[darredon]

Hello Audio Circle members. Recently my friends and I started an Audio Club here in San Diego called the Ordinary People Audio Club. Right now we have three members and hoping to grow the club. Anyway each quarter we come up with an audio question for the members and we thought it would be a great idea to get the Audio Circle community’s thoughts on it. So here's our first question.

Question “What’s the order of importance in a two channel audio system?” Is it:
Room acoustic treatment
Speakers
Amplifier
Pre-amplifier
Or Integrated vs. Separates
Source – CDP or Transport & DAC combo or Turntable
Interconnects
Speaker Wire – Bi wire vs. Standard
Power Cords
Power Conditioning


Okay here’s my order

1-Amplifier
2-Pre-amplifier
3-Speakers
4-Turntable
5-CDP
6-Power Cord
7-AC Outlets
8-Room Treatment
9-Speaker Wire Standard


Power in a system has always been my thing, then speakers.  In my opinion an audio system is like a steak dinner, everything depends on the quality of the steak, the gravy and sides are nothing without the steak. Amp = Steak 

Danny
 

 


 

[Housteau]

For me it would be a close tie for #1 between: 
a)  the source (LP or CD) - without a good source not much else matters
b)  speakers - they speak for themselves, pardon the pun
c)  room acoustics and treatments - once again, without this not much else matters

2  Pre-amp
3  Amp
4  good power to the room is more than just the outlets
5  cables and wire - good for tuning when everything else is correct
6  power cords

[mdnocum]

Question “What’s the order of importance in a two channel audio system?” Is it:
Room acoustic treatment
Speakers
Amplifier
Pre-amplifier
Or Integrated vs. Separates
Source – CDP or Transport & DAC combo or Turntable
Interconnects
Speaker Wire – Bi wire vs. Standard
Power Cords
Power Conditioning

The order I believe, from most important to least, is:

1) Beer!!!
2) Speakers
3) Integrated Amp
4) Source CDP
5) Interconnects
6) Room Acoutics
7) Speakerwires
Power Cords & Outlets
 

[James Romeyn]

For me it would be a close tie for #1 between: 
a)  the source (LP or CD) - without a good source not much else matters
b)  speakers - they speak for themselves, pardon the pun
c)  room acoustics and treatments - once again, without this not much else matters

2  Pre-amp
3  Amp
4  good power to the room is more than just the outlets
5  cables and wire - good for tuning when everything else is correct
6  power cords

Ditto.

[richidoo]

I think it is logical to start with the highest distortion parts first, room is by far the highest distortion introducing factor. Then speakers which average 1-3% THD for high end models. Then the differences between different sources and wires which have THD in the .01 - .0001% range can actually be heard. If you pick wires first, you may find them inadequate when you finally treat the room.

The more accurate the system, the more room treatment you need because with lower THD in the system, it takes less distorting influence from the room to ruin it. So the room needs upgrading with major system upgrades.
Fun question!
Rich

[Bigfish]

I would cast a vote for:

1.  Speakers
2.  Source
3.  Amps properly matched to speakers requirements
4.  Preamp
5.  Room Treatments
6.  High-end PCs and ICs

Ken

[Russell Dawkins]

the music

speakers (the steak)
room acoustics
power amp (the cook)
preamp, if used
source


wires

[pearsall001]

1) Room treatments - without question, the room is the most important piece of gear!
2) Speakers
3) Source
4) Amp
5) Preamp
6) Balanced power, conditioning
7) Cables
Easy chair
9) Beverage of your choice

[Christopher Witmer]

Start at both ends and work toward the middle, although cables come last.

Among equipment, good speakers are the hardest part of all, by a significant margin. Next in line in terms of difficulty is getting good signal source equipment. Amplifiers are obviously important -- "the weak link in the chain" and all that -- but it is easier to find amplifiers that do their job well than it is to find signal source equipment and especially speakers that do their job well.

If you have halfway decent equipment, then the next area to pay attention to, and the one area that probably gets the least amount of attention in general, is listening room acoustics. A lot of people are getting only mid-fi (or worse) performance out of hi-fi equipment because of their listening environment.

And yes, beer does tend to improve the sound considerably.

-- Chris

[Zero]

1. the room
2. the room
3. the room
4. the room
5. the room

[Freo-1]

The question is not as easy to answer as it would first appear.  The room which the system is played in makes a huge difference.

The music source is key. The best amp/speaker/room setup will still sound bad if the source is compromised.

From there, the room/amplifier/speaker combination is the most important. In order to get good sound reproduction, the speakers need to to be matched to the room, and the amp needs to provide synergy with the speakers. That is supposed to be one of the key elements a dealer  would provide to the customer. Individual components all can garner great reviews, but when put together, the results can be very sub-optimal.

The frequency/power response curves between a given speaker and associated amplifier is very important, and often overlooked aspect of sound reproduction. 

[riffer]

1.  Speakers
2.  Amplification (competent)
3.  Source
4.  Room
5.  Atmospheric conditions

[James Romeyn]

After all the other upgrades, it is absolutely incredible the degree to which the system's ultimate performance is determined by the preamp.  The preamp may well be the most frequently underated performance limiting ingredient.  (In some cases the preamp-amp interface may be as significant as that between the amp & speaker.) 

I'd wager, the more vociferously one tends to disagree w/ this statement, the less likely they are to have experienced the difference between a good & great preamp in a super-high-quality reference system/room. 

[yooper]

I also believe speakers are number one.  But moving on to number two.....

In my limited experience with what I believe to be better than average equipment,  I think a great amp allowing your speakers to shine is vital, but once a person has good amplification, swapping great pre amps will make more of a sonic difference than changes between great amps when considering the laws of diminishing returns for the dollars spent.

Of course that's just my opinion and I could be wrong.  The more I am able to experience changes in equipment within my system, my opinion may certainly change over time, and that is one of the joys of the hobby.

Mark

[*Scotty*]

If you examine this proposition logically the music has to start somewhere and end at your ears. This kind of puts the burden on the source component not to make the first mistake.
No single electronic component can fall down on the job on of transferring the music to the speakers, they are all crucial to a successful result. The speakers are where the buck stops.
These determine result of your hard work upstream to not loose the information you started with. Ideally they should be a GIGO device,as transparent and as neutral as possible. I would place the room last but not least. It can degrade your systems performance, or with minimal treatment get out of the way. What you can't do is recover musical information that was never sent downstream in first place by spending money on room treatments. If you think you can, take the room out of the equation with a good set of headphones driven by your power amp. You will hear your systems problems irrespective of your rooms' acoustics. I view my stereo as a chain that is only as strong as its weakest link.
Scotty

[doug s.]

1-preamp.  every source has to go thru this.  and this component give you gain, which has a huge effect on hour system will sound.
2-source components.  you need to get the best out of your software.
(i guess if you only have one source, then source & preamp may be equal.  while some folks forgo a preamp altogether, i prefer using a preamp, because i think its delivery of gain is far superior to any non-preamp system.  if you have a great preamp, of course.    )

the above two are important regardless of room, and are not normally influenced so much by the room.  (unlike speakers.)  tho a great room (and room acoustic treatment, if needed, due to compromised acoustics/size/etc.), can make most any decent rig sound better.  while the room is the single greatest influence on sound, imo, most folks do not have the luxury of "upgrading their room", like they can w/other gear.  (except using acoustic treatment, if needed, per above.)  that said, your room will determine your choices of speakers, & your speakers will determine your choices of amps.  so, for the next equipment, i say:

3-speakers.  room dependent, & taste-dependent.
4-amps.  what works well w/your speakers?
5-power conditioning, which should lower noise floor & increase transparency of all gear connected to it.
6-cabling - the final touch, to further lower noise floor & increase transparency.

ymmv,

doug s.

[JLM]

Bigger spaces represent difference in order of importance...

listener (trained ear, musical tastes, abilities to hear)


the music (genre, selection, artist, quality of recording)


speakers (only/primary transducer, highest distortion, most colored, most frequency limited)

room (control over what/when/how loud, isolation, size, shape, design features)

source (most complex, possibly another transducer, vinyl/CD/computer characteristics)
pre/power amp (heart of synergy issues, command over speakers)

power (abberrations are a localized case by case issue)
wiring ("shouldn't have to be an issue" but is and can be made into a bigger issue than is should)

[darrenyeats]

The home audio experience is a chain beginning with the recording and ending in your brain.

Any link in the chain may ruin the effect so literally speaking they are all as important as each other!

However, I shall place the links in the order of how variable they are and therefore how much emphasis I place on criticising or obsessing over their performance:

1. State of mind. The presence of friends (with or without alchohol) can make listening to music much more fun! Sometimes I'm not in the mood for music. This factor is very variable and makes the most notable difference for me.
2. Recording. The quality of recordings noticeably varies a lot. Go research your favourite music, you might find there are alternative releases or masters which are better. This has the potential for making a very large difference. See here: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=270134&highlight=buckley#post270134
3. Speakers. Each speaker is designed with certain assumptions (like the room, see next point) and so there is no such thing as the perfect speaker. Rather some speakers are more appropriate than others for certain applications. There are so many disparate technologies for loudspeakers, such variety, that the difference in sonic outcome can be very great!
4. Room. The room acoustics vary a lot and have a large influence on the sound. These should be considered in tandem with your loudspeaker choice.
5. Bass EQ. Normally a domestic speaker+room delivers a very uneven bass response so this will make a very noticeable difference after looking at 3 and 4. It has made a massive difference for me. See thread here for a free, 100% transparent way to do this: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=51994.0
6. Amplification. The most important part of amplification goes hand in hand with point 3 - is it passive or active. For me, active amplification wins the technical argument and the best system I've heard was active. (However, not all active systems are better than all passive systems, clearly!) Second, depending on the load of the speakers the amp can have a hard job, and so quality of amp can make a difference. Again, with an active system the load is reduced so cutting edge amplification becomes less necessary.
7. Source. All the source needs to do is supply an undistorted line signal. Don't need to worry about speaker load, room acoustics etc. It's a voltage signal that's all. Decent modern digital sources do a good job of this and perform very similarly with low distortion. Distinguishing between them unsighted is quite difficult. It's only boutique or "high-end" sources that tend to sound different. I'm not going to mince my words here...any source that sounds notably different from other modern sources is adding distortion to the sound IMO. There is a lot of hot air in this area.
8. Ancillary equipment: cables, banana plugs, connectors, etc. We expect these to be transparent. For example, if inserting a new banana plug or RCA jack suddenly made your mid-range liquid and your highs smooth you would be pleased initially but worried on another level. These bits of equipment are not meant to do that, they are just meant to be absolutely transparent. (BTW I view the job of sources as the same, so I'm very unromantic about that. If you want to change the character of the sound start at the top of this list and work down. To repeat, sources have a very simple aim which is why they've arrived in general at a high performance point.)
9. Preamp gets a mention but only to say...do without a preamp if you can.
Darren

[BrianM]

Basically, if you haven't had your entire house cryogenically frozen, the other variables are moot.

[Steve]

Good question. First, I hope none think this post is self serving. If so, I apologize. I do have a different method of performing listening tests, much more stringent than others, so my feelings on the subject are different.

 First I would like to mention that integrateds have the preamp built into the amplifier. So one has no choice but to view them as one component. It would seem to me that entire systems needs to be tested in the room at one time, rather than separately, to hear the true results. True also with separates but I think simpler.
 
For separates, I prefer to start with the preamp, as Doug and others mention. I also would include the interconnect cables as both the preamp and ICs are the Only components that can be stringently listening tested for accuracy/transparency/
dynamics/tonality etc; in otherwards not changing the source music in anyway. The rest of the componets cannot, for various reasons.

Then I would work with the room and other components, as a block for the most lifelike sound. I prefer this method because the preamp and ICs would be known Not to be a variable, neither adding nor subtacting from the sound, but a solid  foundation one knows to be accurate.

This means fewer variables to deal with.

Another interesting finding with this scenario is that since the ICs/preamp are of known transparent/accurate quality, it seems easier for me to identify problems and match other components for better synergy, live, emotional music.

In otherwards, solving sonic "problems" with 4 variables (source/amp/speaker/speaker wire) is easier than a problem with 6 variables (which includes the ICs and preamplifier).

Cheers.