Shuguang Treasure 'Black Bottle' 6CA7Z and Genalex KT-77's

cryoparts · « **Reply #100 on:** 12 May 2009, 02:27 am »

Have had the Genalex KT-77's in for a few days now, maybe have 75-100 hours on them. I want to let them break in quite a bit more before I make any detailed comments, however, I will say that the Gen's are quite good in this amp as well. The Gen's are starting to open up and the bass is finally coming around, so I have hope that the next hundred hours, or so, will allow these to start to shine.

I really missed the Shuguang's the first few days. They are quite special (I'm just now beginning to realize how special), if you can afford them, buy a set. No, I don't sell them, ha!

So, I'll update this thread from time to time with impressions as the Gen's break in.

Peace,

Lee

jeffdavison · « **Reply #101 on:** 28 May 2009, 09:20 pm »

bump.... how are the Gen 77's breaking in?

JD

cryoparts · « **Reply #102 on:** 28 May 2009, 10:19 pm »

Quote from: jeffdavison on 28 May 2009, 09:20 pm

bump.... how are the Gen 77's breaking in?

JD

Very nice, I have been doing a lot of listening to them in the background while they are running in and they are really coming around.

I will be exhibiting at a show this weekend, but after I get back and caught up, I will spend a few hours listening next week and report back.

Peace,

Lee

richidoo · « **Reply #103 on:** 29 May 2009, 12:58 am »

Thanks for the updates Lee. Keep it comin!
Rich

Audioclyde · « **Reply #104 on:** 13 Jun 2009, 12:48 am »

Any new updates Lee? I've tried a quad of JJ KT77's recently and loved the sound, but have already had a tube go bad. Seriously considering the GL reissues. I'd love to try the Treasure's, but the asking price is higher than NOS!!

Thanks,

Randy

cryoparts · « **Reply #105 on:** 13 Jun 2009, 12:53 am »

Quote from: Audioclyde on 13 Jun 2009, 12:48 am

Any new updates Lee? I've tried a quad of JJ KT77's recently and loved the sound, but have already had a tube go bad. Seriously considering the GL reissues. I'd love to try the Treasure's, but the asking price is higher than NOS!!

Thanks,

Randy

Yes, I will update soon. Sorry, been snowed under.

The Treasure's are worth the $$$, IMO. I think they are having a sale on them now, another AC member mentioned it to me. Not sure of the details, sorry.

Lee

iGrant · « **Reply #106 on:** 15 Jun 2009, 11:26 pm »

That promo is over, but do contact me or Rachel if interested. Thanks all.

Cheers,
ian

Audioclyde · « **Reply #107 on:** 16 Jun 2009, 03:58 am »

Ian,

PM sent.

Thanks,

Randy

Audioclyde · « **Reply #108 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 12:03 am »

Well the wife and kids surprised me with a quad of GL reissue KT77's for Father's Day.....just got them in the amp and started burning in (I know from past experience with GL reissue KT88's and KT66's that these take at least 150-200 hours for the bass to really kick in). Had about 30 hours or so on them and they are sounding very nice...lots of potential here.

In the meantime, I had ordered a quad of the Black Bottle 6CA7's from Ian & Rachel. They arrived, and not being able to resist, I pulled the KT77's and put the Shugies in. After only about 12-15 hours, I'm pretty excited with their sound--if these improve as Lee experienced I think they will indeed be very special!!!

My tube vendor on the JJ KT77's replaced my bad tube (said it had shorted), so I have that quad to compare also. As I indicated earlier, I really liked their sound, so if either the GL KT77's or the Black Bottle 6CA7's are improvement (and from the little I have heard so far, I think that may indeed be the case), then I think we really have some great options here.

I know I'll be listing my NOS quads of el34's for sale soon

!

cryoparts · « **Reply #109 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 01:40 am »

As much as I like the GL KT77's (ALOT), I like the Shuguang Treasure's that much more. They really are special tubes. Give them a ton of burn in, their sound will go form good, to OK, to pretty awful, back to good, and finally to great over the next few weeks.

Have fun!

Peace,

Lee

Quote from: Audioclyde on 25 Jun 2009, 12:03 am

Well the wife and kids surprised me with a quad of GL reissue KT77's for Father's Day.....just got them in the amp and started burning in (I know from past experience with GL reissue KT88's and KT66's that these take at least 150-200 hours for the bass to really kick in). Had about 30 hours or so on them and they are sounding very nice...lots of potential here.

In the meantime, I had ordered a quad of the Black Bottle 6CA7's from Ian & Rachel. They arrived, and not being able to resist, I pulled the KT77's and put the Shugies in. After only about 12-15 hours, I'm pretty excited with their sound--if these improve as Lee experienced I think they will indeed be very special!!!

My tube vendor on the JJ KT77's replaced my bad tube (said it had shorted), so I have that quad to compare also. As I indicated earlier, I really liked their sound, so if either the GL KT77's or the Black Bottle 6CA7's are improvement (and from the little I have heard so far, I think that may indeed be the case), then I think we really have some great options here.

I know I'll be listing my NOS quads of el34's for sale soon !

Kpt_Krunch · « **Reply #110 on:** 4 Jul 2009, 06:45 am »

cryo - thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on this tube. Seems like they're appropriately named ("treasure"). I was thinking hard about it and decided to buy some myself. They were quite expensive (cost more than what I paid for my Grant Fidelity A-88 amp) but the fact you liken them to a 'component upgrade' rather than just a 'flavour of the month' tube roll had me very intrigued.

A lot of people (well, may not so much here) may call me crazy for spending more on tubes than the amp, but if what you say is true, I probably just took my amp to a level that would cost triple of what my amp retailed for. In which case, I'm coming out way ahead. I won't start another thread on this, but if you don't mind, I'd like to add my thoughts to yours once I get them (from out of the box through to the stages of burn-in - which could take awhile

).

Anyway, thanks again for all for your posts, very informative!

PDR · « **Reply #111 on:** 4 Jul 2009, 07:15 am »

I also have a A-88 and have been looking at these blacks.......It would be great to get your impressions.

cryoparts · « **Reply #112 on:** 4 Jul 2009, 10:01 pm »

Great, I'd love to heard others thoughts on these special tubes. I'm digging them!

Peace,

Lee

Quote from: Kpt_Krunch on 4 Jul 2009, 06:45 am

cryo - thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on this tube. Seems like they're appropriately named ("treasure"). I was thinking hard about it and decided to buy some myself. They were quite expensive (cost more than what I paid for my Grant Fidelity A-88 amp) but the fact you liken them to a 'component upgrade' rather than just a 'flavour of the month' tube roll had me very intrigued.

A lot of people (well, may not so much here) may call me crazy for spending more on tubes than the amp, but if what you say is true, I probably just took my amp to a level that would cost triple of what my amp retailed for. In which case, I'm coming out way ahead. I won't start another thread on this, but if you don't mind, I'd like to add my thoughts to yours once I get them (from out of the box through to the stages of burn-in - which could take awhile ).

Anyway, thanks again for all for your posts, very informative!

Kpt_Krunch · « **Reply #113 on:** 5 Jul 2009, 05:07 am »

Quote from: PDR on 4 Jul 2009, 07:15 am

I also have a A-88 and have been looking at these blacks.......It would be great to get your impressions.

Will do PDR - I've already upgraded the stock 12AX7 to the TJ Full Music that Ian/Rachel sell, and there was a definite difference. Not so much in the tone, but things just seemed more open, a bit sharper (in a good way). Triode mode is not as 'soft' with the TJ's but maintains it's tube warmth - the Treasures have been sent via Purolator. Not sure when they'll get here (I'm hoping by this Tuesday but we'll see) and I'll definitely start posting my impressions.

I'll keep in mind that as they burn in they'll actually start sounding worse before they get better, I'm going to start a tracking sheet actually (call me nuts but I'll make notes on hours listened, how it sounds through each session, and which cds/SACDs/DVD-A's I'm listneing too).

As an aside, I'm using a McIntosh MVP861 Universal player as my transport, and Totem Hawks for the speakers.

Kpt_Krunch · « **Reply #114 on:** 8 Jul 2009, 12:24 am »

Well unfortunately, I found out the CV-181's Shuguang Treasures won't fit in my A-88 (Ian had some parts and tried it out first, too fat.... not Ian, the tubes

) so I'll just be getting the KT-88's. Hopefully I'll still hear a big difference. Last tube to upgrade are the four 6SN7GTB's then. Not sure if the NOS Sylvania brown bottoms being sold at Tube Depot and the Tube Store would be a good match for the TJ Full Music and Shuguang Treasures or not, but does anyone here have any experience with this tube? They're supposed to be a bit on the warm side but still have plenty of detail and range, just don't know how long they'll last and how they'll mate with the chinese tubes.

If anyone has any experience with JAN-CHS Sylvania 6SN7WGTA tube I'm all ears so to speak

iGrant · « **Reply #115 on:** 9 Jul 2009, 07:18 pm »

Quote from: Kpt_Krunch on 8 Jul 2009, 12:24 am

Well unfortunately, I found out the CV-181's Shuguang Treasures won't fit in my A-88 (Ian had some parts and tried it out first, too fat.... not Ian, the tubes ) so I'll just be getting the KT-88's. Hopefully I'll still hear a big difference. Last tube to upgrade are the four 6SN7GTB's then. Not sure if the NOS Sylvania brown bottoms being sold at Tube Depot and the Tube Store would be a good match for the TJ Full Music and Shuguang Treasures or not, but does anyone here have any experience with this tube? They're supposed to be a bit on the warm side but still have plenty of detail and range, just don't know how long they'll last and how they'll mate with the chinese tubes.

If anyone has any experience with JAN-CHS Sylvania 6SN7WGTA tube I'm all ears so to speak

Bummer eh, the CV181-Z is a fat boy about twice the size of 6SN7, about 3.5"h x 2"w. The review by Nels at enjoythemusic.com was with his driver tubes, so yes you will still get a nice amp upgrade. A thought might be to try some EH 6SN7s, affordable and clean (my opinion of most Russian tubes is that they are like Vodka, get the job done without any flavour). I had this combo Treasure KT-88Z and EH 6SN7 in Rita and it was quite good, Rita comes with the EH stock. With our A-348 loaded up with the Treasures give Rita a good run for the money at about half the price, the A-88 loaded should do the same.

Whatever driver tube you go for make sure you ask for both tube sections to be matched to get the best performance.

Cheers,
Ian

Kpt_Krunch · « **Reply #116 on:** 11 Jul 2009, 05:30 pm »

Thanks Ian - I'll look into those!

Kpt_Krunch · « **Reply #117 on:** 12 Jul 2009, 06:29 am »

I was able to get a couple of hours on the tubes today. Using a Grant Fidelity A-88 amp with stock 6SN7 for drivers (Generic Shuguang) and TJ full Music 12AX7 as the preamps. Totem Hawk speakers (will throw my Veritas on there though sometime soon) and a McIntosh MVP 861 universal player as my transport.

With two hours on the Treasures, I find they definitely play louder than the stock generic Shuguang KT-88's. More detail but I found in particular on Pearl Jam's TEN Redux it was very bright and forward. Actually didn't like it as much as the stock tubes, but there was more detail. I also listend to Dire Straits BIA (SACD), some Budgie, and some Acoustic guitar (Peppino D'Agustino - DVD-Audio disc from AIX records). The Budgie was better, not as sibliant or forward, Peppino was OK but lacked the warm mid range I'm used to with the stock tubes.

So, judging by what Cyroparts said on his first impression, that seems to be the MO of the Treasures. I'm really looking forward to the breakin process. Though I won't get a good chance to put a lot of hours on them in the near future, but I will get some in. I'm sure they'll mellow out as they get more hours on them.

Cryo - how many hours did you put on before the first sonic breakthrough?

cryoparts · « **Reply #118 on:** 12 Jul 2009, 06:36 am »

Quote from: Kpt_Krunch on 12 Jul 2009, 06:29 am

Cryo - how many hours did you put on before the first sonic breakthrough?

Really spitty and forward the first 5-10 hours, better at 25, much better at 50, IIRC. The first few hours were pretty brutal, but at about 50 hours, I really started to groove on them.

However, they took a good 300-400 hours to open up all the way. So then I cryo'd them and they took another 300'ish hours to become magic, at least in the M520.

Peace,

Lee

Kpt_Krunch · « **Reply #119 on:** 12 Jul 2009, 07:35 am »

Quote from: cryoparts on 12 Jul 2009, 06:36 am

Quote from: Kpt_Krunch on 12 Jul 2009, 06:29 am
Cryo - how many hours did you put on before the first sonic breakthrough?

Really spitty and forward the first 5-10 hours, better at 25, much better at 50, IIRC. The first few hours were pretty brutal, but at about 50 hours, I really started to groove on them.

However, they took a good 300-400 hours to open up all the way. So then I cryo'd them and they took another 300'ish hours to become magic, at least in the M520.

Peace,

Lee

Spitty and forward - good analogy. I'm going to put my amp in Triode mode tomorrow and it should smooth it out a bit. I have it biased at .52 on my meter (I think you said you were at.50). I'm hoping that the triode mode will be a bit better while these break in. A definte change though - which is good. My biggest fear is I wouldn't notice a difference, and I'm really looking forward to them breaking in