NEW! diffractionbegone results

jimdgoulding · « **on:** 30 Oct 2007, 12:53 pm »

To all Audio Circle members who ordered in mid October . . the little bit of happiness I wish you to have is on the way. Also . .

My customer with the DEQX in Brisbane using Dynaudio Special 25’s has promised me another frequency response graph showing a smoothing out of peaks and valleys using the tweeter only between 2500Hz and 10kHz with his surrounds in place. The one sent previously will not transpose to the reply box here. Too much information, I am told. Later, perhaps. Danny made a study shown in my avatar (I'm the blue line) using his two-way monitors with similar results. As stated previously, this is of no relevance to where I think the greatest improvement is to be derived but it does show that those of you using box speakers with surface mounted high frequency drivers can expect an improvement in the frequency domain as well. I believe this is an adhoc result of the design. The correction I refer to could begin lower than that, or higher, depending on the width of your baffles. Regardless, you’re in for a more truthful revealing of what’s in those bits and grooves with the removal of early reflection.

I’ve learned a gang since arriving at Audio Circle and two speakers, in particular, that I would love to audition are the SP Tech Timepiece 3.0’s and the new Emerald Physics CS2’s. I believe my room is too small for LS9’s. But, for those of you with affection for speakers you now own and for whom my mod is intended, fret not, you can save yourself about $3000 and enjoy some of the soundstaging afforded by these designs. That is not to say that I think these speakers aren’t worth the asking price. They are two I would genuinely consider if I weren’t so enamored with what I am hearing. I am awed by these creations.

For purposes of this new thread, I invite those of you who recently purchased to share your experience (you better . . I’ll send you a box of moths, if you don’t). It’s your forum. Think I’ll just sit on the sideline and listen to some new music I got turned on to here. When I can find the time, that is. Thanks, all, for your support.

Oh. And I will continue the Audio Circle price for members (per pair) so long as there isn’t too much custom work involved.

Happier listening (just you wait!).

Jim Goulding
www.diffractionbegone.com

satfrat · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Oct 2007, 11:17 pm »

Well I received my wool surrounds yesterday and preceeded to do a 19 hour listening session. The surrounds fit like a glove. Even tho they don't look horrible, I'm not very fond of looking at them. I will give them quite a bit of time before I put the black shoe polish to them. Thanks for the little test pieces, they'll surely come in handy if I do go the shoe polish route. I was surprised at the thickness of these wool surrounds, very substantial. I personally don't see these things falling apart in the years to come and fully expect them to retain there composition.

Now for the sound,,,,,,,, I first played a Candian female jazz singer who I like better than Diana Krall or Patricia Barber, this being Emilie-Claire Barlow: The Very Thought Of You. I've always found this album to image excellent with a deep soundstage. I figured if I coud detect an image & depth perception on this album, your surrounds would be keepers. I'd say it took maybe 5 seconds,,,,, or was it 6, I don't remember exactly but my mind was made up somewhat instantaneously. BAAAMM, the Lorelei's were gone and I went from the middle row of my concert hall to like the 1st row. There was just more focus & more treble attack and even tho there was a deeper soundstage being created, the added focus drew me closer to the singer. The tweeter is much more defined now with a sharper clearer treble. Jim says I'm [size=06pt]edit[/size] NOT getting the first reflection now so I guess that's whats accounting for these clearer sharper highs.

My Lorelei's have always done a good job of hiding themselves thanks for their imaging quality but now, my Lorelei's has left the building,,,, gone! Astonishing. With this increased focus & depth came the perception of increased volume. I'd guess a good 6-7 db increase from where I would normally listen to female vocals and I started out by turning down the volume(wasn't long before the volume was on it's way back up tho). I did end up recalibrating my speakers, they were all off a 1/2 db from each other,,front to back.

I then switched it and got down with Joe Satriani: Super Colossal,,,, and the volume went up,,,, and up some more. It's funny how I can listen to vocals, jazz, classical, etc with a low to medium high volume but when it comes to rock, it's only meant to be heard 1 way, F***ing LOUD!!! I think I can get use to this front row seating,,,this is focus to the extreme. Talk about X-Games.

Just a little more volune,,,,,, 99 db's just about right.

These wool surrounds are unbelievable on how they focus, intensify the treble and amplify my already dynamic system. It's really the first time I'm seeing what people see in stereo as I'm been using 2-channel to back off on this intense focus. The music is so projecting, that the rear speakers are almost overkill. I even had to shut off the panorama on the Dobly Pro Logic 2x, just to rein in this spacial dynamic soundstage of mine. A good analogy would be the Lorelei's have always made me feel like I was sitting in the center of an empty concert hall with that deep dynamic sound. Well now that deep dynamic sound has got so deep & focused that I feel like I'm in the front row and that dynamics is slapping me in my face. i started the day cranking the volume down cuz it was just too much. but as the hours went by, so has the volume risen. I have ways of taming the edge in the focus, that's the good thing about overkill, there's a lot of room for adjusting. That'll come if needed, but not for a while. I think I'll just let the tones slap me up side the face for awhile.

No doubt about it Jim, any surface mounted tweeter will benefit from these wool surrounds. The focus improvements rate right up there with what I achieved when I placed the Sistrum Platforms under my Lorelei's. Only difference was the Sistrum Platforms were like 10 times the price of your Surrounds. These product is a nobrainer if I've ever come across one, especialy at the more realistic price of $29.95. If I were you Jim, I'd keep that price and maye charge more for offering color coating, something you might want to work on. It's definitely something I'll probably be looking into after a while.

Thanks Jim for offering up this great tweeter tweak, I'll be especially looking forward to Jim N.'s comparson with those neoprene ovals. I'll be mighty surprised if the focus gains are on par with these thick wool surrounds. With the composition of this dense wool, I don't suspect them to fall apart as time goes by either. Only time will tell on that one but I will say that on the very first velcro square, I place the soft square on the wool instead of the hard and when I went to take it off, the wool keep it's composure. that in itself impressed me on the quality of this wool. Oh yeah, thanks for adding the extra velcro just in case mistakes happen or someone wants to secure all 4 corners. As per instructions, I found velcroing the top 2 corners to be suffient.

Well that's about it. Another satisfied customer and permanent owner of diffractionbegone. I'll be happy to awnser any questions if I can.

Cheers,
Robin

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 Oct 2007, 12:20 am »

Just one thing, Robin. What Jim said was you are NOT getting the first reflection now, that's what's being removed from the signal. Use Dylon permanent fabric dye or equivalent if you must, and air dry. Thank you sharing your early appreciation. That is just the beginning, I am comfortable in saying. jim

satfrat · « **Reply #3 on:** 31 Oct 2007, 12:30 am »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 31 Oct 2007, 12:20 am

Just one thing, Robin. What Jim said was you are NOT getting the first reflection now, that's what's being removed from the signal. Use Dylon permanent fabric dye or equivalent if you must, and air dry. Thank you sharing your early appreciation. That is just the beginning, I am comfortable in saying. jim

Just goes to show how much I really understand about this stuff Jim

but I know what I like, and I like this a lot! I shall make a correction and thanks for pointing that out before I started getting hammered by those in the know.

Is that better Jim, said Robin?

Robin

topround · « **Reply #4 on:** 31 Oct 2007, 01:11 am »

somewhat instantaneously. BAAAMM, the Lorelei's were gone and I went from the middle row of my concert hall to like the 1st row. There was just more focus & more treble attack and even tho there was a deeper soundstage being created, the added focus drew me closer to the singer. The tweeter is much more defined now with a sharper clearer treble.

That is exactly what happened to me when I put the surrounds on my speakers, they just sort of disappeared, imaging improved with much more focus and depth.
High end tone improved as well, my tweeter sounded sweeter.

For those coming to the Nov rave you will get a taste first hand at what I mean.

I love this product, an affordable tweak that works!

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Nov 2007, 06:15 am »

top- Thanks for your reply. What brought glad to my heart was "I love this product". When I told Sat that's just the beginning . . I was referring to his and any buyer's listening experience, or, appreciation of it. You stated that your tweeter sounded sweeter and your high end tone improved. Amen. Your high end driver on your Haydn's propagates the leading edge and higher harmonics of your midrange in addition to purely high frequency info. Any dynamic speaker does to an extent. I predict your music as a whole will sound sweeter. And more natural. Your stage, too. That's what I think you will love.

Please, everyone who purchased, let me and your fellow members hear from you.

Jim N. · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Nov 2007, 08:32 am »

Received mine yesterday. Will take a few days to get a complete impression. Have to remove my neoprene rings and pop these on.

Adamay · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Nov 2007, 12:15 pm »

I've had my diffraction begone wool surrounds on my GR-Research Paradox 3's for a couple of days now and can report my evaluation. The improvements are really very impressive. Imaging is improved; as others have said, the speakers truly disappear now, and the change is quite dramatic. But I have to say that I'm even more impressed with the improvements in tone and clarity from the mid-range on up. Mids and highs are significantly sweeter and clearer, and tonal shadings and nuances are more evident. In other words, I'm hearing a more musical presentation, and this, to me, is even more important than the rather impressive improvements in imaging clarity. People sometimes speak of making a change that suddenly gets their system "dialed in" right, where everything snaps into place. This has been my experience with the wool surrounds: suddenly everthing improved, across the board. Like Satfrat above, I've spent way, way more to get this kind of an improvement. My only complaint is that the wool surrounds are not exactly pretty; if they came in black they'd blend in to nice looking speakers much better. In spite of that, they're staying on, as the improvements they bring make them a no-brainer. My system: Vecteur D-2 transport-->Altmann Attraction Dac-->Don Allen custom tube linestage-->Nuforce 8.02 mono's (tweaked out)-->GR-Research Paradox 3's. Ancillaries: various power conditioners; VH-Audio cottoned silver IC's & CheLa speaker cables; everything on sandboxes with appropriate custom footers, on a custom stand). The Paradox 3's have Focal inverted-dome titanium tweeters.

markC · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Nov 2007, 02:36 am »

How would one go about incorporating the D.B.G woolies to a speaker where the tweet and midwoof are close to or touching each other?

Adamay · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Nov 2007, 03:20 am »

My tweeter is sandwiched between two mid/woofers in an MTM configuration, with the mid/woofer frames actually overlapping the edges of the tweeter frame. Jim Goulding cut the woollies appropriately narrow and they don't run over onto the mid/woofs. He was very responsive to my measurements & comments on the configuration of the speaker face.

markC · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Nov 2007, 03:28 am »

Coool! I may just give them a try. I have open baffle 2-ways. I can't help but wonder what the effect would be in my application.

Huck · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Nov 2007, 07:39 pm »

Hi: I received my wool surrounds yesterday and I installed them right away and I did notice a difference for the good with everything "cold" at a low volume. Today I let everything "warm-up" for a few hours at low volume and then I did some serious listening. I never listen at a loud volume when all my gear has been sitting in a 64 degree basement listening room without warming things up,especially my integrated and speakers!
I must state up front that I could never really explain the difference between lower mid-range and upper mid-range as far as my hearing goes,or most other terms used, but I do know what I like and I like these wool surrounds! These things are the real deal and probly the first thing that I have tried that doesn't need a "burn-in" for X number of hours!. Everything seemed to open up,better sounding highs and there seems to be more "bottom-end". I am using the surrounds with PSB
Goldi's. I am using a powered sub to give the Goldi's a little bit more bottom,not that they need it and I had to back off on the gain a touch! I can't speak for others, but for me I know what I am getting right away, not like the clocks, stones, etc,etc,...Yeah you know what I mean. You should be able to hear a difference for the "good" right away!!! As they say...YMMV! . The best money I have spent so far!! Later, Huck

satfrat · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Nov 2007, 10:34 pm »

I couldn't agree more Huck,,,, some tweaks can be a real PIA. Jim's wool surrounds are just real,,,,period.

Robin

emac · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Nov 2007, 12:29 am »

Definitely interested in giving these a try. Anyone here try them with AV123's Strata Mini's? I emailed Jim about using these, and he felt they would work well. I just wanted to see if I could get anyone's opinion first.

Thanks.

satfrat · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Nov 2007, 01:02 am »

Hey, you can give them a try and send them back if the results aren't to your liking. Couple squares of wool shouldn't cost all that much to return. I feel these surrounds can't help but improve the imaging and soundstage of a surface mounted tweeter. But looking at a picture of the Strata Mini's, that tweeter's not flush mounted but instead in a mini wave guide of sorts. Unless someones actually tried Jim's surrounds on this loudspeaker, an honest opinion's kinda hard to give. I knew instantly mine weren't coming off. If that doesn't happen for you with these loudspeakers, you won't need 30 days to audition them. That's all I got.

Robin

emac · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Nov 2007, 01:27 am »

Quote from: satfrat on 9 Nov 2007, 01:02 am

Hey, you can give them a try and send them back if the results aren't to your liking. Couple squares of wool shouldn't cost all that much to return. I feel these surrounds can't help but improve the imaging and soundstage of a surface mounted tweeter. But looking at a picture of the Strata Mini's, that tweeter's not flush mounted but instead in a mini wave guide of sorts. Unless someones actually tried Jim's surrounds on this loudspeaker, an honest opinion's kinda hard to give. I knew instantly mine weren't coming off. If that doesn't happen for you with these loudspeakers, you won't need 30 days to audition them. That's all I got.

Robin

You hit the nail on the head with my concern about the tweeters not being flush mounted. I'm likely going to give them a shot anyway since shipping is so reasonable. I just wanted to see if anyone knew before I ordered.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Nov 2007, 01:45 am »

Mac- Take the 30 days. Why not? It took me that long to really begin to appreciate mine. It’s been 6 months for me and I’m still transfixed to my music. My stage, the instruments that occupy it, and my system have never sounded more whole, natural and real.

Huck- Thank you. It’s the best money I have spent so far, too. And the best part about it, it’s ongoing. I'm conscious of the improvement almost all the time.

satfrat · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Nov 2007, 01:49 am »

Don't listen to that hippie's ears, it takes miliseconds.

Jim N. · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Nov 2007, 03:52 am »

I've had them on my Loreleis for about a week now and have logged about 3-4 hours dedicated listening each night. I used neoprene rings for a couple of years and have GIK panels at my first reflection point. The improvement over the neoprene rings is subtle but worthwhile. Clearer, more coherent imaging. A bit more upper frequency detail. Improved imaging wide of the speakers. Not a major revelation in my case but a very nice refinement, easily worth the cost. Only negative is appearance. The neoprene rings blend in with the tweeter face while Jim's product does not.

It's a good product. The cuts are smooth. Jim does a good job. Could use a couple more velcro tabs IMO but those can be easily found. If you have no first refelection treatments you should realize a much greater benefit.

They are staying on my Loreleis.

PS- I long ago decided to not post first impressions. Too many "OMG- Blown away, they've been in use for 5 minutes" type reviews out there.

satfrat · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Nov 2007, 04:07 am »

Quote from: Jim N. on 10 Nov 2007, 03:52 am

I've had them on my Loreleis for about a week now and have logged about 3-4 hours dedicated listening each night. I used neoprene rings for a couple of years and have GIK panels at my first reflection point. The improvement over the neoprene rings is subtle but worthwhile. Clearer, more coherent imaging. A bit more upper frequency detail. Improved imaging wide of the speakers. Not a major revelation in my case but a very nice refinement, easily worth the cost. Only negative is appearance. The neoprene rings blend in with the tweeter face while Jim's product does not.

It's a good product. The cuts are smooth. Jim does a good job. Could use a couple more velcro tabs IMO but those can be easily found. If you have no first refelection treatments you should realize a much greater benefit.

They are staying on my Loreleis.

PS- I long ago decided to not post first impressions. Too many "OMG- Blown away, they've been in use for 5 minutes" type reviews out there.

You might want to consider dyeing them black Jim. That's what I'm going to do eventually. I'm giving them time to grow on me.

OMG,,,, sound like myself,,, I won't deny it. But I find that whatever I do with my system, I quickly adapt. First impressions are all I have because tomorrow, that impression is gone,,, for me. The only way to get that first impression back is to go back to square 1, live with that for a day and then try the tweak again. It's that way with most anything for me, especially power conditioning. I don't realize the improvement til I remove it. I hope that makes some sort of sense to you Jim but that's the way it is for this audiophool. aa

Robin