BRYStON BDA-1

NewBuyer · « **Reply #200 on:** 5 Jan 2009, 04:49 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 5 Jan 2009, 01:11 pm

Hi All,

One aspect I would like to point out is that an external DAC can 'reduce' jitter (on a percentage basis) coming from a source but it can not 'eliminate' it.

The higher the jitter coming from the source the higher it will be in the external DAC.

As to how much jitter it takes to negatively impose itself on the listener ... that's another question.

james

Hi James,

I trust the BDA-1 is designed to *greatly* reduce interface jitter and its effects, is this correct?

James Tanner · « **Reply #201 on:** 5 Jan 2009, 05:11 pm »

Quote from: NewBuyer on 5 Jan 2009, 04:49 pm

Quote from: James Tanner on 5 Jan 2009, 01:11 pm
Hi All,

One aspect I would like to point out is that an external DAC can 'reduce' jitter (on a percentage basis) coming from a source but it can not 'eliminate' it.

The higher the jitter coming from the source the higher it will be in the external DAC.

As to how much jitter it takes to negatively impose itself on the listener ... that's another question.

james

Hi James,

I trust the BDA-1 is designed to *greatly* reduce interface jitter and its effects, is this correct?

The simple answer is 'yes', but as usual nothing is that simple. It is 'Frequency' dependent and is a function of both the 'Digital Input Receiver' and the 'Sample Rate Converter'.

As I have said many times before though I think the success of our CD Player and now our DAC has much more to do with getting the overall package correct. Good digital design, good analog design, good power supply design etc. rather than singling out one specific number.

james

Sasha · « **Reply #202 on:** 5 Jan 2009, 05:46 pm »

Quote from: mdconnelly on 5 Jan 2009, 04:30 pm

Interesting thread... Sasha, I'm curious if you've taken a look at the Logitech Transporter compared to the SB3? Clearly SlimDevices, now Logitech, has been quite successful with it's SB3, Duet, Transporter and Boom. But, is their approach to streaming music viable for what you refer to as hi-end? How close is the Transporter to that?

I have to think that PC-based music streaming is still in it's infancy and am very hesitant to invest significant $$ just yet (although I have spent significant hours ripping & tagging CDs). Without doubt, many of us are streaming hard-disk based music one way or another and that invariably entails the need for a good DAC. Clearly the BDA-1 has set a new high-water mark. Can't wait to see where Bryston takes it as a preamp with volume control and analog inputs.

I have not tried Transporter, once I gave up on SB3 I did not look further in their line-up.
For some it may be relevant for some may not, but Logitech background is quite different from let’s say Bryston’s.
IMO Logitech’s approach is certainly viable, execution is not.
BTW, there are valid reasons why you would want BDA-1 in its present form and not cramped into pre-amp, this has been covered in a number of topics here.

NewBuyer · « **Reply #203 on:** 5 Jan 2009, 05:59 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 5 Jan 2009, 05:11 pm

Quote from: NewBuyer on 5 Jan 2009, 04:49 pm
Quote from: James Tanner on 5 Jan 2009, 01:11 pm
Hi All,

One aspect I would like to point out is that an external DAC can 'reduce' jitter (on a percentage basis) coming from a source but it can not 'eliminate' it.

The higher the jitter coming from the source the higher it will be in the external DAC.

As to how much jitter it takes to negatively impose itself on the listener ... that's another question.

james

Hi James,

I trust the BDA-1 is designed to *greatly* reduce interface jitter and its effects, is this correct?

The simple answer is 'yes', but as usual nothing is that simple. It is 'Frequency' dependent and is a function of both the 'Digital Input Receiver' and the 'Sample Rate Converter'.

As I have said many times before though I think the success of our CD Player and now our DAC has much more to do with getting the overall package correct. Good digital design, good analog design, good power supply design etc. rather than singling out one specific number.

james

Hi James,

And I still agree with you, just like before.

While obviously no current DAC can completely eliminate all jitter, I believe that good modern DACs can virtually minimize any potential jitter effects to trivial audible significance. For instance, I am thinking that a modern DAC like the BDA-1, with its pulse transformer isolation / better clock & PSU / better ASR / better output stages / and various other superior design aspects, would certainly be much less sensitive to digital sources than the older MF X-DAC V3 (with approx. 220 - 400 ps measured jitter) that Sasha used with an SB3. In fact, I'd wager the performance of the BDA-1 would not be audibly hindered at all when fed by an SB3, and would sound wonderful. In fact, I might just have to buy (or borrow) a BDA-1 and find out for myself!

KeithA · « **Reply #204 on:** 5 Jan 2009, 06:33 pm »

Quote from: NewBuyer on 5 Jan 2009, 05:59 pm

Hi James,

And I still agree with you, just like before.

While obviously no current DAC can completely eliminate all jitter, I believe that good modern DACs can virtually minimize any potential jitter effects to trivial audible significance. For instance, I am thinking that a modern DAC like the BDA-1, with its pulse transformer isolation / better clock & PSU / better ASR / better output stages / and various other superior design aspects, would certainly be much less sensitive to digital sources than the older MF X-DAC V3 (with approx. 220 - 400 ps measured jitter) that Sasha used with an SB3. In fact, I'd wager the performance of the BDA-1 would not be audibly hindered at all when fed by an SB3, and would sound wonderful (has anybody actually tried this combo?). In fact, I might just have to buy (or borrow) a BDA-1 and find out for myself!

NewBuyer

I have the BDA-1 and I run a Squeezebox Duet exclusively as my digital feed and it works wonderfully. I will concede that there's a possibility that the sound can be improved on with attention to detail and possibly better sources, but the BDA-1 and Squeezebox is a capable front end. My contention all along is that the improvements would be marginal (the old 80/20 rule at worst).

In late 2008 a friend of mine loaned me his Aurum Acoustics Integris CDP unit to try out as I contemplated that unit myself.

http://www.aurumacoustics.com/integris_cdp.html

That is a world class unit by any measure and regarded by some as the best CD reproduction out there. I compared that to my Duet feeding the SP1.7 at the time. Did it sound different? Yes and I'd say overall better than my setup at the time. It probably betters my BDA-1 DAC now (in ways). But even the differences then were not 'huge' for me. But I'd hazard a guess that what I consider minmal improvement some consider large. Nothing wrong with that. The main reason I didn't go with the Aurum unit was that it incorporated a CD player in its design (which i didn't want) and the unit was/is about $14,000 USD.

But even after returning the Aurum I was still 100% happy with the Duet/Bryston combo....and that combo is made a little better now with the BDA-1 instead of using the SP1.7 as a DAC. My buddy would rather part with a kidney before he parted with the Aurum....and that's cool

This is all that I've been saying all along....the Squeezebox into the BDA-1 is a respectable unit. Maybe not the best, but cetainly not a lost cause from what I've heard.

Keith

James Tanner · « **Reply #205 on:** 6 Jan 2009, 10:48 am »

DEALER FEEDBACK:

Sent:Mon 1/5/2009 11:31 PM
From: D Ellis [dle.design@verizon.net]

Hi JT-

Here's some Bryston BDA-1 listening observations I would like to share:

From a technical perspective, I really didn't expect the new BDA-1 external DAC & an 'ol CD player combination to perform much differently than my previous top rated CD player. Well, my listening tests tell me differently. Essentially, the BDA-1 allows more of the emotional realism of music to come through. In spades...

Here's three independent observations:
- One listener ask me if I had an additional speaker in the middle because she was hearing so much sound between the two speakers. By the way, she has taken several courses in acoustic guitars and has a young set of musically trained ears.
- Another lady listened to one of her favorite songs and ended up in tears.
- Another listener said that he never heard the system sound this "real" before. Of special note, he has listened to the system in various configurations over the past few years and never said anything as complementary as this remark. Please note this listener is a hard core analog & tube warrior!

The well known Bryston "purity of sound" is in full force here with very natural tonality filled with rich harmonic density. The three dimensional "bloom" is especially noteworthy.

All music played through the BDA-1 has more liveness & presence that gets one much closer to the musical event. Interestingly, even some of my old dry sounding pop music like Bob Dylan and etc. have come to life. It is amazing how much more musically relate information is being retrieved via the BDA-1.

In summary, the BDA-1 external DAC is truly an outstanding overachiever, by any standards!

Regards-
DE

denjo · « **Reply #206 on:** 6 Jan 2009, 03:07 pm »

Sasha

Out of curioisty, could you share with us the nature and type of your system? I reckon one needs to have an extremely revealing system to be able to hear the audible differences, however slight these differences may be.

Best Regards
Dennis

Sasha · « **Reply #207 on:** 6 Jan 2009, 04:07 pm »

Quote from: denjo on 6 Jan 2009, 03:07 pm

Sasha

Out of curioisty, could you share with us the nature and type of your system? I reckon one needs to have an extremely revealing system to be able to hear the audible differences, however slight these differences may be.

Best Regards
Dennis

Last time I played with my PC and determined that even the claimed jitter of 150ps on Lynx was clearly audible and was messing up LF reproduction, in comparison to the same track played from the tray, the system was PMC IB2, Bryston 7B SST, BP-26, Wadia 581i SE.
Last time I played with SB3 and heard significant difference between its SPDIF/TosLink and SPDIF on a number of low end players, SB3 being the worst of all, I think (but not sure, it was some time ago) system was PMC IB2, Bryston 7B SST (or 4B SST or Linar class A), BP-26, MF X-DAC V3 and Assemblage 2.6, Yamaha 2500, Rotel 1072.

ajayrav · « **Reply #208 on:** 6 Jan 2009, 04:40 pm »

I too hear a difference between my Duet (with and without the Channel Islands PS), my Marantz SA8260 and Arcam DV 79 players used as transports. The Marantz and Arcam are close, with the Duet noticeably inferior. Both are being fed into a Musical Fidelity triple stack (X-DACv3, X-psuV3 and X10V3 tube buffer) via spdif. My amp is a PrimaLuna Dialogue 1 and speakers are ACI Sapphire XL. This is a decent, but hardly uber hi-end set-up; still it is resolving enough to show the differences conclusively. The convenience of the Duet can't be beat, though! Time to get it modded....

Ajay

mdconnelly · « **Reply #209 on:** 6 Jan 2009, 05:18 pm »

Ajay, can you comment on the Duet with the CI PS versus stock - particularly when using an external Dac rather than that of the Duet?

danman · « **Reply #210 on:** 7 Jan 2009, 02:06 pm »

Please excuse my lack of knowledge here but I was wondering about this product for a while now. I own the Cambridge Audio 840C, 4B-ST, BP-20 and Martin Logan Quests. The reason I kept the 840C so far is because it is a fantastic sounding player for the money and also because I am not sure what the future holds for CD's.

My question is, would a DAC like this be a good add on even though my player already upsamples on its own or is this product better for other digital inputs? As I said, I am completely in the dark with these types of products.

niels · « **Reply #211 on:** 7 Jan 2009, 03:23 pm »

I believe the dac in your player is the same as in the Cambridge DacMagic, and I have only heard positive things about that.
But, I believe you might experience added resolution, "blackness" and a better bass with the Bryston dac. Some will tell you its "night and day", but I am a bit careful with statements since the law of diminished returns certainly counts for audio....

But I have another question, to those with a Transporter. How do you experience the difference between the Transporter dac sound and the Bryston dac sound?

konut · « **Reply #212 on:** 7 Jan 2009, 03:46 pm »

Quote from: niels on 7 Jan 2009, 03:23 pm

But I have another question, to those with a Transporter. How do you experience the difference between the Transporter dac sound and the Bryston dac sound?

Great question!

danman · « **Reply #213 on:** 7 Jan 2009, 03:55 pm »

Thank you Niels, I am also not a true believer in night and day differences in certain areas of audio. However, when I upgraded to Bryston the sound was very different to what I previously had and obviously the change was significant to me. Just wondering if I would also have the "significant" change as well with a DAC?

Yes the 840C player is very good but I have listened to the Bryston and liked it more just a question of what the future holds for CD's as I said.

SteveLim · « **Reply #214 on:** 8 Jan 2009, 05:24 am »

Hi ,

Would there be any significant difference between what upstream player (be it CD or DVD or universal) is used with the DAC-1 ?
Let's say , comparing between 2 respectable CD-players or DVD-players etc.

Thanks.

dthoms · « **Reply #215 on:** 8 Jan 2009, 10:49 am »

SteveLim, I have a Meridian and $25 Yamaha plugged into the BDA-1. I like the sound better from the Meridian, but again, it is very slight. Company would not be able to tell the difference. With that said, I need to replace my cables going to the amp, so my cables might be the "field leveler". Trust me the cables I have on there are CHEAP. I just order some cables and they will be here next week. I will comment again once this is in place.

James Tanner · « **Reply #216 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 01:16 pm »

HI All,

Back from Vegas hi-fi show.

Got a terrific review on the BDA-1 from Hi-Fi Choice Magazine while I was away.

I have the PDF of the complete review - 7 Meg- email me if you want a copy.

5 Stars - and we got the front cover!

james

KeithA · « **Reply #217 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 02:42 pm »

I guess I've had my BDA-1 for almost 2 weeks now. haven't had much time to sit back and listen to it as this is a busy time at work.

However, I had music on for a couple of hours last night while I was working (at 2:00 am). It sounded good to me on music I was familiar with when using the SP1.7 as a DAC.

It's a solid little piece of gear too.

keith

James Tanner · « **Reply #218 on:** 15 Jan 2009, 10:39 pm »

HI All,

Have an English translation of a review on the BDA-1 from the French Magazine 'Sound and Image'.
PDF- is 2M
Email me at jamestanner@bryston.com

james

bob stern · « **Reply #219 on:** 16 Jan 2009, 01:42 am »

I'm wondering whether the following has been experienced by anyone else and whether it is a cause for concern.

I've been experimenting with two different transports, so I've been turning the transports off and on and connecting and disconnecting them from the BDA-1. I probably have caused glitches at the digital audio input of the BDA-1 due to my turning the transport power on and off while the BDA-1 is in active mode (ie, not standby). Occasionally this causes the BDA-1 to get into a state in which it does not play anything, the sample rate LED's are all dark, and -- this is the weird part -- it ignores all presses of the Standby and input select buttons. It works fine after I remove the power plug for a few seconds.