What gauge wire are your speaker cables?

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turkey

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #120 on: 18 Jun 2009, 01:11 pm »

I found this refreshing in that someone has actually performed some tests: 

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/about-empirical-audio/technical-papers/clarity7-electrical-performance

I just read about his "tests."

"If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull shit."


hotroady

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #121 on: 18 Jun 2009, 01:33 pm »
I agree on what they say about interconnects, I would never pay those prices. My thing is to apply most of aspects in DIY versions. I don't go overboard with this stuff, just experimenting so far. Who knows, maybe I'll come up with something I like. You know..spark plugs have been around quite a while. There are 3 theories as to how the spark ignites the mixture, they all seem to work. Nobody knows which is the correct theory. Pick your favorite theory and play it out. No body knows everything about electricity.

turkey

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #122 on: 18 Jun 2009, 02:22 pm »
I agree on what they say about interconnects, I would never pay those prices. My thing is to apply most of aspects in DIY versions. I don't go overboard with this stuff, just experimenting so far. Who knows, maybe I'll come up with something I like. You know..spark plugs have been around quite a while. There are 3 theories as to how the spark ignites the mixture, they all seem to work. Nobody knows which is the correct theory. Pick your favorite theory and play it out. No body knows everything about electricity.

What 3 theories about how flames are ignited? I don't think I've ever heard of them.

We know enough about electricity to determine when a wire is suitable for use in a stereo system. There's no magic involved and no mystery either.

Feel free to make up DIY wire. I guess it could be enjoyable to do that. However, you're not going to get audible differences unless you choose something really bizarre, and then those audible differences are not going to be beneficial.

I would also point out that soldered connections for an RCA patch cable are not as good as the gas-tight crimped connections that Blue Jeans and some others use.

Even the inexpensive generic patch cords normally use crimped connections.



hotroady

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #123 on: 18 Jun 2009, 02:43 pm »


What 3 theories about how flames are ignited? I don't think I've ever heard of them.

Thermal, ping pong, metal fragmentation.

martyo

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #124 on: 18 Jun 2009, 03:41 pm »
I've just checked you off my Christmas Card mailing list. :(

You're still on mine Pete, and you're still one of the classiest guys on the Circle.  8)

turkey

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #125 on: 18 Jun 2009, 04:23 pm »

Thermal, ping pong, metal fragmentation.


Ok, I see a book that discusses this.

Possibly all three are involved. Analyzing their exact contribution to a given ignition system is probably difficult given the conditions of the reactions taking place, but it's a solvable problem.

I'd want more detailed info first. The book I found seemed to have been written by some at Champion, and could contain lots of marketing info that isn't really truthful.

I would also say that this really has nothing to do with the audibility of different wires in home stereo systems. Nor does it indicate that the audibility (or inaudibility) of different wires is somehow unknown or unknowable.

Wire is a solved problem. The slight inaudible differences that cable vendors magnify into supposed large differences by marketing are simply not worth worrying about.

There are plenty of real problems to worry about in our search for better reproduction of music. Let's not get lost in the trees and therefore not see the forest.

The recordings you choose to buy and your speakers and listening room are what makes the big difference between good sound and bad.

Too many audiophiles obsess over tiny little differences and then just ignore the huge problems staring them in the face. It just makes one shake his head and shrug his shoulders.


avahifi

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #126 on: 18 Jun 2009, 04:24 pm »
My problem with the Clarity wire tests is that they did not seem to notice that the "square wave" output of the amplifier they used showed severe slew rate limiting itself.  That "straight line" leading edge with a bit of overshoot is the picture of a bad amplifier in hard saturation or cutoff.  Given that crummy level of performance, it is likely that no brand of wire afterward would help much, although both the Clarity wire and the zip cord did roll off the response at 100KHz or thereabouts.  The amp behavior may have affected the out of band very high frequency ringing shown on some of the other tests published too. Although I am not smart enough to do the math, I do wonder what the results would have been if modeled for a more rational output impedance (maybe 0.1 ohm or thereabouts) and an 8 ohm load).

Oh well.

Frank Van Alstine

turkey

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #127 on: 18 Jun 2009, 06:50 pm »
My problem with the Clarity wire tests is that they did not seem to notice that the "square

Maybe he will stop by for some abuse.... uh, I mean to clarify matters a bit. :)

There is a very amusing thread at http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/11678/0/0/0/




Kevin Haskins

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #128 on: 18 Jun 2009, 07:01 pm »
I use 4/0 welding cable.   The copper is inexpensive cheap recycled stuff but I make up for the lack of quality with quantity.   I figure there is a LOT more copper in a 4/0 welding cable made from recycled material than there is copper in the 99.9999% pure 12AWG speaker cable.

Also... when I need to do some general shop welding I just pull my leads off my speakers and they do double duty.    I can easily burn some 1/8"  7018 rod when I need to put down a fillet or two.


turkey

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #129 on: 18 Jun 2009, 07:41 pm »
I use 4/0 welding cable.   The copper is inexpensive cheap recycled stuff but I make up for the lack of quality with quantity.   I figure there is a LOT more copper in a 4/0 welding cable made from recycled material than there is copper in the 99.9999% pure 12AWG speaker cable.

Also... when I need to do some general shop welding I just pull my leads off my speakers and they do double duty.    I can easily burn some 1/8"  7018 rod when I need to put down a fillet or two.

I tried this, but there was residual noise left in the welding cable from when I used it for welding. It made my stereo sound really funny.

I'm thinking the noise must have been left in the impure part of the copper, because I never heard this much noise with my 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999 99% pure copper Herman Munster cables.

Hold on, it wasn't residual noise. It's just the phone ringing. Be right back.

turkey

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #130 on: 18 Jun 2009, 07:47 pm »
I wonder if I can get speaker wire made of 88.8% pure copper?

The number 8 is considered to be the number for good fortune by the Chinese, so surely 88.8% pure copper would sound the best.

Hey, it's no wackier than some of what I've read on cable vendor's web sites!

Or maybe I could make speaker wire out of red licorice whips. Sometimes I feel like a snack while I'm listening.



hotroady

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #131 on: 18 Jun 2009, 08:20 pm »
there is no such thing as red licorice, that's vendor hype! :duh:

avahifi

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #132 on: 18 Jun 2009, 08:29 pm »
Do we take a vote soon regarding trashing this topic?

By the way, we have a name "Ultravalve" suggested by Dave Boyce.  He wins something, I don't remember what now.

Regards,

Frank

turkey

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #133 on: 18 Jun 2009, 08:36 pm »
there is no such thing as red licorice, that's vendor hype! :duh:

I think most of the stuff they sell as licorice is actually anise-flavored anyway.

How about if I use licorice and also use those red candies often confused with licorice?

That way I have red for positive and black for negative. Then I won't get the polarity mixed up.




turkey

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #134 on: 18 Jun 2009, 08:46 pm »

By the way, we have a name "Ultravalve" suggested by Dave Boyce.  He wins something, I don't remember what now.

I don't think you ever announced what the prize would be.





hotroady

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #135 on: 18 Jun 2009, 09:06 pm »
Do we take a vote soon regarding trashing this topic?

By the way, we have a name "Ultravalve" suggested by Dave Boyce.  He wins something, I don't remember what now.

Regards,

Frank
                                                                                                             In some regards that won 't work out too well. The problem naming something Ultimate, in the first place, suggests it really wasn't the ultimate, when an updated version comes out. Hollywood uses sequals Rocky I, RockyII, etc. It suggests continuation of the same story, minimizes potential product confusion.

Wayner

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #136 on: 18 Jun 2009, 09:49 pm »
Names are all relative to time and the state of the art. At the time when the "Ultimate" series came out, that was pretty much the end of the line for developement. Then the folks that made devices, made them faster and better and low and behold, a new opertunity.

There was a time when Chrysler had Richardo Montobon(spelling?) anounce the new Chrysler with rich Corinthian leather. Apparently, they thought that was the cat's meow. (sorry Oliver). The fact is there never is an end to the story.

Wayner :)

skrivis

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #137 on: 18 Jun 2009, 09:52 pm »
Do we take a vote soon regarding trashing this topic?

By the way, we have a name "Ultravalve" suggested by Dave Boyce.  He wins something, I don't remember what now.

Regards,

Frank
                                                                                                             In some regards that won 't work out too well. The problem naming something Ultimate, in the first place, suggests it really wasn't the ultimate, when an updated version comes out. Hollywood uses sequals Rocky I, RockyII, etc. It suggests continuation of the same story, minimizes potential product confusion.

I suppose you could say it was the Ultimate that could be done using a Dyna ST-70 as a base.

So now we have the UltraValve and that ties in with the Ultra series.

It makes as much sense as any other product name.

I keep thinking of UltraBrite toothpaste though. :)


skrivis

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Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #138 on: 18 Jun 2009, 09:54 pm »
Names are all relative to time and the state of the art. At the time when the "Ultimate" series came out, that was pretty much the end of the line for developement. Then the folks that made devices, made them faster and better and low and behold, a new opertunity.

Hmmm.... so the UltraValve uses faster tubes than the Ultimate did?


Wayner

Re: What gauge wire are your speaker cables?
« Reply #139 on: 18 Jun 2009, 10:02 pm »
I was talking about the names of products and their linkage to time. The tubes are the same, the application, unique.

Wayner