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QuoteMy guess is that you be better off spending the money elsewhere (like replacing the Moscode)Curious about this as I thought the Moscode was the latest amp of choice?
My guess is that you be better off spending the money elsewhere (like replacing the Moscode)
With all due respect Doug, making conjecture about how the HT3's would benefit or not with the addition of stereo subs based on your passed experience with entirely different speakers is of little use. I am pretty well certain the speaker you speak of (ones with 10"s) didn't have any where near the quality of woofer driver that the TC sound driver is. The motor structure of a woofer is absolutely crucial to understanding how it will fair when asked to play bass and midbass simultaneously and if ever there were woofers that could go so with aplomb the TC sounds' woofers is among them. Typically the reason why woofers playing low mucks up the midrange from the same speakers is usually do to distortion and subsequently inductive modulation. The TC sound drivers have shorting rings like well made pro sound woofers and the better hi-fi woofers from Scan speak and a few others. This makes them much less susceptible to such problems then standard woofer drivers. It would be unwise IMO to try to make a guess at how the HT3 would improve with relief of bass material without experiencing it first hand.
...there's something to be said about the ability to move more air w/less distortion.
Quote from: doug s. on 14 Dec 2007, 05:16 pmone other point - for me anyways - is that, unless i could have a single sub centered & in the nearfield, i would rather do w/o. depending on speakers/subs, i might still rather do w/o a single sub - stereo subs is the way to go - better soundstaging, less distortion, easier to integrate into a room...And, as pointed out, with HT3s you essentially do have stereo subs...just not ones that play all the way to 17Hz.
one other point - for me anyways - is that, unless i could have a single sub centered & in the nearfield, i would rather do w/o. depending on speakers/subs, i might still rather do w/o a single sub - stereo subs is the way to go - better soundstaging, less distortion, easier to integrate into a room...
Quote from: JoshK on 14 Dec 2007, 05:11 pmI'm not Jim, but I'd start at 40hz xo and then experiment. At 40hz, any 2nd distortion produced by the sub (at very high volume) will be at 80hz which is still non-localizeable, whereas H2 of a higher crossover point might be local'ble. Here the sub is also only there for first octave material which isn't much in music, so most of the time you wouldn't even know it is there or on if you have set it up correctly.I seem to hear of few people who cross to their sub(s) that low, for whatever reason.QuoteI think a lot of the reasons why subs are localized or heard is due to their distortion, not their fundamental tones. Or sometime their box talk (which can be both significant and significantly higher up in freq than the sub's operating range). That's a great point, if you're still crossing really low. But since 50 Hz fundamental's H2 is 100 you can localize that, and many people cross to their subs much higher than that.
I'm not Jim, but I'd start at 40hz xo and then experiment. At 40hz, any 2nd distortion produced by the sub (at very high volume) will be at 80hz which is still non-localizeable, whereas H2 of a higher crossover point might be local'ble. Here the sub is also only there for first octave material which isn't much in music, so most of the time you wouldn't even know it is there or on if you have set it up correctly.
I think a lot of the reasons why subs are localized or heard is due to their distortion, not their fundamental tones. Or sometime their box talk (which can be both significant and significantly higher up in freq than the sub's operating range).
another reason why you need stereo subs, imo. even as low as 40hz, i can tell where a single sub is, unless it's directly centered between the main speakers... i used to use 24db/octave slope, now i am using 48db/octave, fwiw... doug s.
I think a lot of the reasons why subs are localized or heard is due to their distortion, not their fundamental tones.
QuoteI think a lot of the reasons why subs are localized or heard is due to their distortion, not their fundamental tones.That must explain why people can't tell that I have a sub sitting beside their chair. I cross over at 80 Hz but the sub has a TC Sounds woofer. It must not have much second and third order distortion!
i don't agree w/all the sub naysayers here. ime, subs will help even full-range speaker systems, if you actively cross over the main speakers. if your ht3's don't see anything under 80hz or so, they will sound better above that level. the improvement will be far greater than any negative influence the x-over itself may add to the picture. plus, you can use tubes on the ht3's, & s/s on the subs. i am sold on the vmps larger subs - hard to beat fro musicality & extension, at the price, imo. but, i strongly recommend a pair. if you yust plan on doing a single sub, don't bother. doug s.
Another point I forgot to pass along...someone mentioned "in-room response". This would be about 24Hz with the HT3's.- Jim
Quote from: doug s. on 14 Dec 2007, 03:45 pmi don't agree w/all the sub naysayers here. ime, subs will help even full-range speaker systems, if you actively cross over the main speakers. if your ht3's don't see anything under 80hz or so, they will sound better above that level. the improvement will be far greater than any negative influence the x-over itself may add to the picture. plus, you can use tubes on the ht3's, & s/s on the subs. i am sold on the vmps larger subs - hard to beat fro musicality & extension, at the price, imo. but, i strongly recommend a pair. if you yust plan on doing a single sub, don't bother. doug s.I tried VMPS Larger subs and HT3's and it didn't work.The VMPS bass didn't match well at all with the HT3's.George
