Shuguang Treasure 'Black Bottle' 6CA7Z and Genalex KT-77's

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #80 on:** 3 Apr 2009, 02:38 pm »

Quote from: JakeJ on 19 Mar 2009, 10:17 pm

I have a good feeling about the circle I've proposed, fingers are crossed, response has been very good.

Here's a question for any one that remembers Capt. Kangaroo. What was the retail price of a Mullard EL34 in 1962? What was their advertised life span? Although I'm 52 and remember accompanying my Dad to the local drugstore to test tubes from the old Silvertone TV I was too preoccupied with the Pez and comic book displays to know what a tube sold for.

Thanks,
Jake

I looked in the back of my '63 'The Radio Amateur's Handbook' at the dealer ads. I didn't see anyone listing Mullards but I did find an Amperex ad and imagine the prices between the two would have been comparable. Some 1963 prices of audio tubes are as follows:
6BQ5/EL84 = $1.30
6CA7/EL34 = $2.90
5AR4/GZ34 = $2.10
6V4/EZ80 = $.75
6DJ8/ECC88 = $1.89
6922MIL = $4.75

Bet you wished you'd spent all your allowance on tubes and stashed them away!
12AX7/ECC83 = $1.28

JakeJ · « **Reply #81 on:** 3 Apr 2009, 03:52 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 3 Apr 2009, 02:38 pm

Bet you wished you'd spent all your allowance on tubes and stashed them away!

Boy howdy, do I ever!

Thanks, Ericus Rex!

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #82 on:** 3 Apr 2009, 11:08 pm »

I was surprised to see the mil-spec 6922 was so much more expensive than the other types - almost twice the price of the 6CA7! Must be a great tube!

JakeJ · « **Reply #83 on:** 4 Apr 2009, 04:50 am »

Using "Tom's Inflation Calculator" found here the tubes listed should cost:

6BQ5 = $9.26
6CA7 = $20.67
5AR4 = $14.96
6V4 = $5.34
6DJ8 = $13.11
6922 = $33.85
12AX7 = $9.12

But they cost more for the obvious reason that they are all out of production. If the major tube manufacturers were still in business these price might well be correct although I doubt it as materials, labor, production, and environmental costs would play into it. Wouldn't it be nice for us though?

Cheers,
JakeJ

cryoparts · « **Reply #84 on:** 6 Apr 2009, 05:23 am »

I just got the Shuguang Treasure's out of cryo today, so I will post some impressions on them after a bit of break in time.

Peace,

Lee

iGrant · « **Reply #85 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 07:09 pm »

Quote from: cryoparts on 6 Apr 2009, 05:23 am

I just got the Shuguang Treasure's out of cryo today, so I will post some impressions on them after a bit of break in time.

Peace,

Lee

Cool, or very cold Lee

Anything weird with the internal coating?

Cheers,
Ian

cryoparts · « **Reply #86 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 07:25 pm »

Quote from: iGrant on 14 Apr 2009, 07:09 pm

Quote from: cryoparts on 6 Apr 2009, 05:23 am
I just got the Shuguang Treasure's out of cryo today, so I will post some impressions on them after a bit of break in time.

Peace,

Lee

Cool, or very cold Lee

Anything weird with the internal coating?

Cheers,
Ian

No, they came through great.

Report coming soon, right now I am consumed with getting the taxes done...

Sorry for the delay.

Peace,

Lee

iGrant · « **Reply #87 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 07:37 pm »

Quote from: cryoparts on 14 Apr 2009, 07:25 pm

Quote from: iGrant on 14 Apr 2009, 07:09 pm
Quote from: cryoparts on 6 Apr 2009, 05:23 am
I just got the Shuguang Treasure's out of cryo today, so I will post some impressions on them after a bit of break in time.

Peace,

Lee

Cool, or very cold Lee

Anything weird with the internal coating?

Cheers,
Ian

No, they came through great.

Report coming soon, right now I am consumed with getting the taxes done... Sorry for the delay.

Peace,

Lee

No rush, curiosity type thing.

Looking forward to your cryo listening results, if all is good then will cryo treating the others in the line-up. Any chance of you getting the Amplitrex ?. I know that is a leap for most, would like to do some deep testing on the differences before and after cryo in a logical manner. Hope your having fun

Cheers,
Ian

cryoparts · « **Reply #88 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 07:42 pm »

Quote from: iGrant on 14 Apr 2009, 07:37 pm

No rush, curiosity type thing, enjoythemusic review coming out any day now on them and look what someone had to say on the 300B-Z Treasures, and he hasn't even burnt them in yet. http://grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang_Treasure_300B-Z

Looking forward to your cryo listening results, if all is good then will cryo treating the others in the line-up. Any chance of you getting the Amplitrex ?. I know that is a leap for most, would like to do some deep testing on the differences before and after cryo in a logical manner. Hope your having fun

Fun right now, no. Fun on April 16th, yes!

I would love to get an Amplitrex, I just don't know if I can justify the cost as I don't do that much commercially with tubes. I was thinking about getting one to provide a printout for customers for their tube characteristics after cryo, however, I would have to raise my cryo prices per tube quite a bit to pay for my time and to recoup the cost of the tester. Hmmm.

Peace,

Lee

JakeJ · « **Reply #89 on:** 15 Apr 2009, 03:05 am »

Hi Ian,

Welcome to the Tube-O-Phile circle! I look forward to your involvement and contributions.

How I would love to give an octet of the Shuguang Black Treasures a try but, alas, it's not in the stars for this blue collar tube-o-phile.

Maybe I will buy a winning lotto ticket someday.

Anyway, glad to have you here!

Cheers,
Jake

cryoparts · « **Reply #90 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 07:04 am »

Okay, update time.

Taxes are done, finally, and I have recovered. So, time to start having some fun again.

I will get the cryo'd Shuguang Treasures good and burned in and report results soon, they were fuly "seasoned" before cryo, but if these are like any of the 1000's of other tubes I have cryo'd, they wil require a whole new break in cycle after cryo.

The KT77 comparo will happen in the future as well. I had a mishap (not from cryo, from my clumsy hands

) with my cryo'd Genalex set last week and needed to get another set of Gen. 77's in so that I could compare a cryo'd set with a stock set. Well, that is in the works. It may be a couple of months before all is done, but there is forward movement!

So, if anyone still cares, that's the scoop!

Peace,

Lee

JakeJ · « **Reply #91 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 03:47 pm »

Oh yeah, we care Lee

Sorry for your bad luck on the Genalex tubes. Keep us posted and if we don't hear from you for a while you may be subjected to prodding occasionally.

Take care and glad you made it through tax day with at least part of your shirt.

Jake

iGrant · « **Reply #92 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 04:19 pm »

A buddy brought over a brand new set of Genelex Gold Lion re-issue KT77's (they sure look a lot like Shuguang EL-34B's btw, more similar than different) for testing after his new Master Sound amp went south after rolling them in for the stock EH EL-34's. After chatting with him it is likely a bad cap that hopefully popped a high voltage fuse.

Anyways tested them on the Amplitrex and got high Heater-to-Cathode leakage readings ranging from 10uA to 30uA. Anyone know if this is common for this tube?, I generally reject anything above 2uA for power/driver tubes and like to see zero, especially on pre-amp tubes.

Lent him an amp, so if these tubes are usable with the high leakage, maybe I can do some comparing myself too

. Btw, he paid $300 Canadian for a matched quad, 3 out of 4 were actually matched.

Cheers,
Ian

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #93 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 04:23 pm »

How does heater-to-cathode leakage effect the performance of the tube? Is this what's generally termed "grid leakage?"

cryoparts · « **Reply #94 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 04:36 pm »

Quote from: JakeJ on 17 Apr 2009, 03:47 pm

Oh yeah, we care Lee

Sorry for your bad luck on the Genalex tubes. Keep us posted and if we don't hear from you for a while you may be subjected to prodding occasionally.

Take care and glad you made it through tax day with at least part of your shirt.

Jake

Feel free to remind me, I tend to "forget" things.

Yeah, the Genalex mishap was not a happy time, oh well.

I have part of one sleeve left of my shirt.

Peace,

Lee

cryoparts · « **Reply #95 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 04:38 pm »

Quote from: iGrant on 17 Apr 2009, 04:19 pm

A buddy brought over a brand new set of Genelex Gold Lion re-issue KT77's (they sure look a lot like Shuguang EL-34B's btw, more similar than different) for testing after his new Master Sound amp went south after rolling them in for the stock EH EL-34's. After chatting with him it is likely a bad cap that hopefully popped a high voltage fuse.

Anyways tested them on the Amplitrex and got high Heater-to-Cathode leakage readings ranging from 10uA to 30uA. Anyone know if this is common for this tube?, I generally reject anything above 2uA for power/driver tubes and like to see zero, especially on pre-amp tubes.

Lent him an amp, so if these tubes are usable with the high leakage, maybe I can do some comparing myself too . Btw, he paid $300 Canadian for a matched quad, 3 out of 4 were actually matched.

Cheers,
Ian

I have had pretty good success with the Gen's, however, I don't have an Amplitrex to test them with, wish I did!

Lee

cryoparts · « **Reply #96 on:** 30 Apr 2009, 06:19 pm »

OK, quick update time.

Getting some good burn in time on the cryo'd Shuguang Treasure 6CA7's and they are stunning. Even more stunning than they were in stock form, quieter, more low level detail, sweeter highs and tighter bass. So, this time, on these tubes, my cryo profile made a nice improvement.

Yeah, I know, I cryo stuff and that may make me biased, so take the above for what it is worth. I really have no interest in promoting the cryo treatment part of my business to individual audiophiles though, as it is way too hard to make money doing piecemeal work, so keep that in mind also. I also have no business ties to Grant Fidelity, or Shuguang, which I've stated before.

In any event, I am incredibly impressed with the Shuguang Treasure 6CA7's, especially when cryo'd. They are clearly better (in this amp) than the SED Winged C's that they replaced. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Yes, at least to me.

Next up, I will compare the Genalex KT77's with the Shuguang's. However, I am slow, so it will be a while. This should be the most interesting part of the comparison and the Gen's are very good as well.

Stay tuned.

Peace,

Lee

FYI--the rest of the tube complement I have been using in the Eastern Electric M520 is: Cryo'd Mullard GZ34, date code f32 (2), Cryo'd Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7 (2) and Cryo'd Genalex EF86 (2).

JakeJ · « **Reply #97 on:** 30 Apr 2009, 07:11 pm »

¡Bueno! Thanks for the update, Lee.

Just curious, do you cryo tubes for other resellers? Can you state who? If it's a contractual issue I understand.

Jake

cryoparts · « **Reply #98 on:** 30 Apr 2009, 07:28 pm »

Quote from: JakeJ on 30 Apr 2009, 07:11 pm

¡Bueno! Thanks for the update, Lee.

Just curious, do you cryo tubes for other resellers? Can you state who? If it's a contractual issue I understand.

Jake

I have in the past, but have not been concentrating on that market for quite some time. I do tons of wire and connectors for other re-sellers and manufacturers, though. I'll let them say who they are if they wish.

Peace,

Lee

JakeJ · « **Reply #99 on:** 30 Apr 2009, 07:51 pm »

Again, thanks Lee. Of course this thread/circle is not the place for them to post but in the "Industry Talk & Events" circle. Just a curious mind that's all.

Jake