If I ever need a sub

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 9351 times.

fRsimms

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 10
Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #40 on: 14 Dec 2007, 08:30 pm »
Quote
I think a lot of the reasons why subs are localized or heard is due to their distortion, not their fundamental tones.

That must explain why people can't tell that I have a sub sitting beside their chair.  I cross over at 80 Hz but the sub has a TC Sounds woofer.  It must not have much second and third order distortion!

jsalk

Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #41 on: 14 Dec 2007, 08:45 pm »
Quote
I think a lot of the reasons why subs are localized or heard is due to their distortion, not their fundamental tones.

That must explain why people can't tell that I have a sub sitting beside their chair.  I cross over at 80 Hz but the sub has a TC Sounds woofer.  It must not have much second and third order distortion!

That is true.  TC Sounds distortion levels are very low.  Most people cannot localize fundamental frequencies under about 150Hz and almost no one can under 100Hz.  People often ask if the woofer on the HT3's can be side-mounted.  The answer is no because people can localize signals at the top end of the woofer response - about 250Hz.

- Jim

mfsoa

Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #42 on: 14 Dec 2007, 09:27 pm »
I was in my brother's store listening to his B&W 802Ds in the "best" room there. There was an 18" Velodyne sub directly to the left of the seating position. On one track that starts with acoustic bass panned hard right, we could not tell that the sub was to the left of us, and this was deliberately trying to listen for it, knowing it was right (left) there. We could feel it vibrating when we touched it, so I knew it was playing.

Sorry but I don't know if the 802s were high-passed or not or the low-pass on the sub.

Anyway, my $0.01.

-Mike

zybar

Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #43 on: 15 Dec 2007, 04:03 am »
i don't agree w/all the sub naysayers here.  ime, subs will help even full-range speaker systems, if you actively cross over the main speakers.  if your ht3's don't see anything under 80hz or so, they will sound better above that level.  the improvement will be far greater than any negative influence the x-over itself may add to the picture.  plus, you can use tubes on the ht3's, & s/s on the subs.   8)

i am sold on the vmps larger subs - hard to beat fro musicality & extension, at the price, imo.  but, i strongly recommend a pair.  if you yust plan on doing a single sub, don't bother. 

doug s.

I tried VMPS Larger subs and HT3's and it didn't work.

The VMPS bass didn't match well at all with the HT3's.

George

zybar

Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #44 on: 15 Dec 2007, 04:09 am »
Another point I forgot to pass along...

someone mentioned "in-room response".  This would be about 24Hz with the HT3's.

- Jim

That sounds about right!   :thumb:

Pretty much what I measured with my HT3's with my TacT gear in a previous life.

One last time, repeat after me:

"I don't need no stinkin' subs" with HT3's

George

lonewolfny42

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 16918
  • Speakers....What Speakers ?
Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #45 on: 15 Dec 2007, 07:20 am »
i don't agree w/all the sub naysayers here.  ime, subs will help even full-range speaker systems, if you actively cross over the main speakers.  if your ht3's don't see anything under 80hz or so, they will sound better above that level.  the improvement will be far greater than any negative influence the x-over itself may add to the picture.  plus, you can use tubes on the ht3's, & s/s on the subs.   8)

i am sold on the vmps larger subs - hard to beat fro musicality & extension, at the price, imo.  but, i strongly recommend a pair.  if you yust plan on doing a single sub, don't bother. 

doug s.

I tried VMPS Larger subs and HT3's and it didn't work.

The VMPS bass didn't match well at all with the HT3's.

George
Having been to George's place when he first got his HT3's awhile back....I did not find them lacking anything in bass...they sounded very good. That was the time we compared his 40's plus the subs to the HT3's.... Jim makes a very good speaker. :thumb:

                            Chris

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #46 on: 18 Dec 2007, 02:35 pm »
hi george,

curious as to how you tried the vmps' w/the ht3's.  did you run an outboard x-over, crossing the ht3's as well as the subs?  or run the ht3's full-range?  it wouldn't surprise me that the vmps (or any) subs might not work well w/the ht3's (or other full-range speakers), unless the ht3's are also actively crossed over to the subs...  while the ht3's may not need subs, it would surprise me that vmps subs couldn't integrate well w/them, if active x-over is used...

thanks,

doug s.

i don't agree w/all the sub naysayers here.  ime, subs will help even full-range speaker systems, if you actively cross over the main speakers.  if your ht3's don't see anything under 80hz or so, they will sound better above that level.  the improvement will be far greater than any negative influence the x-over itself may add to the picture.  plus, you can use tubes on the ht3's, & s/s on the subs.   8)

i am sold on the vmps larger subs - hard to beat fro musicality & extension, at the price, imo.  but, i strongly recommend a pair.  if you yust plan on doing a single sub, don't bother. 

doug s.

I tried VMPS Larger subs and HT3's and it didn't work.

The VMPS bass didn't match well at all with the HT3's.

George

zybar

Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #47 on: 18 Dec 2007, 02:54 pm »
hi george,

curious as to how you tried the vmps' w/the ht3's.  did you run an outboard x-over, crossing the ht3's as well as the subs?  or run the ht3's full-range?  it wouldn't surprise me that the vmps (or any) subs might not work well w/the ht3's (or other full-range speakers), unless the ht3's are also actively crossed over to the subs...  while the ht3's may not need subs, it would surprise me that vmps subs couldn't integrate well w/them, if active x-over is used...

thanks,

doug s.


Doug,

I was actively crossing them over using a TacT 2.2x.

George

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #48 on: 18 Dec 2007, 03:43 pm »
thanks, george, for the update.  seems weird to me, but i guess synergy is a strange thing, & it yust proves that one should try before committing to buying...  or, at east  get as much info as possible, from sites such as this!   :wink:

doug s.

AliG

Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #49 on: 19 Dec 2007, 04:23 pm »
Alrite alrite...

This site has convinced me that I don't need no sub for my HT3, I'm going to save my money to buy new camera lens instead...... :lol: :lol: :lol:


audiotom

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 576
  • Ground control to Major Tom
    • for everything music
Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #50 on: 4 Jan 2008, 10:21 pm »
I'm considering buying HT2's and utilizing them with a JL Audio F113 for a second home theatre setup
Arcam AVR350, Pioneer Blu Ray (any suggestions on good and reasonable 5.1 analog interconnects?)

right now the fronts will be B&W Matrix 2's  which have some cabinet colorations
I know the HT2's will improve on that
what would you suggest for freq rollover with HT2's?

I have HT3's in my 2 channel room with Moscode 401hr and Dodd battery pre
no need for low bass reinforcement

I have a 50's Kay Upright bass, so I'm very familiar with double bass low - the HT3's can deliver very resolving low end acoustic


fsimms

Re: If I ever need a sub
« Reply #51 on: 5 Jan 2008, 04:02 pm »
Quote
any suggestions on good and reasonable 5.1 analog interconnects?

As far as standard DVD player recommendations, I recommend any good optical cable for digital.   I am a believer in good cables in general, but not for optical.  I don't have Blue Ray, so I don't know if that would have different  issues.  Also set the DVD player for "bit stream".

This is a good general recommendation for almost all DVD setups.