[reflex]

1.  The speakers - they are the "voice" of the system.  Like a good announcer, whose voice got him/her their job, they determine the final result of the audio chain.
2.  The room acoustics - like the recording of that announcer's voice, the acoustic environment will determine the naturalness of what we hear.
3.  Source - as many have said, it all starts here.  If the information is not there, nothing else in the chain can add it back.
4.  Power cords/conditioning/outlets - it has amazed me how much this effects my system...body, detail, dynamics, quietness and most of all a removal of harshness.
5.  Amplification - I've heard some amazing systems over the years with humble amps that got 1-4 right.
6.  Interconnects - In getting 1-5 right, interconnects all of a sudden begin sounding very similiar and those that seemed "bright" are not anymore.

[flintstone]

1-preamp.  every source has to go thru this.  and this component give you gain, which has a huge effect on hour system will sound.
2-source components.  you need to get the best out of your software.
(i guess if you only have one source, then source & preamp may be equal.  while some folks forgo a preamp altogether, i prefer using a preamp, because i think its delivery of gain is far superior to any non-preamp system.  if you have a great preamp, of course.    )

the above two are important regardless of room, and are not normally influenced so much by the room.  (unlike speakers.)  tho a great room (and room acoustic treatment, if needed, due to compromised acoustics/size/etc.), can make most any decent rig sound better.  while the room is the single greatest influence on sound, imo, most folks do not have the luxury of "upgrading their room", like they can w/other gear.  (except using acoustic treatment, if needed, per above.)  that said, your room will determine your choices of speakers, & your speakers will determine your choices of amps.  so, for the next equipment, i say:

3-speakers.  room dependent, & taste-dependent.
4-amps.  what works well w/your speakers?
5-power conditioning, which should lower noise floor & increase transparency of all gear connected to it.
6-cabling - the final touch, to further lower noise floor & increase transparency.

ymmv,

doug s.

I agree with you on the component order...and also on the reasoning, you base your opinion on. With very few things absolute in this hobby, and opinions the rule of the day....my mileage matches yours.


Dave

[nature boy]

1) Room acoustics
2) Speakers
3) Amp and other components

I think a careful match of amp, preamp and source components is important.
I don't think that folks put enough thought into this critical ingredient. 
It is also important to match amp output to speaker sensitivity.

NB

[twitch54]

It's interesting in reading these responses, while we all have our opinions I'm in agreement with both "JLM" and "darrenyeats". darrenyeats basically has taken JLM's response and expanded on it, to which I agree.

[doug s.]

It's interesting in reading these responses, while we all have our opinions I'm in agreement with both "JLM" and "darrenyeats". darrenyeats basically has taken JLM's response and expanded on it, to which I agree.

yes, it certainly is interesting.  seems there's diametrically opposed opinions re: the preamp.     no offense, but imo, darren, jlm & twitch will never get the best out of their rigs - they're throwing out the most important ingredient.     i know quite a few folks that have searched for best sound w/o a preamp, thinking they would get more transparency, detail, etc., by following the "simplest is best" logic, & that having something unneeded between source & speaker will degrade the sound.  almost to a person, they all went back to using a preamp, as its ability to provide quality gain outweighs all other potential negatives.

again - ymmv,

doug s.

[Steve]

It almost becomes weird as every component affects the sound. About the only way I see to improve on the methodology of hit and miss is to find as many components as possible that are accurate to the music to cut down on the variables. If not, one comes up with a hodgepodge method of trying to match inaccurate components for synergy.

For example, if one starts with the speaker, upon reputation, and it is bright, then the other components will also be off trying to compensate for the flawed speaker.

Cheers.

[darrenyeats]

almost to a person, they all went back to using a preamp, as its ability to provide quality gain outweighs all other potential negatives.

again - ymmv,

doug s.

Doug, my M does V.

[reflex]

It almost becomes weird as every component affects the sound. About the only way I see to improve on the methodology of hit and miss is to find as many components as possible that are accurate to the music to cut down on the variables. If not, one comes up with a hodgepodge method of trying to match inaccurate components for synergy.

For example, if one starts with the speaker, upon reputation, and it is bright, then the other components will also be off trying to compensate for the flawed speaker.

Cheers.

The cause for the speaker to be bright just might be room acoustics and/or power cables/conditioning/outlets.  The best speakers in the world are going to sound bright with a bad signal being sent to them, the the room can increase the problem by not being treated properly.  If you get the other issues solved before the signal gets to the speaker, all of a sudden "bright" can turn into "right".

[Geardaddy]

A lot of thoughtful answers have been provided thus far.  For moi, a generic and mechanical hierarchy would be:

1.  speaker/amps (I almost see this as a single entity)
2.  source
3.  room
4.  accessory equipment (cables, conditioner, etc)

While the room is important, Bose 501s in a tricked out AV room are not going to get it done (501s were my first speaker but what can you expect from a 13 yr old).

On a more theoretical level, I would say:

1.  Listener
2.  speaker/amps
3.  source
4.  room
5.  accessory equipment (cables, conditioner, etc)

I know a lot of folks think "psychoacoustics" is hogwash, but I believe it plays a larger role in this goofy hobby of ours than anyone would like to admit (an "audio placebo effect").  Many of us come from technical backgrounds and take pride in being "objective."  However, we have all had the experience of demoing equipment that swept us of our feet at first flush only to fizzle out later.    


    

[reflex]

The rationale behind my ordering of importance in an audio system chain is based on what actually occurs with each part of that chain.  If a task is easy, it is then easy for anyone to accomplish it.  If is hard, then it takes a more proficient person to get it done.  Relating that to an audio system should prompt one to examine the process of getting sound in the room for us to hear.  The speakers become the component with the most difficult task to accomplish.  They receive electrical energy in the form of the signal from the amp via the speaker cables.  They must change this electrical energy into acoustic energy, via moving the drivers and then change it again by creating acoustical energy.  The most difficult task in the process.  The room actually becomes part of the speaker and as such, I ranked it second in importance, because it's effect on the acoustical energy created by the speaker will "voice" the modulated air that moves the diaphram in our ears.

The source then would be ranked next as it too much create a "change" in the signal.  In the case of the CD system, digital information has to be changed to analog.  In the case of a phono system, mechanical energy created by the record groove/stylus/cantilever interaction is changed to an electrical signal inside the cartridge. 

The power system would be third in order of importance, because it's purpose is to remove outside influence on the signal and how it is handled inside the component it is connected to.  It much pass current to the component, but it's ability to prohibit outside influences has a greater impact on what we hear.

The amplifier system would be the next in importance, because it's job is not to change anything, or keep anything from having a negative influence, but to amplify the signal for use by the speaker.  Bandwidth and power headroom will make the better amps stand out.

The interconnects/speakers wire would be last in importance because their task is only to pass the signal along.  Proper observation of basic electrical parameters can allow most cabling to accomplish this without having negative impact.  There are noticable differences in any cable's impact on the system, but in reality it is the cable's ability to "step out of the way" when passing the signal along and not inhibit it in any way by altering the electrical properties of said signal.

[twitch54]

no offense, but imo, darren, jlm & twitch will never get the best out of their rigs - they're throwing out the most important ingredient.   

I think not.............presently utilizing an ARC LS-26.

[Steve]

"The cause for the speaker to be bright just might be room acoustics and/or power cables/conditioning/outlets.  The best speakers in the world are going to sound bright with a bad signal being sent to them, the the room can increase the problem by not being treated properly.  If you get the other issues solved before the signal gets to the speaker, all of a sudden "bright" can turn into "right"."

So how does one know if the room, the speaker, amp, preamp, or the source is bright?  

I think one would be better off to independently find the most accurate preamp/IC so one doesn't have to worry about them. And then work with the source, amp, speaker and room together at one time. Trying the speaker first won't identify if the electronics is bright, the room is bright, or the speaker is bright.

Cheers.

[reflex]

<snip>

I know a lot of folks think "psychoacoustics" is hogwash, but I believe it plays a larger role in the goofy hobby of ours than anyone would like to admit (an "audio placebo effect").  Many of us come from technical backgrounds and take pride in being "objective."  However, we have all had the experience of demoing equipment that swept us of our feet at first flush only to fizzle out later.    


    

Psychoacoustics plays a huge role in what one might perceive as sounding "realistic".  A number of people prefer to listen with the lights out, or with their eyes closed.  This is due to the elimination of visual distractions which will inhibit a perception of the recording occuring in the room...we see things that say otherwise.  Speakers placed close to the front wall also is a pychoacoustic distraction because the mind finds it hard to create depth "behind" the wall, when we see it there in front of us.  The wall itself is not the problem (though it certainly will reflect sound back at the listener and create defraction problems), it's our observation of the wall being present.

A few years ago, in my store, a couple of guys where watching an Eagles video on a 100" screen with the audio being played through some M & K THX speakers and commented as to how great it sounded.  Knowing that these speakers were not the most musical around, I turned the projector off and they exclaimed "what did you do?  It doesn't sound nearly as good!"  I told them I took away the visual cues that the video provided...and their perception of realism was diminished as a result.  The sound had not changed at all.

[reflex]

"The cause for the speaker to be bright just might be room acoustics and/or power cables/conditioning/outlets.  The best speakers in the world are going to sound bright with a bad signal being sent to them, the the room can increase the problem by not being treated properly.  If you get the other issues solved before the signal gets to the speaker, all of a sudden "bright" can turn into "right"."

So how does one know if the room, the speaker, amp, preamp, or the source is bright?  

I think one would be better off to independently find the most accurate preamp/IC so one doesn't have to worry about them. And then work with the source, amp, speaker and room together at one time. Trying the speaker first won't identify if the electronics is bright, the room is bright, or the speaker is bright.

Cheers.

If you assume (and that can always be a big mistake  ) that the speaker designer did as much as possible when voicing their speaker to give it, at the very least, an accurate frequency response curve, by not having issues in the room/equipment/cabling that they used during design, then a shifted upper frequency response, leading to "brightness" should not be a problem with most properly voiced speakers.  If you hear brightness from a speaker, or harshness (some may perceive this as an effect of brightness), then most probably what you are hearing is some other component creating/sending this response shift to the speaker.  The room itself may be causing the speaker to sound bright and any speaker placed in the same room would also have this quality.  It's easier to get a speaker to to reproduce high frequencies (the quality of which will be determined by tweeter choice and crossover quality) than it is to get it to reproduce lower frequencies (we're talking "quantity" here).  A speaker that might sound bright to almost anyone in a system with marginal accompanying components might all of a sudden sound "open, detailed and revealing" when those problems were corrected.

I've had a number of friends comment recently, who finally took my recommendation and inserted quality power cords in their systems, that the harshness and/or brightness of other cables and their systems in general greatly diminished when they corrected the problem rather than putting a bandaid on it by covering it up with lessor choices.

[Imperial]

I sort of always think different I believe... 
I approach such a subject with a differing set of criteria.

1. I'd always start with the room acoustics... (Make a plan - standmount +/- sub, floor stander..?)
2. Then I'd check out the A/C conditions and the ground connections in the room.
3. Then I'd asses the wall construction and floor construction.
After this, I'd look for:

4. Amplifier + speaker + placements + room treatments.. not separating
5. pre amplifier...
6. cables as the last fine tuning

Source I think of as besides all this, you must have it before you begin.. (like music..  )

Imperial

[Freo-1]

"The cause for the speaker to be bright just might be room acoustics and/or power cables/conditioning/outlets.  The best speakers in the world are going to sound bright with a bad signal being sent to them, the the room can increase the problem by not being treated properly.  If you get the other issues solved before the signal gets to the speaker, all of a sudden "bright" can turn into "right"."

So how does one know if the room, the speaker, amp, preamp, or the source is bright? 

I think one would be better off to independently find the most accurate preamp/IC so one doesn't have to worry about them. And then work with the source, amp, speaker and room together at one time. Trying the speaker first won't identify if the electronics is bright, the room is bright, or the speaker is bright.

Cheers.

If you assume (and that can always be a big mistake  ) that the speaker designer did as much as possible when voicing their speaker to give it, at the very least, an accurate frequency response curve, by not having issues in the room/equipment/cabling that they used during design, then a shifted upper frequency response, leading to "brightness" should not be a problem with most properly voiced speakers.  If you hear brightness from a speaker, or harshness (some may perceive this as an effect of brightness), then most probably what you are hearing is some other component creating/sending this response shift to the speaker.  The room itself may be causing the speaker to sound bright and any speaker placed in the same room would also have this quality.  It's easier to get a speaker to to reproduce high frequencies (the quality of which will be determined by tweeter choice and crossover quality) than it is to get it to reproduce lower frequencies (we're talking "quantity" here).  A speaker that might sound bright to almost anyone in a system with marginal accompanying components might all of a sudden sound "open, detailed and revealing" when those problems were corrected.

I've had a number of friends comment recently, who finally took my recommendation and inserted quality power cords in their systems, that the harshness and/or brightness of other cables and their systems in general greatly diminished when they corrected the problem rather than putting a bandaid on it by covering it up with lessor choices.

Sorry, but I respectfully demur. Power cable changes are more of a psychoacoustic modification, not an engineering modification.

If a speaker sounds bright, that has more to do with the amplifier to speaker interface than anything else (how the crossover interacts with the amplifier). Again, the room can play a big part as well (but the room generally plays havoc with the bass to lower midrange).

The type of tweeter employed, as well as how the tweeter interacts with the crossover determines relative brightness.

A proper speaker analysis usually measures the frequency response vs. impedance, so one gets some idea of basic behavior characteristics.


 

[reflex]

My comments re: power cables is based on personal experience as well as that of a number of other listeners, so while I would not argue the importance of speaker/amp interaction, I certainly cannot dismiss the positive results obtained by improving the shielding of interference that is accomplished by using better power cables.

[Imperial]

I agree, powercables are like getting a close to twice as good amp, preamp, source sometimes!!

Imperial

[Freo-1]

I agree, powercables are like getting a close to twice as good amp, preamp, source sometimes!!

Imperial

Based on what? 

A power cable simply provides power to the unit, period. As long as it is made properly (sufficient AWG, shielding, etc), attributing additional sonic improvements is psychoacoustic "at best", and snake oil at it's worst.

There is enough mis-information already without adding to it by extolling engineering magic to power cable change. This subject has been beat to death in other threads, and no one has provided any actual engineering data to support their claims, only subjective psychoacoustic improvement. (IMO).     

[Pirate]

My thoughts,

1.  Source: Analog? CDP? Server? Without it nothing else works. The quality of the source limits the capabilities of the rest of the system.
2.  Room :  This sets the size and type of speakers.
3.  Speakers: They  determine the size and capabilities of the Amplifier that can be used.
4.  Amplifier: usefulness is limited by the speakers capabilities.
5.  Preamplifier: I originally thought this to be a lower priority. But after reading some of the input here I am starting to change
                       my mind.
6.  Accessories / Tweaks : These are usually used for compensating on a lack of one of the above components abilities.