[avahifi]

Here is the link to the MIT cable comparision.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[Wayner]

Anyone know anything about this 12 ga. wire with bannana plugs for less than $20?  http://www.impactacoustics.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=3102&sku=29176
Appears to be recommended by Audioholics.  I think I'll order some just to compare with my current speaker cables and see if I notice any difference.  

They look very nice for the price.

Wayner

[Quiet Earth]

****************************
I had a similar positive experience :

Mapleshade. Looks to be about 20 gauge, silver coated copper. Lively, clean and clear, with bass punch and power like mad.
This wire absolutely breaks the mold for requiring heavy gauge speaker wire to move this kind of current quickly. Maybe its the silver coating.

I doubt that it is the silver coating that's making you so happy, although that could be part of the reason. Speaking of Reason,,,,,   I am using DNM Reson speaker cable and feeling the same way that you are about your Mapleshade wire. The DNM cable is not silver plated, just solid core copper. I love it! It seems like with solid core wire, the definition of instruments is much better than with stranded cable. Notes are better defined, the music seems more like music and less like sound. I know, I know,,,,,,,,,, laugh and shred  , but I have no agenda to advance here, it's only my opinion from trying it. I make no claim to understand the science behind it either.

Now I understand why people get excited about magnet wire because it appears to be the ultimate solid core wire in that it has nearly zero dielectric material insulating it from the outside world. Of course it has it's own set of issues like how many/what size wires to use per leg, and how to space them apart for consistency. (This topic is way over my head. Again, I just try things and listen.)

This thread is supposed to be about guage so guage it is. Since I don't like traditional stranded wire anymore, I vote for either a single solid core wire of aprox. 18 to 20 guage, or a concoction of smaller varnished solid core cables achieving a similar total guage (a la the audio note cables).

Laugh and shred, but try before you cry.

[gjs_cds]

Here is the link to the MIT cable comparision.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789

Hey Frank--any news on the power-cable front?  (Re: the offer to send you one for eval?)

[budyog]

Oh Oh, I sense this thread is slowly taking THE turn! 

[jrtrent]

Hey Frank--any news on the power-cable front?  (Re: the offer to send you one for eval?)

With apologies for stepping in, here's a link:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64137.20

[gjs_cds]

Hey Frank--any news on the power-cable front?  (Re: the offer to send you one for eval?)

With apologies for stepping in, here's a link:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64137.20

Thanks--great thread, and great review, Frank.  I'd also like to give out props to the power cord manufacturer for allowing his product to be tested.  (As many, if not most will not.)

[Wayner]

There is some slight merit to single solid wire, but I don't think the minimal insulation is the reason. Most cables, speaker or interconnect, are usually made of very small strands of copper wire in some kind of a wrap configuration and then covered with some kind of insulation, like cross-link polyethylene. Some theories I have read on this topic deal with time alignment. What is perceived to happen with all of those very small wire strands is that, because of impurity within the copper, they all start to resist the signal differently, due to the variations of impurity causing differences in resistance and then thusly capacitance. Now imagine if you have 31 strands in your speaker wire and within each strand, the signal is delayed, or altered, ever so minutely from the other 30, that now you have 31 different arrival times or altered signal at the speaker terminal. The effect is blur. That is some of the "theory" I heard. We are talking about such small, incredibly tiny amounts (as most wire now is very pure) that the notion only slightly interests me.

Wayner

[Airborn]

Anyone know anything about this 12 ga. wire with bannana plugs for less than $20?  http://www.impactacoustics.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=3102&sku=29176
Appears to be recommended by Audioholics.  I think I'll order some just to compare with my current speaker cables and see if I notice any difference.  

They look very nice for the price.

Wayner

Yeah, that's what I thought too.  I ordered some and just for kicks will be conducting a Frank-like blind test with some buddies to see if we can perceive any differences from some more expensive cables. aa

[oneinthepipe]

There is some slight merit to single solid wire, but I don't think the minimal insulation is the reason. Most cables, speaker or interconnect, are usually made of very small strands of copper wire in some kind of a wrap configuration and then covered with some kind of insulation, like cross-link polyethylene. Some theories I have read on this topic deal with time alignment. What is perceived to happen with all of those very small wire strands is that, because of impurity within the copper, they all start to resist the signal differently, due to the variations of impurity causing differences in resistance and then thusly capacitance. Now imagine if you have 31 strands in your speaker wire and within each strand, the signal is delayed, or altered, ever so minutely from the other 30, that now you have 31 different arrival times or altered signal at the speaker terminal. The effect is blur. That is some of the "theory" I heard. We are talking about such small, incredibly tiny amounts (as most wire now is very pure) that the notion only slightly interests me.

Wayner

Wayner:

Why not just use Romex, then?  Is the copper in Romex less pure?

[Wayner]

Well, Perhaps the purity is close. I do like my wires to flex and not pull the banana jacks out of the sockets. That is where goofy world starts to set in. Remember, I can slightly appreciate the theory, but in the practicle world, I don't think it matters. It might matter with micro-voltages tho.

What the hell do I know, I'm no scientist! Come to think of it, I'm no "-ist" at all.

Wayner 

[oneinthepipe]

Well, Perhaps the purity is close. I do like my wires to flex and not pull the banana jacks out of the sockets. That is where goofy world starts to set in. Remember, I can slightly appreciate the theory, but in the practicle world, I don't think it matters. It might matter with micro-voltages tho.

What the hell do I know, I'm no scientist! Come to think of it, I'm no "-ist" at all.

Wayner 

The Romex is stiffer than hell, but without the NM casing and the bare ground wire, the wires are more manageable, but they are still very stiff.  I've got a roll of 12/3 in the basement.  Maybe I'll experiment.

[Wayner]

Remember that multi-strand cable is more compliant within the connector as well. It doesn't make much sense to have a heavy gauge wire if your connector can only contact about 10% of it. Just to keep the thinking real.

Wayner

[oneinthepipe]

Remember that multi-strand cable is more compliant within the connector as well. It doesn't make much sense to have a heavy gauge wire if your connector can only contact about 10% of it. Just to keep the thinking real.

Wayner

Good point.  Maybe a crimp-style spade or some other connector that wraps around the solid wire would make sufficient contact.

[turkey]

There is some slight merit to single solid wire, but I don't think the minimal insulation is the reason. Most cables, speaker or interconnect, are usually made of very small strands of copper wire in some kind of a wrap configuration and then covered with some kind of insulation, like cross-link polyethylene. Some theories I have read on this topic deal with time alignment. What is perceived to happen with all of those very small wire strands is that, because of impurity within the copper, they all start to resist the signal differently, due to the variations of impurity causing differences in resistance and then thusly capacitance. Now imagine if you have 31 strands in your speaker wire and within each strand, the signal is delayed, or altered, ever so minutely from the other 30, that now you have 31 different arrival times or altered signal at the speaker terminal. The effect is blur. That is some of the "theory" I heard. We are talking about such small, incredibly tiny amounts (as most wire now is very pure) that the notion only slightly interests me.

Wayner

"Theory?" Sounds to me like somebody was smoking those hemp-covered speaker wires Frank is using.

Single conductors are said to be bad because of skin effect. In reality, skin effect is not relevant at audio frequencies and with the wire lengths used in home stereo systems.

So now somebody is saying that stranded wire is no good because it doesn't act as a single wire - instead it acts as a bunch of single strands. This is also not relevant at audio frequencies in a home stereo system.

[Quiet Earth]

Sometimes I read all of the theories and opinions and I get a better understanding of what's going on. Other times I just get more confused. Eventually, I have to turn the computer off and try it myself.

I'm always learning something new . . . .

[martyo]

Sometimes I read all of the theories and opinions and I get a better understanding of what's going on. Other times I just get more confused. Eventually, I have to turn the computer off and try it myself.

I'm always learning something new . . . . :thumb:quote]
Plenty of theories and opinions, listen for yourself and you can be an "expert" too. 

[weirdo]

Lets be a little kinder to those AVA'ers who experiment with cables. I don't think too many of them end up buying MIT cables. Hi-Fi cables is a modern phenomena brought on by the expansion of the grey zone, which is fueled and maintained by opportunists. This is the same grey zone that includes cosmetics for men, vitamin water, presidential debates that aren't really debates, and Hi-res TV. Nobody has the guts to call Bull**** on this stuff because we are all to some degree, invested in it. 

Lets promote common sense,clear thinking and encourage others to focus on what is important.  This is important in the area of cables, where good money goes for bad every day. Many who might read this are already practicing common sense by using AVA Gear. Some of us are old enough to mermember when Mcintosh gear was the pinnacle and a source upgrade meant a Nakamichi cassette deck. We never considered cables or interconnects because we actually had a more narrow focus that wasn't bombarded by practically useless and ambiguous  information. ( your average Stereophile review).

[orthobiz]

Lets promote common sense,clear thinking and encourage others to focus on what is important. 

Terse, well-written and cogent. You're not a weirdo at all!

Paul

[oneinthepipe]

Lets promote common sense,clear thinking and encourage others to focus on what is important. 

Terse, well-written and cogent. You're not a weirdo at all!

Paul

He could be a well-spoken weirdo.  You never know.