ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!

ted_b · « **Reply #900 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 04:18 pm »

Yes, the TS round plates go for anywhere from $290 (lucky Ebay win) to $450 (matched pair from reputable dealers like Brent Jesse). They are great, but expensive. When i first brought up the idea of using an octal adapter to open up the gene pool of tubes for rolling I knew there were some great 6SN7's out there, but it was George (Zybar) who first brought up the TS round plates as being the king...although at the time we never really took it seriously. Well, fast forward a few months and we're all going to that place!! I guess for new tube rollers it seems like a lot of money, but it's almost a guaranteed lock. Put it this way: spend $60 a pair on 8-12 different sets of 6CG7's (let alone 6SN7's) and others..then add up the total costs. Yeah, the discovery is part of the fun, but not the best part.

rydenfan · « **Reply #901 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 05:00 pm »

Too bad we didnt orchestrate a group buy on the Tung Sols from the Greece seller

I think we have bought quite a few pairs from him over the last month or so

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #902 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 05:10 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 2 Mar 2009, 04:18 pm

Yeah, the discovery is part of the fun, but not the best part.

Boy, I'm glad to hear you say that, Ted. With 46 pages of posts, and over 30K reads this thread is by far the most popular in this circle. But each time I check in on it I can't help but wonder, jeez, do these guys ever listen to any music?!?

I completely agree; the fun part comes when you are not longer listening to components or some aspect of them. I am reminded of that lately in comparing components. I'm envious of you guys who have the time to tinker this way. At heart though, I tend to be more of a set it and forget it type, and prefer to spend the little spare time I have enjoying the music. I've done my share of tube rolling and tweaking, for sure, but it usually doesn't last very long, and I guess I don't have the mindset to continue to relentlessly pursue squeezing every drop of performance from a piece of gear, especially Dan's stuff which is so great right out of the box. That's why I love folks like Dan who design by listening, and have essentially done that for us from the beginning. Seriously, my hat's off to you guys who are doing the same here with this tube rolling thread - it is a tremendous resource! Thank you for sharing your efforts and resources here.

Berto · « **Reply #903 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 2 Mar 2009, 04:18 pm

Yes, the TS round plates go for anywhere from $290 (lucky Ebay win) to $450 (matched pair from reputable dealers like Brent Jesse). They are great, but expensive. When i first brought up the idea of using an octal adapter to open up the gene pool of tubes for rolling I knew there were some great 6SN7's out there, but it was George (Zybar) who first brought up the TS round plates as being the king...although at the time we never really took it seriously. Well, fast forward a few months and we're all going to that place!! I guess for new tube rollers it seems like a lot of money, but it's almost a guaranteed lock. Put it this way: spend $60 a pair on 8-12 different sets of 6CG7's (let alone 6SN7's) and others..then add up the total costs. Yeah, the discovery is part of the fun, but not the best part.

  I just got my TS rounds today from Greece, luv the boxes marked 1944, they look just like the pics, hope I can get some adaptors soon. Also got a pair of the RCA VT-231's, paid 350$ for both pairs, so there are deals to be had out there. Actually saw a pair of Ebay TS rounds auction for a Lil under $200 w/o shipping. So if your patient (which I'm not overly) you can find some good deals.
  I'm Excited to hear about your word on the "right" Russian tubes, if they can hang with the TS's especially. (like the Brent Jesse review).
  As you alluded to, its more important to buy one expensive pair of tubes and have the right ones, then trying several pairs of inferior ones. All this prob translates into me prob having a pair of NOS RCA VT-231 6SN7s for sale, no worries since they go for up too a $175 a pair from US sellers. Might keep'em since my Amp is currently running quad of same tubes, or might sell all RCA's if the "right" Russian tubes can beat them. TS's I'm assuming are keepers but TBD!

jwes · « **Reply #904 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 2 Mar 2009, 04:18 pm

Yes, the TS round plates go for anywhere from $290 (lucky Ebay win) to $450 (matched pair from reputable dealers like Brent Jesse). They are great, but expensive. When i first brought up the idea of using an octal adapter to open up the gene pool of tubes for rolling I knew there were some great 6SN7's out there, but it was George (Zybar) who first brought up the TS round plates as being the king...although at the time we never really took it seriously. Well, fast forward a few months and we're all going to that place!! I guess for new tube rollers it seems like a lot of money, but it's almost a guaranteed lock. Put it this way: spend $60 a pair on 8-12 different sets of 6CG7's (let alone 6SN7's) and others..then add up the total costs. Yeah, the discovery is part of the fun, but not the best part.

Good points, all. Thanks Ken, Ted, David, George, Phil, et. al. Today's purchase was from John (Greece) - 1940's TS round plate NOS (they look perfect in the picture), for a touch over $300. And off we go!....

Jim

JerryH · « **Reply #905 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 11:04 pm »

I would be interested in a group buy from Greece if anyone else is. I've got Raytheon VT 231's on the way and got pretty decent deal that I can probably unload easily. I agree it's better to do it right the first time, but I still want to find the bargain gem. I may be able to loan a pair of the Raytheons to someone that has the Tung Sol's. I know it's a forgone conclusion who the king is, but I really like hearing impressions and comparisons.

brontotx · « **Reply #906 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 01:52 am »

All I can say to everyone here is THANKS

! Kudos especially to Ted, George, Phil, and Rydenfan - your enthusiasm is contagious. I'm sure there are others on this thread that I owe thanks to, but these guys are the ones I can recall at the moment as experimenting the most and generously sharing their findings/opinions.

I have been following this thread for awhile and have been clandestinely purchasing the EML, octal adapters, and Tung Sol round plates (I needed to be clandestine/quick before ya'll bought everything up

). The last parts were the octal adapters and they arrived yesterday. This combo has it ALL - tone, presence, sound stage, and detail - in SPADES! This "holy grail" transporter tube combo has really pushed my system to another level - it has never sounded so musical ("live" is the best way to describe it) and engaging. For anyone balking at the price, forget about it and JUST DO IT (really, what is $800 - current economy notwithstanding - in tubes and adapters compared to what you have in the modded transporter and possibly your spare tubes and/or cables?).

FWIW, I don't have the "full monty" Modwright transporter - I had my transporter modded a little over a year ago and used the stock tubes up until a few months ago when I got some RCA clear tops based on the pre-EML posts in this thread. The clear tops were an improvement and the EML was a huge leap forward, but the octal adapters and Tung Sol round plates pushed it way over the top. I also don't have any tubes in the rest of my system, which consists of a PS Audio GCC integrated amp, Duevel Bella Luna Diamante omni-directional speakers, and some other sources (yes, it is difficult to confess on a modwright transporter thread

, but I have a Rega P9/Dynavector XX-2/PS Audio GCPH vinyl rig too).

Again, I sincerely appreciate the "research" and "boundary pushing" by everyone here - you guys made it simple by being so willing to share your experiments, experiences, and opinions. I also do not consider myself a "tube roller" or system tweaker, although I did buy the Herbie's Tube dampers based on what I read here (I also have a thing for titanium). I am more of a "set and enjoy" kind of person and I know that I will be VERY happy for a long time with the current combo. Finally, sincere thanks are owed to George at tubesusa and Wayne at Bolder - both were consummate professionals in my dealings with them.

Mark

Philistine · « **Reply #907 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 02:26 am »

Glad you like the EML/6SN7's Mark and thanks for the feedback, this combination really makes the TP something special. I was asked recently about the Hyper-Drive mod and checked the notes I made at the time I first heard it with my current perception, they correlated. When you get the chance the Hyper-Drive is well worth the round trip to Amboy and back.

Rolling tubes has been an interesting, and sometimes costly journey, with the EML/6SN7 has the journey ended? Whatever the answer it's a great place to stop and enjoy the music.

zybar · « **Reply #908 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 02:33 am »

It is my pleasure to provide some small input to this thread and to hopefully help others by sharing my experiences.

I know I have certainly learned far more from this 46 page thread than I have contributed...so a big THANK YOU to everybody who has posted and shared their thoughts along the way.

George

ted_b · « **Reply #909 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 03:00 am »

As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).

Thank You!

OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.

Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!!

rydenfan · « **Reply #910 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 03:32 am »

This thread, and the members that drive it, is certainly a bright spot for me in these otherwise troubling times, so thanks to all of you.

I do find it fascinating that this current tube compliment seems to be a pretty universal combination. Amazing with all the different ears, tastes, systems, etc. that this would be the case. Factor in the fact that it is a current production rectifier and octal pinned signal tubes with adapters and it just becomes all the more interesting. It really is pretty incredible. I guess I will have to go back to my HW GZ37 just to be different

Berto · « **Reply #911 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 03:46 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 4 Mar 2009, 03:00 am

As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).

Thank You!

OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.

Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!!

   Yeah I'm luving my full monty MTWP with EML, gotta scramble for those adaptors asap. My TS round plates (after 50 plus years of being unused) are lonely to say the least and its about freakin time they sing like I'm dreaming they only can! Cant wait to hear about the 5 hole Russians, vs American TS rounds. Will it be a bigtime fight Ala Brock Lesnar vs Fedor Emelianenko (for all you UFC fans ) or will it be another overated knockout.
   No one has yet to mention the Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys. Someone did mention the British Mullard/Brimar Ec333(3chk) and mentioned they liked them alot although if i recall they did not test them in a MWTP as of yet.
   So although we got a Heavyweight champ, its not UNANIMOUS yet!

Bigfish · « **Reply #912 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 03:53 am »

Guys:

Thanks!

I received my ModWright Transporter last April and the decision I made to purchase was due to this thread. When you look back it was President Ted and Vice President David that really got the tubes rolling.

Most of the rest of us joined-in and keep feeding this thing. It has been an exiting, fun-filled 11 months and I do really appreciate all of the knowledge I have gained from everyone here. However, I suspect the journey is not complete yet.

With the EML Rectifier we have found a currently produced, high quality, tube. The supply is being replenished allowing us to buy more to meet our needs - unlike with the NOS tubes. I think one of our challenges could be to find a high quality signal tube produced today that meets or exceeds the sound produced by the Tung Sol Round Plates. Anybody got any ideas?

Thanks again guys!

Ken

zybar · « **Reply #913 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 01:17 pm »

Quote from: Berto on 4 Mar 2009, 03:46 am

Quote from: ted_b on 4 Mar 2009, 03:00 am
As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).

Thank You!

OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.

Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!!

   Yeah I'm luving my full monty MTWP with EML, gotta scramble for those adaptors asap. My TS round plates (after 50 plus years of being unused) are lonely to say the least and its about freakin time they sing like I'm dreaming they only can! Cant wait to hear about the 5 hole Russians, vs American TS rounds. Will it be a bigtime fight Ala Brock Lesnar vs Fedor Emelianenko (for all you UFC fans ) or will it be another overated knockout.
   No one has yet to mention the Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys. Someone did mention the British Mullard/Brimar Ec333(3chk) and mentioned they liked them alot although if i recall they did not test them in a MWTP as of yet.
   So although we got a Heavyweight champ, its not UNANIMOUS yet!

Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys, Mullard/Brimar Ec333, etc...all great tubes, but none will dethrone the Round Plates. There is a reason they are the king in the 6SN7 world (not just for the TP). That being said, I am sure that some people will find a different combination more to their liking...which is absolutely cool.

Personally, I think the Redbase 5692's are the most overrated and overpriced tubes out of the 6SN7 family. While they do have a lush mid-range (way too lush to my ears), they are not very linear or strong at the frequency extremes. This basically makes them a mid-range tube for those that like that particular sound. For anybody out there that hasn't heard the Redbase 5692's, my advice is to try to borrow before buying. I just don't think it will work out for most Modwright customers.

George

zybar · « **Reply #914 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 01:19 pm »

Quote from: Bigfish on 4 Mar 2009, 03:53 am

Guys:

Thanks! I received my ModWright Transporter last April and the decision I made to purchase was due to this thread. When you look back it was President Ted and Vice President David that really got the tubes rolling. Most of the rest of us joined-in and keep feeding this thing. It has been an exiting, fun-filled 11 months and I do really appreciate all of the knowledge I have gained from everyone here. However, I suspect the journey is not complete yet.

With the EML Rectifier we have found a currently produced, high quality, tube. The supply is being replenished allowing us to buy more to meet our needs - unlike with the NOS tubes. I think one of our challenges could be to find a high quality signal tube produced today that meets or exceeds the sound produced by the Tung Sol Round Plates. Anybody got any ideas?

Thanks again guys!

Ken

Ken,

Unfortunately, I know of no current production 6SN7 that comes close to rivaling the Round Plates. This is based on personal experience and combing the internet.

Trust me, I don't want to spend the big bucks that the Round Plates command. aa

George

ndeslions · « **Reply #915 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 04:29 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 4 Mar 2009, 01:17 pm

Quote from: Berto on 4 Mar 2009, 03:46 am
Quote from: ted_b on 4 Mar 2009, 03:00 am
As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).

Thank You!

OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.

Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!!

   Yeah I'm luving my full monty MTWP with EML, gotta scramble for those adaptors asap. My TS round plates (after 50 plus years of being unused) are lonely to say the least and its about freakin time they sing like I'm dreaming they only can! Cant wait to hear about the 5 hole Russians, vs American TS rounds. Will it be a bigtime fight Ala Brock Lesnar vs Fedor Emelianenko (for all you UFC fans ) or will it be another overated knockout.
   No one has yet to mention the Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys. Someone did mention the British Mullard/Brimar Ec333(3chk) and mentioned they liked them alot although if i recall they did not test them in a MWTP as of yet.
   So although we got a Heavyweight champ, its not UNANIMOUS yet!

Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys, Mullard/Brimar Ec333, etc...all great tubes, but none will dethrone the Round Plates. There is a reason they are the king in the 6SN7 world (not just for the TP). That being said, I am sure that some people will find a different combination more to their liking...which is absolutely cool.

For me :
#1 Mullard CV2821 (ECC33 military version)
#2 Mullard ECC33
#3 GEC B65

Those 3 tubes are WAY above any other 6SN7

Then comes the Sylvania 6SN7W, Rayhteon VT231 or TS Round plates.

Berto · « **Reply #916 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 11:01 pm »

Quote from: ndeslions on 4 Mar 2009, 04:29 pm

Quote from: zybar on 4 Mar 2009, 01:17 pm
Quote from: Berto on 4 Mar 2009, 03:46 am
Quote from: ted_b on 4 Mar 2009, 03:00 am
As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).

Thank You!

OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.

Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!!

   Yeah I'm luving my full monty MTWP with EML, gotta scramble for those adaptors asap. My TS round plates (after 50 plus years of being unused) are lonely to say the least and its about freakin time they sing like I'm dreaming they only can! Cant wait to hear about the 5 hole Russians, vs American TS rounds. Will it be a bigtime fight Ala Brock Lesnar vs Fedor Emelianenko (for all you UFC fans ) or will it be another overated knockout.
   No one has yet to mention the Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys. Someone did mention the British Mullard/Brimar Ec333(3chk) and mentioned they liked them alot although if i recall they did not test them in a MWTP as of yet.
   So although we got a Heavyweight champ, its not UNANIMOUS yet!

Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys, Mullard/Brimar Ec333, etc...all great tubes, but none will dethrone the Round Plates. There is a reason they are the king in the 6SN7 world (not just for the TP). That being said, I am sure that some people will find a different combination more to their liking...which is absolutely cool.

For me :
#1 Mullard CV2821 (ECC33 military version)
#2 Mullard ECC33
#3 GEC B65

Those 3 tubes are WAY above any other 6SN7

Then comes the Sylvania 6SN7W, Rayhteon VT231 or TS Round plates.

Hi ndelisons(spchk)
Have you tested any of your top 3 in the MWTP? I also found others who lay the same claim as you. I will paste another quote from another 6SN7 user:
SONIC COMMENTS ON CV1988 versus CV181:
-------------------------------------
"The ECC32/CV181 is my favorite. The music becomes alive, with more dynamics
and realism. Its like the band moved into my living room. My wife liked the
CV1988 for vocals, it's so smooth, detailed, transparent, and fills the room
with sound from floor to ceiling, wall to wall. Simply put, both tubes are
excellent and way better than anything I've heard. Of course both tubes are
still breaking-in so I expect them to only get better"

Love to hear comments from actual MWTP owners w/octal adaptors and preferably a EML rectifier who have tested these tubes, and even better if anyone from first hand experiance can compare to the TS rounds. My octal adaptors will be here next week, so in a holding pattern but sooner or later I will get some top english versions and be able to crown my own CHAMP!

Philistine · « **Reply #917 on:** 5 Mar 2009, 12:13 am »

Update On The Shuguang Treasure 'Black Bottle' CV181-Z, 6SN7GT

This tube looked a really exciting option to explore. After talking to Dan and Ian Grant (Grant Audio) it's been confirmed that the 20mA current limit of the tube makes it incompatible with the MW TP, in other words DO NOT use this tube as it will damage the TP and/or the tube.

Ian was very helpful with this and hopefully he can introduce us to new options in the future.

valvesaglowin · « **Reply #918 on:** 5 Mar 2009, 01:27 am »

Hello All!
Thank you all for your email and interest in the EML rectifiers. We are currently waiting on a new production run. I'm figuring on about a month before the next wave of these tubes land here in the USA. I have taken note with all of your requests, and I'll be happy to contact all of you when I take delivery. Thanks for your patience!

Best,

George

funkmonkey · « **Reply #919 on:** 5 Mar 2009, 02:25 am »

Thanks George. Would you care to comment on any signal tubes that you may offer as replacements for the 6SN7, or 6CG7?