[Delacroix]

http://www.diffractionbegone.com/index.html

I gather they offer a VSA fit.

[lonewolfny42]

Did you read this......

[Danberg]

I have a pair of VR4-JR and also would like anyones experience with this product.

[Delacroix]

Did you read this......

I did now, thanks ...and it seems Mike tried them on his VR4s, but I don't find a comment yet. I also found this, if one fancies a cheaper home-made alternative (scroll down a bit) http://psaudio.com/account/tips.asp

[satfrat]

http://www.diffractionbegone.com/index.html

I gather they offer a VSA fit.

I have them on my 4 Odyssey Lorelei's and they won't be coming off anytime soon. Jim can make to order these woolie surrounds to most any given dimension and they can be dyed from their stock gray to better blend in. The thickness of this very dense wool is slightly under 1/2". They did an excellent job with adding depth & clarity to the imaging on my loudspeakers.

Cheers,
Robin

[WGH]

I have a home-made pair on my VR2's, they help with imaging.

The grills for the VR2's already have foam diffraction panels glued in. I noticed the imaging is more focused with the grills on, but I prefer the highs with the grills off, so I made a custom shape so I can install the grills when needed.

The tweeters on the VR2's face forward and are not tilted back like the VR4's, an inverted "U" shape might work better if the highs are attenuated too much.

Wayne

[mfsoa]

Tried them on VR4JRs and ended up not using them. Took away too much, but my room is really dead and the speakers have always struggled to be as alive as I would want them. I would have liked to have some of the effect that the pads cause, but to me they were a bit much. It does make me want to experiment with other materials that might be more subtle.

And if you use the grills, Albert already has some diffraction controll going on. I prefer no grills on top, and have now been listening with none on the bottom as well which does sound better.

The product definitely does what it's supposed to and I had a pleasant transaction, but just a bit too much for me. Would I try on another speaker/room in the future? - Absolutely. Image specificity and overall "non-speakerness" did improve with the pads, but at the toe-in I like (almost none) the pads blocked too much highs. A bigger hole would be better to cover less of the little wave-guide thingy around the tweeter.

I wrote a long PM to the mfgr - If anyone wants I'll ask permission to share in a PM.

-Mike

[slinco]

I've experimented extensively with grills on/grills off on my VR4jr's, and grills on sounds better in my very "live" room. I'm sure it's the foam diffraction control built into the grills that makes the difference.

[Delacroix]

Tried them on VR4JRs and ended up not using them. ........

I wrote a long PM to the mfgr - If anyone wants I'll ask permission to share in a PM.

-Mike

Hi Mike, I'd certainly be interested in hearing more -- and since the mfgr is a poster on AC, he might like to join in too.

best wishes

[jimdgoulding]

Thanks, DLC, for the invite.  I think Satfrat meant to say that they are slightly UNDER 1/2" in thickness.  They are 3/8th of an inch, to be exact.  I also make them available in 1/4" for reasons a customer might have.

Mike (mfsoa) told me in an exchange of PM's that he did, indeed, think too much high energy was being taken away (I think I got that right).  Tell you what I think is going on.  There is NO change to the level of the high end on axis.  This can be seen in two frequency response studies sent to me.  One by Danny Richie on his two way AV1 speakers and another high resolution study from a customer in Brisbane, AU using DEQX on his Dynaudio Special 25's.  But, what can be seen in both studies is a smoothing of peaks and valleys in the neighborhood of 2000 to 5000Hz of up to +/- 3db with the surrounds in place.  That loss of linearity is a diffraction effect.  I sent Stereophile a set in the hopes that they would review which they politely declined to do.  Imagine their dilemma as they post measurements in the frequency domain in speaker studies.  On whose speaker are they going to show this information?  Anyway, back on topic, if a person's speakers are pronounced in this range as described, this change may take a little getting used to.  Most guys say their tweeter and mid drivers sound more integrated and I say more information is allowed to emerge.  Think of what emphasis (a peak) and de-emphasis (what it shadows) can potentially do to your perception of the event being played.  I won't attempt to do that for you. 

Now, there IS a reduction of off axis energy above the crossover (up to 4db in Danny's study).  There is an upside to this in terms of imaging.  Things have more of a defined shape to them and separate out more spatially in all dimensions.  This is probably due equally to the absence of timing error to the delivery of information with the surrounds in place and is relevant, I believe, to the perception of a loss of energy (ala Mike) cause what we hear in the end is a combination of both on and off axis energy (particularly in close quarters).  Off axis energy arrives out of time and phase in addition to diffracted waveforms.  Best if our speakers are out aways from our room boundaries so it's more in the background.  That just leaves our baffles and cabinet edges.  Give Jim a chance!

Here is some very recent feedback from a fellow using VS speaks:

"Jim, after a week of use on the VR1s and VR4JRs I'm convinced these pads are not going back.  I really like what they do each of my systems.  Overall the impact of the pads seems to be to create sharper transients, more detailed imaging and improved image focus and significantly truer-sounding instrument timber.  The general impression is for instruments and vocals to have more of a live performance sound with the sound becoming freed of the speaker boxes.  And finally, while nothing actually sounded harsh before the pads, with the pads there seems to be a more effortless, natural-sounding presentation of the music - as though there was some harshness I wasn't aware of that is now gone.  It feels like I'm finally hearing what my system is capable of, what I've expected with every other upgrade and never found , and finally hear. Thanks for a giving me the sound I've been looking for. 

Next week, RMAF is in town and I was looking forward to attending in order to hear a few speakers I've been interested in.  But with these improvements, and the dreadful state of the economy, I can't imagine I'm going to hear anything that can beat what I now have with your pads, without paying what my entire system costs just for speakers.  I think you just helped me get off of the upgrade bandwagon.  Joe G."

And a review by an editor/publisher using a quartet of VR2's can be seen here:

http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=2932 (the color is made lighter than life by the flash)

Another thing I would mention is that the so-called wool felt available at fabric suppliers and hardware stores is largely synthetic.  The portion that it is (60% rayon in my experience), is itself reflective, non absorbant.

In the end, I offer with an unconditional buy back guarantee so listeners can audition in their own systems.  Mike decided to keep his saying that he might have occasion to give em a whirl down the road.  His impressions could very well change, depending.  My impressions remain wholly positive after these many months.

I'm delighted to try my best to answer any questions anyone may have here or in a PM.  Cheers.

[mfsoa]

Even though I come off as the pooh-pooh-er of pads, I absolutely agree that image specificity and especially image depth were enhanced. Much less "splashyness" coming from the plane of the speaker cabinet which allows the ear to hear muuuch farther into the back of the soundstage.


Grrrrr, Jim, you are going to have me puttin' these things back on for a spell aren't you! 

One thing at least for VR4JR owners is that you can't (at least I didn't see how to) have the pads on and the grill cover on at the same time, so if you need to leave the grills on 24/7, you'll need to work something out with Jim.

-Mike

[es347]

The only concern I would have is that they may tend to tighten the sweet spot when one of the traits of AVS speakers is a broader sweet spot while maintaining good imaging.  Am I wrong here?
thx.

[satfrat]

The only concern I would have is that they may tend to tighten the sweet spot when one of the traits of AVS speakers is a broader sweet spot while maintaining good imaging.  Am I wrong here?
thx.

I can't speak for your speakers but on my Lorelei's, the already solid imaging is enhanced with the pads. Greatly enhanced & focused soundstage too.


Cheers,
Robin

[jimdgoulding]

Delacroix-  Hola, moderador!  Seeing how I may get to make your acquaintence on Nov 8 (hope that's the case), want I should bring a generic set for you to take home and play with?  My pleasure.  No strings.  What I have in mind could be cut by you to fit inside of your grilles if you use VR4jr's.  If you use VR1's, 2's, or old timey 4's, they could be specific to those in advance.  Maybe you would have another speaker you might prefer to use?  Lemme me know, sir.

[daztag]

Russ andrews do a similar thing here in the u.k.-
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=5750&customer_id=PAA1844101908333OVIEGWLLZEVPQENS

[Delacroix]

Delacroix-  Hola, moderador!  Seeing how I may get to make your acquaintence on Nov 8 (hope that's the case), want I should bring a generic set for you to take home and play with?  My pleasure.  No strings.  What I have in mind could be cut by you to fit inside of your grilles if you use VR4jr's.  If you use VR1's, 2's, or old timey 4's, they could be specific to those in advance.  Maybe you would have another speaker you might prefer to use?  Lemme me know, sir.

How could a gentleman refuse such a gracious offer?  I use the VR5s, if that helps (probably the same size as the 4s........if you need more info, IM me. At the very least, I can report here, and maybe we can work it up from there. Yes, hope we get to meet in Nov (at the Austin Audio mix, for those wondering what we are talking about!)

[jimdgoulding]

Remarkably, I've had two VR4jr orders and one on a first edition VR4 with squared cabinetry within the last two weeks.  I'll have to ask those fellows if they are tuned in here. 

Mike-  Thank you for your input.  Sorry I've been so late in doing so.  I confess to being a rascal.  I've been had.   

Daztag-  Greetings.  You can see a head to head by a very sceptical fellow (Jandl100) based on his experience with the product you mention at The Art of Sound Forum in the UK.  This fine fellow rolled out a transit set of what I make for guys to try before purchasing at Hifi Wigwam.  I think you could say he is an enthusiast (on some active B&W speaks).

[jimdgoulding]

Got this just last night from Joe G. (VR4 and VR1 speaks) as a follow up-  Two nights ago I had a friend over, a professional musician (bassist), and he was amazed at the realism my system now produces.  Said it was the closest he'd ever heard a home system produce what sounds like a live venue. 

Music to my ears.  Might be to yours, too?  One way to find out.

[jimdgoulding]

ye ole bump.

[es347]

Ye olde SHAMELESS bump.