Inguz Audio (EQ for SB)

Bob in St. Louis · « **on:** 8 Mar 2008, 12:13 pm »

I'm kicking around the idea of using Inguz Audios' PC based EQ software for my SB3.
Anybody use this? Thoughts, Comments?

Bob

darrenyeats · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Mar 2008, 01:23 pm »

You may very well know this, but just in case a background...

Inguz is a filter processing engine which runs on the music server. You can feed it filters built by DRC (digital room correction) software. You'll need a calibrated microphone and a decent sound card to do this. Or, you can feed it filters built from the EQ plugin, which is a parametric equaliser.

Most people using Inguz do the full DRC shooting match.

For me, two qualities of Inguz make it worthy. First, it is free. Second, because it is server based there is no S/PDIF connection to extra boxes, which avoids the possibility of undesired distortion due to a longer signal path or jitter.

Personally, I don't like the idea of messing with the signal any more than necessary, hence I use EQ and measure warble tones with my Radio Shack SPL meter. I used EQ on the whole frequency spectrum for a while, with stunning results in certain ways. However I've been able to get the same positive results, plus more raw naturalness, by changes to my room treatments coupled with speaker positioning, and dropping the EQ on the whole frequency spectrum. Now, I EQ only the bass (200Hz and below) and I believe I've found my personal way forward... I will never live without bass EQ now. I believe even the best speakers and well treated rooms would benefit from it.

As I said, I am not the typical Inguz user. A lot of the people who do full DRC swear by it. Have a look at the forum at inguzaudio.com for more info.
Darren

miklorsmith · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Mar 2008, 04:09 pm »

I'm completely with darrenyeats on the bass EQ. I think it is nearly impossible to get accurate bass in a domestic situation without it. I have used Inguz' semi-parametric capability a lot and think it's stellar. It seemed transparent to me, and was effective. I don't need it now because I have a dedicated bass EQ box.

To go to the next level with it you would need a real measurement scheme like Room EQ Wizard. Having done the SPL meter/test tone thing for a couple of years, going to it was a revelation.

As to the full-bore room correction, Hugh actually came to my place to set it up as he happened to be in Seattle. I had been unable to figure it out as it's not a purchase-ready (read dummy-compatible) suite yet. We both were ambivalent about the results in this case but I know lots of folks swear by it. Uli Brueggemann actually has a for-purchase, very trick Acourate software plugin for the Inguz plugin that adds on a ton of function and supposedly better algorithms than the DRC base that Hugh uses. For those that don't know, Mr. Brueggemann designed the Good Vibrations algorithms for the open source TacT machines before they went closed-box with the 2.2XP. This software was widely acknowledged to be better than TacT's and I wouldn't doubt that Acourate is outstanding.

Supposedly, other corrections besides frequency are possible but I'm not sure how they work or what they do. For most applications I think a bass EQ and good room measurements should be plenty. It's amazing how much other stuff good bass can fix.

bpape · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Mar 2008, 04:14 pm »

I would agree. Properly used, a combination of room setup, treatments, and bass EQ is the best overall solution. IMO, it should be done in the order I just listed. Get the room setup the best you can first. Then treat to bring decay times and reflections (including SBIR and other bass cancellations) in order. Then add the EQ to trim the last little bit in the bottom end.

I personally run an analog 5 band fully parametric Symmetrix EQ in my HT/music room. All 5 bands run from 60Hz down (in sub circuit only). I haven't played with the Plugin yet but now that I have a beefier server capable of handing the load, I may try it.

Bryan

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Mar 2008, 01:48 pm »

Good information fellas EXCELLENT! Thank you.

Looks like something I need to try.
But, I really do need to treat my room....

.........

I keep getting reminded of this little tidbit of information, but the glitter of shiney new toys has been too much of a distraction for me. I've just about got to the point where I've built myself a nice "cake". Now I just need to put the "icing" on top. The "icing", would be room treatments and tweaking of the FR from EQing.
I do like the idea of EQing only the last few octaves though.

Bob

miklorsmith · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Mar 2008, 03:18 pm »

The beauty of the Inguz EQ is that if you're running a Transporter or SB, you already have everything you need. You can just tweak bass response without toying with anything else.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Mar 2008, 05:02 pm »

........or buying more equipment and adding more wires to an already full equipment rack! aa

miklorsmith · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Mar 2008, 08:36 pm »

'Zackly.

EVERYONE running this platform should try it. Even if the "final" answer doesn't include it, I guarantee you'll learn something. Did I mention FREE!

richidoo · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Mar 2008, 09:43 pm »

Hugh has posted a beta version on his forum which will work with SqueezeCenter for the new Duet. I am in the process of installing and getting that going. Very useful plugin!! Thanks for the tip on Acourate, Mike.

ted_b · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 May 2008, 06:15 pm »

A few semi-quick questions On Inguz from fellow AC'ers:
I have substantial room treatment (14+ Realtraps, diffusors, RFZ's,etc....see system) and although I have bass EQ'd my LFE bass via SMS-1 my real need is 2 channel (lf is taken care of via the wonderful lf extension of my SP Tech Revelations). I'm really, at this time, not interested in using the DRC aspects of Inguz, just the EQ for couch-potato-based tone controls/flavorings of those early or post-modern ripped cd's that are just too damn bright/hot or dull for regular listening (classic downside to a revealing magical system

). I have a good tweaked system (Modwright TP, LS 36.5, Stealth and Tesla IC's and SC's, McCormack DNA-500amp, etc.) and wanted to know three things from you guys:
1) is the EQ function fairly clean and transparent if not used crazily;
2) if the answer to 1 is "no" or "kind of" is it easy to disengage it fully from the digital signal path
3) are there presets that you can set up (thinking certain types of early or compressed cd masterings could use a touch of roll-off and a touch of bass EQ)? This last question is a lazy one, I know, cuz I can read the online instructions, but wanted to hear from real AC users.

Thanks,

Ted

miklorsmith · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 May 2008, 07:54 pm »

1) Yes
2) N/A but also yes
3) yes

I'm a yes man.

That said, I haven't tried it with SC7. The EQ is useful but not a precision tool unless you have decent measurement capability, as in Room EQ Wizard.

ted_b · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 May 2008, 08:11 pm »

Thanks. A few of us couldn't get it to install correctly (manual) on SC7 but a couple folks report success on the beta 7.0.1.

gbeard · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 May 2008, 10:12 pm »

Hi all,

I have been wanting to get this plug-in running for some time. I am running SqueezeCenter and I can see the plug-in on both the SlimServer and my RWA SB2, but it won't do anything. Suggestions appreciated...

gb

sts9fan · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 May 2008, 12:02 pm »

No luck on this end getting this installed las night. I downloaded the EQ and put it in the correct folder. Nothing shows up in the main menu. Then when attempting to download the other part it just would not let me. Weird.

joeriz · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 May 2008, 01:18 pm »

Just wanted new Inguz users to be aware (if you're not already) that once installed, you lose the ability to use the FF and REW functionality on your SB or Transporter. Might be an annoyance to some (it is to me)...

Other than that, it works great!

Joe

Robert57 · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 May 2008, 01:50 pm »

Many of you seem to agree good bass EQ delivers a good 80-90% of the benefit of the full-spectrum EQ. For Teb_b and others who have tried the Velodyne SMS-1 for bass EQ up to 200 Hz, how happy are you with this tool, and why wouldn't this be a perfectly adequate bass solution for a decent quality 2.1 music system (monitors and sub)? I would imagine that using an SMS-1 for bass EQ along with ACI's passive high-pass filters (at 65 hz, between the pre and power amp) would be a great way to relieve the deepest bass burdens from the stereo amp and main L & R speakers, while preserving transparency for the broader mids-highs signal. I love the Inguz-for-SB theory, but I'm a committed Mac guy, and I get the impression that Inguz isn't really ready for Mac OSX yet, let alone SqueezeCenter 7. Any thoughts on SMS-1 with ACI passive filters as a good bass EQ alternative for music? Any downsides in transparency or rhythm & timing?

Feel free to move this to the Audio Central circle--sorry for the detour. Thanks!

Rob

ted_b · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 May 2008, 02:26 pm »

I, for one, am a big SMS-1 advocate, but I only use it for bass EQ in a 5.1 world. My fronts, SP Tech Revelations, are quite adequate as full-range, and they are used that way for both 2 channel and 5.1. I EQ only LFE with the SMS-1. That being said, I believe that bass EQ in a 2.0 world is something that has many more strengths than weaknesses, and the slight loss in continuity and or phase/timing is easily offset in much better bass control, articulation and even midrange clarity, not to mention amplifier efficiencies, etc. I just don't need it for the Revs.

I will try, this weekend, to install inguz on my 7.0.1 SC setup. I'll report back on it's ability to tame bright cd's,etc. I will mainly use it for classic tone control stuff, nothing sophisticated, and no DRC stuff. I'm probably overly concerned about it's affect on the signal path in bypass mode. Most have said it's pretty easy to truly bypass.

gbeard · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 May 2008, 04:34 pm »

Ted,

Please report back on the install. I am still unable to get mine to work and your experiences may help me figure out what I've done incorrectly.

Thanks,
gb

darrenyeats · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 May 2008, 06:25 pm »

A couple of points:

The EQ function appears to be completely transparent. Like several others here I EQ just the bass frequencies (200Hz and below) and I hear zero effect on the rest of the sound. I would expect just that since the filters being used are non-physical and are limited in extent to 200Hz. As mentioned there isn't even a S/PDIF interface to add potential jitter.
The EQ presets can be defined separately from the EQ GUI plug-in. There is an xml file for each preset which you can configure by hand to have an indefinite number of EQ bands. On Linux the preset files live at /usr/share/InguzEQ/Settings/. I use 16 bands for example.

Regards, Darren

ted_b · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 May 2008, 09:04 pm »

Well, in 7.0.1 I got it installed and enabled (EQ only). The EQ menus show up on the Transporter, and all is present and accounted for. Problem is, it doesn't work...or shall I say it doesn't work for me.....any changes I make to the settings (i.e balance, bass, midrange, etc.) shows up on the front panel but takes almost 22 seconds to kick in. That is way too long to assess what the correct levels might be, etc (being that the increments are .1 db and sometimes that's enough). And I have a duo core processor running 3.16 gigahertz, with no DRC enabled. CPU seems to be around 13-15% utilized.

Any ideas? Thx

Edit: A response on Slim forum said this 22 second pause was "ok" and due to buffer. Ouch! Can you imagine having a volume control that took 22 seconds to respond. Then, all of a sudden it's way too loud, so you turn it down and wait another 22 seconds (while it blares) to find out it's still too loud, or now not enough. Unworkable IMHO.
Ted