenge.htm

[Charles Calkins]

I am gone just two weeks on vacation and here a huge thread on speaker wire shows up at our circle.  Shame on all of you! 

I will repeat my long term advice regarding speaker wire and interconnect cables:

If you paid more for speaker wire and interconnects than you would have at Radio Shack, you screwed yourself.

End of topic.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

  Yo Frank!!! Right on there my good man!!!

            Cheers
            Charlie

[bregez]

I am gone just two weeks on vacation and here a huge thread on speaker wire shows up at our circle.  Shame on all of you! 

Sorry Frank, I am responsible for this one.  Things were super quiet around here so I went reading some old posts and found that link which pertained to this particular post.  Welcome back, we missed you.

Brad

[hotroady]

****************************
I had a similar positive experience :

Mapleshade. Looks to be about 20 gauge, silver coated copper. Lively, clean and clear, with bass punch and power like mad.
This wire absolutely breaks the mold for requiring heavy gauge speaker wire to move this kind of current quickly. Maybe its the silver coating.

I doubt that it is the silver coating that's making you so happy, although that could be part of the reason. Speaking of Reason,,,,,   I am using DNM Reson speaker cable and feeling the same way that you are about your Mapleshade wire. The DNM cable is not silver plated, just solid core copper. I love it! It seems like with solid core wire, the definition of instruments is much better than with stranded cable. Notes are better defined, the music seems more like music and less like sound. I know, I know,,,,,,,,,, laugh and shred  , but I have no agenda to advance here, it's only my opinion from trying it. I make no claim to understand the science behind it either.

Now I understand why people get excited about magnet wire because it appears to be the ultimate solid core wire in that it has nearly zero dielectric material insulating it from the outside world. Of course it has it's own set of issues like how many/what size wires to use per leg, and how to space them apart for consistency. (This topic is way over my head. Again, I just try things and listen.)

This thread is supposed to be about guage so guage it is. Since I don't like traditional stranded wire anymore, I vote for either a single solid core wire of aprox. 18 to 20 guage, or a concoction of smaller varnished solid core cables achieving a similar total guage (a la the audio note cables).

Laugh and shred, but try before you cry.

   I agree with you for the most part. Seems 16ga solid core to about 8-10ft is most cited as ideal  for single runs(2 per speaker) want to try enamel/varnish/ magnet wire. There could be an advantage in smaller ga, multi solid core...but a lot of work to find out. Can get into different ga to tweets and woofs, maybe heavy stranded for woofs when biwired. I made some "industrial strength" 14 ga. twisted solid core tweet wires combined w twisted 8 ga. welding wire for DJ work. More geared toward getting all the jiuce out of vintage tube amps to play Klipshes very loudly and clear. 15+ft runs.

[hotroady]

I am gone just two weeks on vacation and here a huge thread on speaker wire shows up at our circle.  Shame on all of you! 

I will repeat my long term advice regarding speaker wire and interconnect cables:

If you paid more for speaker wire and interconnects than you would have at Radio Shack, you screwed yourself.

End of topic.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

     Still your opinion, and every one has a right to there own opinion. I certainly don't regard your opinion as the gospel on the subject, what are you going to do? Shutdown a thread, because you don't like idea of someone talking about speaker wire? C'mon Frank, you act as though we should have sought your permission, first. Fact is a lot of people have posted. Seems easy enough to borrow someone else's and make your own at home comparison, and let your OWN ears decide.

[avahifi]

Just take undocumented and non double blind wire and cable tests elsewhere please.

I don't need purple prose waxing eloquent about sugar pills at this circle.  The are way too many other venues for that kind of nonsense.

It is so easy to do double blind cable and speaker wire tests, and the results always are the same.  Why oh why are the snake oil wagons still bouncing along the trails?  They need not stop here.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[turkey]

Seems easy enough to borrow someone else's and make your own at home comparison, and let your OWN ears decide.

Been there, done that. Most normal speaker wires and RCA patch cords as used in a home stereo system do not display any audible differences when auditioned in a controlled test environment.

It _is_ possible to build a cable that is so out of spec as to produce audible differences when compared with a normal cable. Indeed, some "audiophile" cables are constructed in just such a manner.

However, out of spec cables never produce beneficial effects. I suppose some people just like to worsen the perfomance of their stereo systems, so the vendors sell all kinds of odd products.

[TomW16]

I'll try and introduce a little science to the mysterious world of cables; it might be beneficial in some systems to introduce high frequency roll off to keep out of band garbage from being passed along.

Discuss 

[turkey]

I'll try and introduce a little science to the mysterious world of cables; it might be beneficial in some systems to introduce high frequency roll off to keep out of band garbage from being passed along.

Discuss 

If we're talking about RCA patch cords -  good ones are shielded, so out of band HF garbage isn't added by the cable.

If one of your components is putting out HF garbage, you're probably better off replacing or repairing it than using a high capacitance wire as a band aid.

Now if you really want a rolloff, why not just add a few cents worth of caps and adjust the capacitance that way? It will be almost certainly less expensive and more predictable to do it this way than to fiddle around with the wire itself.

[chosenhandle]

It _is_ possible to build a cable that is so out of spec as to produce audible differences when compared with a normal cable. Indeed, some "audiophile" cables are constructed in just such a manner.

any chance you can provide an example of this? I have not heard of a company purposely building out-of-spec cable. I am not very experienced with cables and such and would like to learn more.

[turkey]

It _is_ possible to build a cable that is so out of spec as to produce audible differences when compared with a normal cable. Indeed, some "audiophile" cables are constructed in just such a manner.

any chance you can provide an example of this? I have not heard of a company purposely building out-of-spec cable. I am not very experienced with cables and such and would like to learn more.

Any company that makes unshielded RCA patch cords is making stuff that is out of spec. Or if they attempt to employ an unshielded twisted pair for an RCA-RCA connection, since those are unbalanced and a twisted pair only works for a balanced connection running into a differential front end.

There are also some rather unusual cable construction techniques that produce cables with RLC values quite different than what is normal. I saw some RCA patch cords for sale a couple of months ago that claimed 720 pf per foot capacitance.

I would imagine that any wire you see for sale in the Mapleshade catalog is abnormal.

With some of these you will actually hear a difference, but I would suggest that it is not a good thing.

Plain zip cord for short runs of speaker wire is fine, and you can get it inexpensively at any number of places, including Home Depot.

The RCA patch cords that come with most DVD players and other mass-market equipment also works just fine. You can get the equivalent patch cords from Parts Express for under $2 ea.

If you really want to get the best quality RCA patch cords around, try the ones from Blue Jeans Cable. Their quality and construction are top-notch. They really are Pro quality, in the best sense of the word. They won't sound any different, but they're actually very nice and will give pride of ownership. They use very good connectors too, so they will maintain good contact over a long period of time.

If you are running cables through conduits or your walls, or if you have really long runs or something unusual, then you may want to go with more specialized wiring. But it isn't likely you will be shopping at the cable boutique to find solutions.

If you really want to learn more about wire, check out the Blue Jeans site. Then try some of the info at audioholics.com. http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/

Rod Elliott is a good source for info too. http://sound.westhost.com/articles.htm

Frank's old newletter Audio Basics also has some good info. http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_basics/index.htm

[TomW16]

I'll try and introduce a little science to the mysterious world of cables; it might be beneficial in some systems to introduce high frequency roll off to keep out of band garbage from being passed along.

Discuss 

If we're talking about RCA patch cords -  good ones are shielded, so out of band HF garbage isn't added by the cable.

If one of your components is putting out HF garbage, you're probably better off replacing or repairing it than using a high capacitance wire as a band aid.

Now if you really want a rolloff, why not just add a few cents worth of caps and adjust the capacitance that way? It will be almost certainly less expensive and more predictable to do it this way than to fiddle around with the wire itself.

I don't disagree with anything you said.  I am using a Felix to weed out the HF stuff from the AC line.

Cheers,
Tom

[turkey]

I'll try and introduce a little science to the mysterious world of cables; it might be beneficial in some systems to introduce high frequency roll off to keep out of band garbage from being passed along.

Discuss 

If we're talking about RCA patch cords -  good ones are shielded, so out of band HF garbage isn't added by the cable.

If one of your components is putting out HF garbage, you're probably better off replacing or repairing it than using a high capacitance wire as a band aid.

Now if you really want a rolloff, why not just add a few cents worth of caps and adjust the capacitance that way? It will be almost certainly less expensive and more predictable to do it this way than to fiddle around with the wire itself.

I don't disagree with anything you said.  I am using a Felix to weed out the HF stuff from the AC line.

Cheers,
Tom

I'm not sure that's really needed in most cases. It seems to me that most decent audio equipment has a power supply that is effective already.

I use Tripplite power strips with some filtering built in, but I haven't seen that it really makes any audible difference in my environment and with my system. They're just nice power strips with surge suppressors and they were inexpensive. I use them for my computer equipment too.

The Felix is an interesting project though.

[Wayner]

The Bluejeans cable LC-1 boasts a capacitance value of 12.2pf per foot. That may be the lowest number in the industry and they are made by Belden wire, I brand I really trust. I have almost all interconnects in my systems made by Bluesjeans out of this cable. I like the connector, which is in spec, I like the custom lenghts that they will make.

I also like Belden 12awg wire that they offer. It's a little more expensive than lamp cord but of course is a heavier gauge that I want. Although 12 awg boarders on the excessive, I nonetheless like the cable and it will last for ever.

I also like Monoprice.com's interconnets and speaker wire. They are made at an ISO-12001 factory, come in a plain box, shipped by priorty mail and are the best value in the interconnect world. You should see what a 3 dollar  interconnect pair looks like with gold plated turbine RCA jacks and good quality 75 ohm shielded cable.

But that is enough free advertising for them. The moral to the story is that big expensive cables of either ilk and a fool's money are easily parted. That is not what AVA is all about at all. AVA is about the highest quality for the lowest possible dollar and the hopes of a repeat customer. There is no magic, no imagineering, no faith based products (except for the Sonicrock, heh, heh) and such as that. That's my take and I'm sticking to it!

Wayner

[JP78]

The Bluejeans cable LC-1 boasts a capacitance value of 12.2pf per foot. That may be the lowest number in the industry

wayner - i'm not judging any cables or claiming there's a difference, but just wanted to throw out empirical audio cables...they have astoundingly low capacitance (under 3.9pf per foot). whatever one may believe about cables, empirical audio certainly knows how to manufacture very well-measured ones.

[Big Red Machine]

The Bluejeans cable LC-1 boasts a capacitance value of 12.2pf per foot. That may be the lowest number in the industry

wayner - i'm not judging any cables or claiming there's a difference, but just wanted to throw out empirical audio cables...they have astoundingly low capacitance (under 3.9pf per foot). whatever one may believe about cables, empirical audio certainly knows how to manufacture very well-measured ones.

I found this refreshing in that someone has actually performed some tests: 

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/about-empirical-audio/technical-papers/clarity7-electrical-performance

And he's a member here BTW.  So let's be respectful as I know we will.

[turkey]

The Bluejeans cable LC-1 boasts a capacitance value of 12.2pf per foot. That may be the lowest number in the industry

wayner - i'm not judging any cables or claiming there's a difference, but just wanted to throw out empirical audio cables...they have astoundingly low capacitance (under 3.9pf per foot). whatever one may believe about cables, empirical audio certainly knows how to manufacture very well-measured ones.

I found this refreshing in that someone has actually performed some tests: 

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/about-empirical-audio/technical-papers/clarity7-electrical-performance

And he's a member here BTW.  So let's be respectful as I know we will.

Why? He's been outed on other boards where it's permitted to hurt his little feelings.

I don't trust his measurements, don't trust his products, and don't trust him. He's a snake oil salesman. Just look at all the stuff he spews about jitter.

I just looked at his web site and he's charging $620 for a 1 meter set of RCA patch cords. So he's a crook too.

[Big Red Machine]

I've just checked you off my Christmas Card mailing list.

[turkey]

I've just checked you off my Christmas Card mailing list.

Sorry I hurt your feelings.

I'm puzzled as to why my comments about a vendor would hurt your feelings though.