WTB: the best passive preamp there is.

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anubisgrau

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #100 on: 10 May 2010, 09:25 pm »
double post

Dracule1

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #101 on: 10 May 2010, 09:33 pm »
anusbisgrau, is your Tap X the buffered version?  If so, have you compared the buffered versus the passive mode? 

anubisgrau

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #102 on: 10 May 2010, 09:47 pm »
anusbisgrau, is your Tap X the buffered version?  If so, have you compared the buffered versus the passive mode?

yes it is, it´s the one with 6 inputs and 2 outputs. however i have never tried bufferred mode - dave chapman is clear that  unbufferred is the one to be used unless there´s something in your system to compensate. i may try it. i will have a big test tomorrow night where our respected designer of tube gear and TVCs dragan solaja from solaja audio will be present so i will bring both tap x and slagle AVC to hear them against his stuff and also to discuss my findings. i still think such big differences are a consequence of my, rather idiosyncratic system. i will report the findings and opinions of other panelists.

Dracule1

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #103 on: 10 May 2010, 10:38 pm »
That would be great :eyebrows:.  I look forward to hearing the outcome of your comparisons.  John was telling me that the buffered version does introduce some noise into the preamp that is measurable and sometimes audible - to what extent he didn't say.  The Tap X is the most versatile passive pre I have come across.

anubisgrau

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #104 on: 12 May 2010, 09:19 am »
we've had this test yesterday evening and the results came out quite interesting.

we've tested passives in a friend's system i'm not too familiar with however it sounded decent: engaging but not aggressive, quite musical for solid state gear and very detailed and transparent so we were able to notice plenty of difference. it consisted of micromega power amp and CD player (the best they've ever made but i don't know exact models) and quite interesting transmission line symdex speaker designed by snell's kevin voecks (with lots of tonal attributes of later classic snell sound)....

we've had bent TAP-X, DIY AVC based on slagle's autoformers and solaja audio SA-TVC1 (apart from micromega active preamp we haven't been too interested in).

the most disappointing was - as i've hinted from my home experience - TAP-X. it sounded just too reserved, made us yawning a bit and it also had a roll off in the lower bass. sounded clean but a slight reduction in microdynamics was obvious - a guitar track on "dali" test disc lacked impact and brute force of pickin the strings and vibrations from the crowd.

slagle's AVC was much better, with lots more open sound and restored microdynamics. it was also much more involving, we've had a feeling the musicians are here. however my suspicion it doesn't perform well in the lower registers was proven here - a slight lack of control though frankly much less evident here on 7" woofers of symdex than on my speakers' 2x15". i'm pretty much convinced these autoformers needs to be restacked to be tuned to the system and i will play with them soon.

suprisingly (as i really didn't expect this product to shine so much), solaja audio SA-TVC1 came unanymously on the top. it had a rock solid sound, musicality that no other matched, music was again involving and exicting, the feet were tapping to the deep and tuneful and perfectly controlled bass.... for those who are not familiar, solaja exhibits together on RMAF or CES together with RAAL speakers and he really is a good builder of transformer and tube based gear. he wounds his own transformers and his current TVC uses japanese amorphous double-C cores of a decent size (a bit bigger than others).

later we tried TAP-X via bufferred output (sub) and surprisingly it sounded better than through non bufferred one - though not so much better to change the above order - there was a bit more life in the music and slightly more drive but that's all. it will be probably put on sale - which is a shame because i hoped it would be a perfect magnetic, fully functional (remote, multi inputs) preamp which didn't turn to be true at least with my unit and in my system...

don't know if this helps anyone, hope it was fun reading...

:)

Dracule1

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #105 on: 12 May 2010, 10:01 pm »
Thanks!  That's very informative.  So how does the Solaja Audio SA-TVC1 compare with the Myth?  Does it have similar dynamics and transparency? 

I find it curious you preferred the Tap X buffered output over the passive.  Everyone I've talked to including John Chapman says the buffered output is inferior to the passive output.  Dave Slagle also told me the modified Slagleformer in the Tap X sounds better than a Slagleformer using Elma for volume control.  I'm really wondering if there is something wrong with your Tap X.

anubisgrau

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #106 on: 12 May 2010, 10:12 pm »
Thanks!  That's very informative.  So how does the Solaja Audio SA-TVC1 compare with the Myth?  Does it have similar dynamics and transparency? 

I haven't performed that test yet. Solaja somehow went under my radar over the years, although he is the one whom shall I thank for my obsession with passive preamps. I have very fond memories of his first TVC, wound as an experiment on big, vintage Siemens double C cores and with a rather crude and primitive 10-step attenuation selector. It wiped the floor both with Promitheus and Music First TVC however it was of no use in my system as it was too loud on the first step. A later, production model didn't convince me as that one - probably a bar set too high - and I haven't had a chance to hear the current version with Hitachi amorpheous C-cores until yesterday. It really sounded great - if I would love to pick nuts I could say that it had a slight roll of in the highest spectrum in comparison with Slagle AVC, though it could well be the case that Slagle AVC is a bit tilted up there. I don't know.

I find it curious you preferred the Tap X buffered output over the passive.  Everyone I've talked to including John Chapman says the buffered output is inferior to the passive output.  Dave Slagle also told me the modified Slagleformer in the Tap X sounds better than a Slagleformer using Elma for volume control.  I'm really wondering if there is something wrong with your Tap X.

I have no explanation but I wasn't alone there. This was so clear for all of us present in the room that we actually didn't have a single different opinion (another two were Dragan Solaja himself and our host with a very good pair of ears). I was actually seeking to try Tap X and Slagle AVC in another system because I wasn't sure if my wierd system (1.5w amps with 114db speakers, NOS DACs) shows them in the realistic light. Unfortunately it does.

I may open Tap X to have a look inside. My first thoughts yesterday evening was that the outputs are mixed.


Dracule1

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #107 on: 12 May 2010, 10:47 pm »
I'm glad there is such a strong audiophile community in Serbia - I'm seeing good stuff come from there :D.  I talked Gordon Peacock about the Myth.  He told me the current production includes the revised buffer layout with more powerful JFETs and upgraded PS, which is supposed to get rid of the transistor sound and increase transparency.  I hope you will get to evaluate the this latest version and report your findings.  I am really considering the Myth for my system.  Thanks again.

JoshK

Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #108 on: 12 May 2010, 10:57 pm »
we've had this test yesterday evening and the results came out quite interesting.

we've tested passives in a friend's system i'm not too familiar with however it sounded decent: engaging but not aggressive, quite musical for solid state gear and very detailed and transparent so we were able to notice plenty of difference. it consisted of micromega power amp and CD player (the best they've ever made but i don't know exact models) and quite interesting transmission line symdex speaker designed by snell's kevin voecks (with lots of tonal attributes of later classic snell sound)....

we've had bent TAP-X, DIY AVC based on slagle's autoformers and solaja audio SA-TVC1 (apart from micromega active preamp we haven't been too interested in).

the most disappointing was - as i've hinted from my home experience - TAP-X. it sounded just too reserved, made us yawning a bit and it also had a roll off in the lower bass. sounded clean but a slight reduction in microdynamics was obvious - a guitar track on "dali" test disc lacked impact and brute force of pickin the strings and vibrations from the crowd.

slagle's AVC was much better, with lots more open sound and restored microdynamics. it was also much more involving, we've had a feeling the musicians are here. however my suspicion it doesn't perform well in the lower registers was proven here - a slight lack of control though frankly much less evident here on 7" woofers of symdex than on my speakers' 2x15". i'm pretty much convinced these autoformers needs to be restacked to be tuned to the system and i will play with them soon.

suprisingly (as i really didn't expect this product to shine so much), solaja audio SA-TVC1 came unanymously on the top. it had a rock solid sound, musicality that no other matched, music was again involving and exicting, the feet were tapping to the deep and tuneful and perfectly controlled bass.... for those who are not familiar, solaja exhibits together on RMAF or CES together with RAAL speakers and he really is a good builder of transformer and tube based gear. he wounds his own transformers and his current TVC uses japanese amorphous double-C cores of a decent size (a bit bigger than others).

later we tried TAP-X via bufferred output (sub) and surprisingly it sounded better than through non bufferred one - though not so much better to change the above order - there was a bit more life in the music and slightly more drive but that's all. it will be probably put on sale - which is a shame because i hoped it would be a perfect magnetic, fully functional (remote, multi inputs) preamp which didn't turn to be true at least with my unit and in my system...

don't know if this helps anyone, hope it was fun reading...

:)

My $.02.  Sounds like you have a tiny bit of DC on your source's output.  The Slagle AVC's shouldn't be "stacked".  They assume no DC.  The TVCs allow no passing of ground loops from source to preamp, the AVCs don't.  However, if everything is optimized for no ground loops and no DC the AVCs will have much wider bandwidth. 

My opinion is that you hit a wall due to non-optimality in other portions of your system.  Check your grounding scheme.  Measure the DC offset of your source(s).

anubisgrau

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #109 on: 13 May 2010, 12:34 am »
my findings are based on test in two very different systems - mine has a slight, very tiny ground loop so you have a point here. but that's why i wanted to check these passives in another system - and this was described above. there was no any audible ground loop there but we certainly didn't measure it...

Dracule1

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #110 on: 13 May 2010, 10:01 pm »
Anubisgrau, when will you compare the Solaja TVC1 with the Myth?

anubisgrau

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #111 on: 13 May 2010, 10:09 pm »
i have to borrow SA-TVC1 from solaja and i have to wait for my myth to be upgraded to the new buffers and PSU. the unit is with zoran (the main myth guy) but it might take some time as he is busy with the orders.

Dracule1

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #112 on: 13 May 2010, 10:16 pm »
Thanks.  I haven't been this excited about a preamp comparison in a long time. They both cost about the same.

anubisgrau

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #113 on: 13 May 2010, 10:21 pm »
Yes, I think they are both very favourably priced for what they offer. I'm sure they would cost much more if they would be US sourced - where labour costs more. And both were superior to the well respected products from Promitheus, Music First and now Bent. Funilly I remembered my forum posts from 3 years ago when /amidst the forum frenzy about Promi TVC/ I complained about poor geometry of its cores (EI) in comparison with Solaja's big double-C cores. A year later, Nick came with the C-cores, just as Music First now in their reference TVC. Solaja was there before them all.

Dracule1

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #114 on: 14 May 2010, 01:43 am »
Yes it probably would cost more but shipping from Serbia to US is several hundred dollars, so the diiference may not be that much.   I think the TVC1 looks the best of the bunch, especially with the rotary lit volume.  I wish it had more than 24 positions and balance control like the Bent.  Did you feel that the TVC1 has similar dynamics and bass reponse as thr Myth?

anubisgrau

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #115 on: 14 May 2010, 09:53 am »
most likely yes - except that I've had a feeling that the HF was rolled off. let's wait for a while so i hear them both together.

Dracule1

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #116 on: 22 May 2010, 02:50 am »
anubisgrau, any updates?

Agisthos

Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #117 on: 19 Jan 2011, 03:25 am »
Any updates on the latest version of the Myth preamp?

anubisgrau

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Re: WTB: the best passive preamp there is.
« Reply #118 on: 19 Jan 2011, 09:54 am »
well i don't know what you want to know?

btw mine is for sale because i want to go for integrated LDR/DAC myth has now developed

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?50083-Myth-LDR-preamp-for-sale