ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!

ted_b · « **Reply #860 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 03:28 pm »

As some of you know I obtained a pair of the rare NOS Russian 6H8C octal tubes (6SN7 variety) from a seller here on AC. They arrived this week and are breaking in as I type this. Several of you wanted to get my first impressions, so here they are (caveat: the tubes are NOS and have less than 100 hrs on them):
Modwright Transporter with EML rectifier
Modwright dual mono LS 36.5 with dual metal base GZ34's in the PS and DR's in the line stage

Every good chef needs the best ingredients to create world-class tastes/cuisine. He or she might use spices from each end of the sweetness continuum, and might want to get his/her hands on that one very unique flavor that, although not used often, can be used when things get too yin or yang. The metal base Russian 6H8C is one of those tools in audio. From what I can tell it is very very good at what it does....one of the most detailed of 6SN7 tubes I've heard yet, but that detail comes with stark neutrality, almost a solid state like feeling, as if you took the best transistors and put them in the path. This tube is the savior for those systems where it's gotten too bloomy, too tubey, too much midrange wetness. It's a drying agent that has an incredible bandwidth. The soundstage is not very wide yet (but I blame that on limited break-in, mostly). I will report back by next weekend, but I've pulled the tube for now....my TP/36.5/Spectron siugnal path does NOT need a drying agent...especially since I had to give back to David my favorite 36.5 power cord, the incredibly warm yet incredibly detailed non-ferrite Cardas Golden Ref (one is on order). I'm running the wonderful RCA VT-231's and when we swapped them back in last night the sound was obvious.

So...if cfchew is looking for a 6SN7 for his all-tube system (ARC Ref 3, BAT, etc.) this is one to start with. It's detail is quite amazing. I may end up keeping my pair, cuz you never know; sometime we work so hard toward the neutral middle (for me, the warm side of neutral) and before you know it you've overshot the sound you love. This is one tool to bring it back.

Edit: 5:12pm. OK, I worked it out. These are the rectangular holed version. I am swapping them for the four round holed version, said to be a significant step up yet. Stay tuned.

cfchew · « **Reply #861 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 05:12 pm »

Hi Ted,

I was wondering if your Russian 6H8C tubes are labelled "1578" on the glass. There apparently are at least a couple different types of NOS Russian 6H8C. The 1578 tubes seem to be the most sought after and have multiple round holes in the plates running vertically. I have not tried these in my BAT amp but have heard that they are among the best/competitive with TS Round Plate, Sylvania metal base, etc. I puchased some other type of Russian metal base 6H8C which are not labelled 1578 and have a different plate structure, with a couple rectangular holes in each plate. They were purchased from an Audiogon seller before I did any further research, and at least in my power amp they didn't sound like anything special, seemed less detailed and airy, more closed in than the Sylvania tubes I normally use. I am seeing these on Ebay many listings right now.

Again, I am waiting for the octal adapters to become available before I have a chance to roll 6SN7 in the Transporter.

So far after some more days gone by, I haven't changed anything else, the EML Mesh Plate has been a major improvement in the "liveness" of the sound and I still really like the 6N1P's. I am still waiting on some older 6N1P from Russia to arrive. I was thinking about ordering trying 6N6P at someone's suggestion but heard they are not as detailed as 6N1P? I think the detail in my system right now is just right.

-Cliff (cfchew)

ted_b · « **Reply #862 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 06:06 pm »

Cliff,
After speaking with Brent Jesse I realize I have the wrong tubes; i.e. not the ones he was crowing about, although mine do have metal bases.. I have requested the correct ones, which according to Brent (and yourself) are the ones with the four round holes up the vertical wall of the plate. Mine have two rectangular holes and are considered average. They sound good, as I said, but not what I went for. I can only imagine what the correct tube detail is like. Stay tuned.

rydenfan · « **Reply #863 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 06:14 pm »

Ted, what do the good Russian ones cost?

ted_b · « **Reply #864 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 06:23 pm »

My seller was showing both types in his photos (no change in $$) so I'm asking that a swap be done.

rydenfan · « **Reply #865 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 06:26 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 27 Feb 2009, 06:23 pm

My seller was showing both types in his photos (no change in $$) so I'm asking that a swap be done.

AH! That makes sense, cool. Let us know how it works out. Right now you would have to try my Tung Sol's from my dead hands

, but I look forward to your thoughts on these.

zybar · « **Reply #866 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 06:34 pm »

Quote from: rydenfan on 27 Feb 2009, 06:14 pm

Ted, what do the good Russian ones cost?

Looking at Brent's website, looks like they cost $200/pair but he is out of stock.

We do have an AC member (Tyrro) selling pairs for $150 here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64843.msg598782;topicseen#new

George

ted_b · « **Reply #867 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 06:36 pm »

Tyrro is a good guy. He let me swap for the round holes version, although he claims the metal bases are all the same (i.e they are NOT the rectangular holed black bases, they metal bases). I'll be able to confirm that, assuming you'll buy my memory of one vs the other. It's always difficult if you don't a/b realtime.
Ted

mikel51 · « **Reply #868 on:** 28 Feb 2009, 01:23 am »

I bought some on EBAY. Not here yet, but the look like the square holes.....oh well, should have waited until I heard all of your comments....i don't even have an octal adapter, but then again, these might be good at one of the 3 positions in my BAT AMP

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:31&Item=400032337732

Philistine · « **Reply #869 on:** 28 Feb 2009, 02:13 am »

These look very interesting:

http://grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z

Could they be the 6SN7 equivalent to the Emission Labs 5U4G, updated manufacturing technology and QC?

Group buy opportunity ends tomorrow:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64342.msg599022;topicseen#new

Anyone feeling brave?

zybar · « **Reply #870 on:** 28 Feb 2009, 03:58 am »

Quote from: Philistine on 28 Feb 2009, 02:13 am

These look very interesting:

http://grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z

Could they be the 6SN7 equivalent to the Emission Labs 5U4G, updated manufacturing technology and QC?

Group buy opportunity ends tomorrow:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64342.msg599022;topicseen#new

Anyone feeling brave?

I'll stick with the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates.

George

rydenfan · « **Reply #871 on:** 28 Feb 2009, 01:11 pm »

Phil, if you want to buy them I would be happy to listen to them

Philistine · « **Reply #872 on:** 28 Feb 2009, 02:04 pm »

I feel like Roger Rabbit in the scene when he's in the wall cavity and Judge Doom is tapping out 'shave and a haircut.............'

On a more serious note I've obtained the group buy price details and, if anyone is interested, now would be a good time to buy them.
When we started the rectifier quest all the forum regulars (myself included) were going down the path of vintage tubes, while some of the more adventurous owners were exploring the EML 5U4G. No one knows all the reasons why the EML tube are so good, but it's probably a combination of: design, materials technology (glass and alloys), improvements in vacuum technology and modern QC techniques. When I compare the coveted metal base GZ34, and EML 5U4G, with the Tung Sol round plate 6SN7 and the Shuguang 6SN7, I see potential similar comparisons in design/materials/QC.

So, this could be a 'find' or it could be a 'stinker' - am I ready to press the button?

funkmonkey · « **Reply #873 on:** 28 Feb 2009, 09:49 pm »

Hey guys, I thought I would give a short report on my recent rolling experiences, even though it is nothing new to many in this thread. First let me start by saying that I went from stock tubes in my LS-36.5 to a early 60's fat base GZ34, and then to a later 60's "Valvo" version of the same mullard rectifier tube. The difference between the fat base and the Valvo are very subtle to my ears, and very hard to articulate. I have not decided which I prefer, but either one could live happily in the 36.5. I dropped a pair of DRs into the signal tube spots and they will remain there, the increased punch, and dynamics that they give would be hard to let go. I started with stock tubes in the Transporter until I settled on the Valvo + DR combo in the 36.5, and then tried the fat base in the Transporter. For me, there was just too much midrange with two Mullard-GZ34's in the chain, so after a few days I tried out a 1964 Tung Sol 5AS4 (5U4GB equivalent (I think)) and that worked great, gave me more sparkle in the highs, and a deeper bass response, removing the somewhat over ripe mids I had with the two GZ34's. I left the 5AS4 in place and rolled in my RCA clear tops, and then the Sovetek 6H30's (that came with my LS) for some comparison with the stock 6N1P (also Sovtek). Well, the 6N1P's are certainly the most detailed of the three, with the Mullard I think they were a good match because they tended to balance out the mid richness a bit. The Clear Tops sounded pretty good with the 5AS4, but I still wasn't happy with the over-all presentation. My favorite signal tubes with the Tung Sol 5AS4 turned out to be the 6H30's (I have not tried the DPs in both the TP and the LS yet). This combo brought the best balance through the range to my ears, and in my room, but still I had a couple more rectifiers to try out. I left the 6H30's in place and tried out the Rogers 5U4G that I got for free. It's hard to say what I felt about that tube because I was so paranoid about it that I pulled it almost right away (purely a psychological thing, because it seems to work just fine). I would like to try a Tung Sol 5U4G (ST) but haven't acquired one yet, though as far as I can tell it is virtually the same as the Rogers tube that I have. Down to the last rectifier that I own, and that is a HW CV378. This tube has all the qualities that I liked in the 5AS4, but with a better soundstage, and a touch more bass. David has covered the qualities of the HW very well in the past, and I have to say that it has not been removed since I put it in place (aside from initial burn-in). I tried the 6n1p with the HW, and felt that it was a little too crisp on the highs, and I lost some of the deep bass I was getting before. Once I rolled in the RCA cleartops things sort of balanced out again. This is the combo that I am listening to right now, and I am pretty happy with it, but not completely satisfied. I feel like I am missing a little in the mid-bass area, not sure if it is the tube combo or the room, or what. I know the HT3's aren't lacking there, unless there is some sort of suck out with the new woofer that hasn't come to light (Dennis' graphs only go down to 200Hz). It could also be my hearing. Either way I want to try out some Tung Sol 6CG7's or perhaps a pair of 1950's Sylvania 6CG7's, or black plate RCAs... all are said to be warmer tubes, and I am hoping that this translates into a little more bass guitar presence, and not a loss of detail in the high end. (if anyone has any matched pairs of these they want unload... hint, hint) The 6SN7 varieties might give me what I am looking for as well, but I am not quite ready to go there.

The HW CV378 + RCA clear-top combo is the best that I have found so far (I think that is the same thing David had settled on before going octal), with the Tung Sol 5AS4 + 6H30 coming in second. I thought I should contribute a little with my findings since you guys, and this thread, have been such a great help in clearing my wallet of any extra money that enters it.

Thanks

Some recordings I found to sound better with different tubes, my findings were based on general listening satisfaction.

Cheers,
Greg

zybar · « **Reply #874 on:** 1 Mar 2009, 03:27 am »

Still running the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates via Wayne's (Bolder Cable) adapters, but I thought I would post a few pics.

Here is an updated picture of the system from the listening spot:

George

Philistine · « **Reply #875 on:** 1 Mar 2009, 04:34 am »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 28 Feb 2009, 09:49 pm

Hey guys, I thought I would give a short report on my recent rolling experiences, even though it is nothing new to many in this thread. First let me start by saying that I went from stock tubes in my LS-36.5 to a early 60's fat base GZ34, and then to a later 60's "Valvo" version of the same mullard rectifier tube. The difference between the fat base and the Valvo are very subtle to my ears, and very hard to articulate. I have not decided which I prefer, but either one could live happily in the 36.5. I dropped a pair of DRs into the signal tube spots and they will remain there, the increased punch, and dynamics that they give would be hard to let go. I started with stock tubes in the Transporter until I settled on the Valvo + DR combo in the 36.5, and then tried the fat base in the Transporter. For me, there was just too much midrange with two Mullard-GZ34's in the chain, so after a few days I tried out a 1964 Tung Sol 5AS4 (5U4GB equivalent (I think)) and that worked great, gave me more sparkle in the highs, and a deeper bass response, removing the somewhat over ripe mids I had with the two GZ34's. I left the 5AS4 in place and rolled in my RCA clear tops, and then the Sovetek 6H30's (that came with my LS) for some comparison with the stock 6N1P (also Sovtek). Well, the 6N1P's are certainly the most detailed of the three, with the Mullard I think they were a good match because they tended to balance out the mid richness a bit. The Clear Tops sounded pretty good with the 5AS4, but I still wasn't happy with the over-all presentation. My favorite signal tubes with the Tung Sol 5AS4 turned out to be the 6H30's (I have not tried the DPs in both the TP and the LS yet). This combo brought the best balance through the range to my ears, and in my room, but still I had a couple more rectifiers to try out. I left the 6H30's in place and tried out the Rogers 5U4G that I got for free. It's hard to say what I felt about that tube because I was so paranoid about it that I pulled it almost right away (purely a psychological thing, because it seems to work just fine). I would like to try a Tung Sol 5U4G (ST) but haven't acquired one yet, though as far as I can tell it is virtually the same as the Rogers tube that I have. Down to the last rectifier that I own, and that is a HW CV378. This tube has all the qualities that I liked in the 5AS4, but with a better soundstage, and a touch more bass. David has covered the qualities of the HW very well in the past, and I have to say that it has not been removed since I put it in place (aside from initial burn-in). I tried the 6n1p with the HW, and felt that it was a little too crisp on the highs, and I lost some of the deep bass I was getting before. Once I rolled in the RCA cleartops things sort of balanced out again. This is the combo that I am listening to right now, and I am pretty happy with it, but not completely satisfied. I feel like I am missing a little in the mid-bass area, not sure if it is the tube combo or the room, or what. I know the HT3's aren't lacking there, unless there is some sort of suck out with the new woofer that hasn't come to light (Dennis' graphs only go down to 200Hz). It could also be my hearing. Either way I want to try out some Tung Sol 6CG7's or perhaps a pair of 1950's Sylvania 6CG7's, or black plate RCAs... all are said to be warmer tubes, and I am hoping that this translates into a little more bass guitar presence, and not a loss of detail in the high end. (if anyone has any matched pairs of these they want unload... hint, hint) The 6SN7 varieties might give me what I am looking for as well, but I am not quite ready to go there.

The HW CV378 + RCA clear-top combo is the best that I have found so far (I think that is the same thing David had settled on before going octal), with the Tung Sol 5AS4 + 6H30 coming in second. I thought I should contribute a little with my findings since you guys, and this thread, have been such a great help in clearing my wallet of any extra money that enters it. Thanks

Some recordings I found to sound better with different tubes, my findings were based on general listening satisfaction.

Cheers,
Greg

Greg, in the spirit of emptying your wallet further my recommendation would be to get the EML 5U4G locked in your TP first of all and use this as the foundation to explore your existing stash of signal tubes. The reason I recommend this is because the EML gives all the individual benefits of the other rectifier tubes in one package, and then adds an additional dimension the others don't have. This dimension is a non-digital, organic feel that transforms the Transporter.
Not the answer you were looking for but I feel this would be the optimum solution.
Phil

Philistine · « **Reply #876 on:** 1 Mar 2009, 04:36 am »

Quote from: Philistine on 28 Feb 2009, 02:13 am

These look very interesting:

http://grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z

Could they be the 6SN7 equivalent to the Emission Labs 5U4G, updated manufacturing technology and QC?

Group buy opportunity ends tomorrow:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64342.msg599022;topicseen#new

Anyone feeling brave?

I chickened out in the end.

But came oh so close to pulling the trigger

tdangelo · « **Reply #877 on:** 1 Mar 2009, 04:46 am »

my 2 cents about rolling the Transporter.. I've been using the Mullard GZ37(CV378) with the RCA cleartops and have liked that combo for a couple months. I got the EML 5U4G last Monday and have about 100 hrs on it so far. I've used the EML with the RCA and although it sounded good but I felt it was a little soft up top. My system is pretty much all tubed and is very smooth but a little too smooth with the RCA. Today I tried the EML with the 6n1p and found I got the detailed high end I like and the warm organic sound of the EML. I like it

I had some non audiophile friends over tonight and they both prefered the EML 6n1p combo. It was fun to see that non audiophiles could actually hear a difference and have a preference

I have some 6n6p's coming next week and will give those a whirl. I think I'll get some 6sn7 adapters and give that a try too.

funkmonkey · « **Reply #878 on:** 1 Mar 2009, 05:20 am »

Quote from: Philistine on 1 Mar 2009, 04:34 am

in the spirit of emptying your wallet further my recommendation would be to get the EML 5U4G locked in your TP first of all and use this as the foundation to explore your existing stash of signal tubes. The reason I recommend this is because the EML gives all the individual benefits of the other rectifier tubes in one package, and then adds an additional dimension the others don't have. This dimension is a non-digital, organic feel that transforms the Transporter.
Not the answer you were looking for but I feel this would be the optimum solution.
Phil

Thanks Phil, I would actually love to try it out, but I just don't have the space available for that gigantic tube. The HW barely fits the space I have, and (for the time being at least) I'm limited by that. I would be very pleased, and first in line, if EML decided to produce a smaller version, sized more like the traditional ST tubes... and if they made a GZ34 I would try that out in the LS-36.5. Oh well, I'll figure something out.

By the time I can try an EML you guys will have found the next Holy Grail anyway.

Cheers,
Greg

Philistine · « **Reply #879 on:** 1 Mar 2009, 12:33 pm »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 1 Mar 2009, 05:20 am

Quote from: Philistine on 1 Mar 2009, 04:34 am
in the spirit of emptying your wallet further my recommendation would be to get the EML 5U4G locked in your TP first of all and use this as the foundation to explore your existing stash of signal tubes. The reason I recommend this is because the EML gives all the individual benefits of the other rectifier tubes in one package, and then adds an additional dimension the others don't have. This dimension is a non-digital, organic feel that transforms the Transporter.
Not the answer you were looking for but I feel this would be the optimum solution.
Phil

Thanks Phil, I would actually love to try it out, but I just don't have the space available for that gigantic tube. The HW barely fits the space I have, and (for the time being at least) I'm limited by that. I would be very pleased, and first in line, if EML decided to produce a smaller version, sized more like the traditional ST tubes... and if they made a GZ34 I would try that out in the LS-36.5. Oh well, I'll figure something out. By the time I can try an EML you guys will have found the next Holy Grail anyway.

Cheers,
Greg

Forgot about your height restriction Greg, as you mention it looks like the 6CG7 and 6FQ7 are the principal options open to you at this stage and are also probably your best bet. I have some very cheap RCA black plate 6CG7's that work well and a cryoed pair of 6FQ7's, both of these have the same family sound and come closest to what you're looking for. The only caveat being that I've not tried the HW yet so have no idea how they interact with it.
A wild card is the 6N6P, again not sure as to how it pairs with the HW but it's only a few $. At this stage though it looks like you'll be heading off into 6SN7 territory to get the balance you're looking for.

In the meantime, if you want to send me a PM I can loan the tubes I mention out to you.