[Don_S]

edit
 Finally, u might have to find whitty ways to bump it forward a few times to get folks to see it. 

At any one time there is normally 200+ folks online....but due to the plethora of subjects covered from a large membership size, your ad winds down from the first page of results pretty quickly - so you need to bump it forward a bit 

edit
John

ChairGuy, Is there a way for frequent fliers to immediately go to the "Trading Post" Circle without having to scroll through the menu?  Perhaps a separate link could be added to the top navigation bar. That would facilitate buying and selling.

The question I have is does AC really want the increased traffic?  Who is going to pay for the expense? I do not understand the "business" model of AC.

I have five items (total price $9-10K)  to list when I get back from vacation.  They will not get listed on Audiogon.

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Don,

You have three tabs towards the left side of AC's main screen....Defaults, Favorites and My Circles.  You can program each to screen in or out what circles you'd like to see on AC...so you can keep flying high, babeeee 

There is no business model, per se, here.  JohnR lives in Australia and owns the site and, fortunately for all of us, he's agnostic to the notion of making money from it.  He derives a small amount of revenue from hosting audio business owners that have their circles here on AC and occasionally (tho it's been years now since the last) asks for voluntary donations at the year end holiday time to shore up any shortfall.

The thing that would cost us the most to keep AC running would be keeping a techie like JohnR properly paid to run the site.....which he graciously donates for nearly free (seriously, if he makes enough to pay for a AUS$1000 preamp yearly I'd be surprised).  We all should be ecstatic we're getting a top-notch techie for the equivalent of $1 an hour to keep AC humming.  AC is the Craigslist of the hi-end audio world.

John, if you've never run into him, is not the chummy sort   But, honesty is his forte...and I'll take that tradeoff over chummy any day 

So, list those items on AC, it's gratis - just make them complete with pics and a real write-up, bump them forward as needed, keep the banter light and whitty, price them right and you'll see a few likely sell 

John

[jimdgoulding]

I can't miss an opportunity to pile on A'Gon.  I think they suck large.  You oughta hear what Paul Speltz of solid core cable fame has to say about them.   

[timind]

Chairguy,

How do I post pics in my ad if they aren't at a URL. I put them in my gallery here but could only provide links to them. Here's the ad http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=59910.msg533407#msg533407. I've posted pics before but that was linked to the Agon ad.

Thanks.

[Jon L]

Hopefully this is the straw that breaks the camel's back and they've priced themselves out of the market.

x2.  I was going to put up some items for sale on Agon, but no longer.  I will try other sites first, as I suspect many others will also. 

BTW, what's the best way to contact Audiogon to communicate our dismay? 

[richidoo]

So, list those items on AC, it's gratis - just make them complete with pics and a real write-up, bump them forward as needed, keep the banter light and whitty, price them right and you'll see a few likely sell 

Read MaxCast's sticky about the proper etiquette for posting in the Trading Post, where he suggests making your AC ad a real ad. I suggest we STOP linking AC ads to audiogon ads. Post your pictures in the AC gallery and DELETE them when the item sells to keep the server overhead low. Consider kicking $6 to AC as a donation for each item sold. Same as you have been doing over on The Goner but here it will serve your own self in the long run, not the greedy morons running Primedia.

The Absolute Sound is dolling up their avguide.com website, I wonder if they will respond to Stereophile's Audiogon linkage by launching their own used marketplace. I doubt it because it is a conflict of interest for a trade magazine (which is marketed to audiophiles) to help us buy their advertisers' merchandise used. Magazine's earnings come from advertising revenue, not subscription fees. Large, traditional audio manufacturers hate Audiogon.  Could that be why Audiogon, the megaphone of the high end manufacturers, is trying to hurt itselfby raising prices? Higher prices reduce sales among bargain hunters. A little conspiracy theory to chew on...  hehe

You'll never see an analysis of Audigon owner Primedia's business goals within the home entertainment industry, but here's something which describes their posture in their meat and potatoes market, the automotive hobby. They are moving to sink their roots deeper into online transactional business. Audiogon is the premier brand in that sector of the audio industry. Since buying it last year Primedia can control Audiogon, farm it for data, or kill it off, whatever suits their interests. I'm sure they realize Gon has a near monopoly and a very strong brand and can afford to piss off a few hardcore users while the occasional seller who makes up 80% of their income just swallows it. Same tactics used by Bank of America when they gave credit cards to illegal aliens. Many BOA customers revolted, but most people have bigger fish to worry about, and did nothing. BOA laughed it off, now flying high and nobody even remembers, no doubt gained marketshare among latinos which are fastest growing banking customer demographic.  Primedia could give a hoot about audiophiles, they want to improve their stock price and the home entertainment sector is not helping. Just squeeze it harder!

Rich

[TheChairGuy]

Chairguy,

How do I post pics in my ad if they aren't at a URL. I put them in my gallery here but could only provide links to them. Here's the ad http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=59910.msg533407#msg533407. I've posted pics before but that was linked to the Agon ad.

Thanks.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=40968.0 

John

[Philistine]

I've been successful selling on A'gon, and will go against the grain by considering their 1.5% fee is not unreasonable (compared with Ebay & PayPal fees) - after all it's only $15 for a $1000 transaction.
What I do find unacceptable is their posturing as a forum when really it's a commercial enterprise, and it's easy to get on the 'black list' if you remotely negatively critique or ask 'difficult' questions about some of the products or services that are provided by many of the 'alleged' charlatans and snake oil sellers that infest the site.  At the same time their support of some of the more shady sellers in disputes, and the general dispute handling, is less than stellar.
Consequently I just utilise them as a trading vehicle only.

If the AC wanted to charge a small admin fee on sales, in order to support the running of the forum, then I would be happy to pay this.  This gets down to the strategy JohnR wants to follow, but just wanted to raise this as an option?       

[Don_S]

Miscellaneous:

Thanks for the info ChairGuy

richidoo,  Do you know for a fact that large, traditional manufacturers hate Audiogon?  I know of one, that while not fond of Audiogon, understands that the active used market for their equipment may bring them new fans and definitely allows existing customers to upgrade to newer models.

Prediction:  Audiogon may lower the rate to 1% to make users feel like they won (the battle, not the war).  Or-----2% by 2010. 

[Steidl Guitars]

considering their 1.5% fee is not unreasonable (compared with Ebay & PayPal fees)

Agreed. 

No one likes to pay more for anything, me included.  Frankly, however, I struggle much more with PayPal that gets about 3.5% or so just to hand-off money.  Sure, you can sometimes work a sale another way, but it usually is riskier. 

On A'gon, at least you get something for your money--your item in front of a large, well-defined market. 

[darkside]

I started as a Showcase dealer on Audiogon back in late 98 or early 99 and I now only use them for a few items. With this latest price hike I will be using them  even less. Dragan that runs  http://www.hifihock.com  was a customer of mine and now a good friend .
 His costs are as follows:Classifieds and Auctions Listing Prices
 
 
Category Listing Cost: 
Listing (all categories)
 $2.00
 
Listing Renewal
 $2.00
 Storefront (1 month) $50 Storefront (6 months) $250.00 and Storefront (12 months) $450.00
 Extra Costs: 
Featured Ad Status:  $2.00 
Ad Bolding:  $2.00 
Better Placement:  $2.00 
Attention Getters:  $2.00 
 When you register it is free and he gives you 10 free listings just for joining. Audiogon wants around $500 or $600 for a Storefront per month.

[richidoo]

richidoo,  Do you know for a fact that large, traditional manufacturers hate Audiogon?  I know of one, that while not fond of Audiogon, understands that the active used market for their equipment may bring them new fans and definitely allows existing customers to upgrade to newer models.

Don, you have some good points. Maybe hate is too strong a word.    

Somebody that has tasted the forbidden fruit of 50% discount on used gear will have a hard time paying full price ever again. There is just so much good stuff available used, and anything is available used if you are patient. Audiogon has a good thing going, and Primedia knows it. Might as well make those rich audiophiles pay to trade, just like a yacht brokerage. 

But they don't charge 1.5% for listings in their New Homes Guide publications because nobody would pay $5000 for an ad. Online classifieds have virtually no cost to the publisher. $15/$1000 is not cheap. Those that think it is are the 80% they are looking to keep. They don't charge 1.5% on private sales advertised in their MotorTrend magazine, or on their HotRod internet forum classifieds.

Audiogon forces innovation in design and marketing among mfgs if they wish to succeed. That's a good thing. The marketplace for audio gear is much more efficient now, and mfgs definitely don't like that. Eventually they will adopt the new, more efficient models or move to sectors where inefficiencies are still the norm, like premium HT.

[Mariusz]

Can we have similar auction/classifies here on Audio Circle ???? 
AgoN is steering lately more towards money making machine rather then HiFi/audiophile support site. 
I believe it would be great to have this ability of interaction, feedback, product sell assistance thru auctions or classifieds.
What do you guys think about it ?   aa
To much to ask ?  Maybe.
Maybe not.
Even if there was an initial charge for advertisement or classifieds, I will be all for it. The money collected for these services could go towards the site growth and development as well as service and maintenance. Hell, I would even be willing to contribute the extra dollar for the good cause or charity. 

Mariusz 

[sbrtoy]

With lots of people who need to sell audio gear right now to pay for more important priorities it seems like they are merely taking advantage of a bad situation for many...

The worst thing about Audiogon though is their support, it is actually much easier to get in contact with and get help from eBay than Audiogon, which given the costs involved and size of their membership tells me Audiogon just doesn't give a rats @$$.

I actually bought an item directly from Audiogon after CES one year and had to work through them for the purchase.  Probably the worst transaction I have ever had on there with anyone, which probably tells the story.

[Don_S]

edit

I actually bought an item directly from Audiogon after CES one year and had to work through them for the purchase.  Probably the worst transaction I have ever had on there with anyone, which probably tells the story.

I hope you left them negative feedback. That's -4 points for Audiogon.   

[timind]

Can we have similar auction/classifies here on Audio Circle ???? 
AgoN is steering lately more towards money making machine rather then HiFi/audiophile support site. 
I believe it would be great to have this ability of interaction, feedback, product sell assistance thru auctions or classifieds.
What do you guys think about it ?   aa
To much to ask ?  Maybe.
Maybe not.
Even if there was an initial charge for advertisement or classifieds, I will be all for it. The money collected for these services could go towards the site growth and development as well as service and maintenance. Hell, I would even be willing to contribute the extra dollar for the good cause or charity. 

Mariusz 

There is a classified section on audiocircle. Click on "Circles" then scroll to "Market Place." Listing ads is free. Unfortunately, response is nowhere near what you get on Agon or ebay.

[doug s.]

the next time i list an ad on agon, i will also reference the fact that i have it f/s on audiocircle.  if someone makes me an offer here, then no commission for agon...   

doug s.

[Mariusz]

Can we have similar auction/classifies here on Audio Circle ???? 
AgoN is steering lately more towards money making machine rather then HiFi/audiophile support site. 
I believe it would be great to have this ability of interaction, feedback, product sell assistance thru auctions or classifieds.
What do you guys think about it ?   aa
To much to ask ?  Maybe.
Maybe not.
Even if there was an initial charge for advertisement or classifieds, I will be all for it. The money collected for these services could go towards the site growth and development as well as service and maintenance. Hell, I would even be willing to contribute the extra dollar for the good cause or charity. 

Mariusz 

There is a classified section on audiocircle. Click on "Circles" then scroll to "Market Place." Listing ads is free. Unfortunately, response is nowhere near what you get on Agon or ebay.

Thanks Timide and I am aware of that , however there is a work and time involved to make it successful like AgoN. What I meant was the format similar to AgoN with feedback, special section, product gallery etc. Even if it had to cost a little, I would not mind. Sure it takes the time and money to make it work but what if it did?????  Just imagine.

Mariusz

[kyrill]

i would not mind at all if audiocircle had a definite ( not temporal) donate via paypal button. this is my favorite audio forum I also donate for free programs i find useful like CCleaner, Foxit adobe reader and so on. So why not for useful forums?

[opaqueice]

Thanks Timide and I am aware of that , however there is a work and time involved to make it successful like AgoN. What I meant was the format similar to AgoN with feedback, special section, product gallery etc. Even if it had to cost a little, I would not mind. Sure it takes the time and money to make it work but what if it did?????  Just imagine.

Mariusz

Feeback should be pretty easy to implement.  A lot of forum software has it built-in already.  It might require some tweaking to get it to work as desired for this purpose, but I think it could be done with little or no coding.  Product gallery might be a little harder, unless someone can think of a clever way to automate it.