[JoshK]

For that matter some of the worst pictures I've seen from a HD source have been blu movies.  We just watched Entrapment on Blu last night and it was still grainy in certain scenes (sky mostly).  For that matter think about the first bluray version of Fifth Element.  I didn't buy it because when I saw it in stores it always looked like #%$%#.  Its still all up to the studio and the format doesn't matter.

I agree.  I have seen some stunning PQ from a few blu-rays, Planet Earth being a very good example.  Most of the bluray movies I've rented don't look any better than a standard DVD, but a few do, and I saw a couple of blu-rays that were just awful, because the original was probably awful.  Its just as with anything else and they are using the new format's potential as a sale pitch for you to rebuy movies, or buy more movies on the expensive format when the actual film doesn't justify it.

Just like lot of CDs being compressed to hell wouldn't sound better on a hi-rez format because the source sucked to begin with. They should have to have some measure of quality printed on the box, so someone could decided if buying the movie on an expensive format was worthwhile.

[Ears]

For that matter some of the worst pictures I've seen from a HD source have been blu movies.  We just watched Entrapment on Blu last night and it was still grainy in certain scenes (sky mostly).  For that matter think about the first bluray version of Fifth Element.  I didn't buy it because when I saw it in stores it always looked like #%$%#.  Its still all up to the studio and the format doesn't matter.

I agree.  I have seen some stunning PQ from a few blu-rays, Planet Earth being a very good example.  Most of the bluray movies I've rented don't look any better than a standard DVD, but a few do, and I saw a couple of blu-rays that were just awful, because the original was probably awful.  Its just as with anything else and they are using the new format's potential as a sale pitch for you to rebuy movies, or buy more movies on the expensive format when the actual film doesn't justify it.

Just like lot of CDs being compressed to hell wouldn't sound better on a hi-rez format because the source sucked to begin with. They should have to have some measure of quality printed on the box, so someone could decided if buying the movie on an expensive format was worthwhile.

Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL

It sounds like you like the look of HD video (Planet Earth) over HD film.
Film has grain and any HD version should make that grain more prevalant.

[JDUBS]

Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL

Wow!  EVERY Blu-Ray version is better?  A good rule of thumb, I suppose.

I couldn't say something like that as I haven't seen EVERY Blu-Ray title released vs. its DVD counterpart.

[Ears]

Blu-ray has the superior Bandwidth and storage capacity which translates to better picture and sound quality.  Maybe not with most systems (currently) but anyone with a 100+" screen and/or ability to playback lossless/uncompressed audio are likely to appreciate the differences.  PQ/SQ trumps everything else IMHO.  The technically superior format won out.
   

More storage is not technical superiority.  I have both formats on a 110" screen thru 1080p and you can't tell them apart. 

You mean the very best hd dvd look as good or close enough to the best looking Blu-rays.

Nothing looks better than Apocolypto, Ratatouile or Pirates of the Carribean on my 110" dlp 1080p set up.

The best sounding movies are also on Blu-ray and Paramount said they had no room for lossless on Transformers for hd dvd, so more space and bandwidth make a difference.

[Ears]

Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL

Wow!  EVERY Blu-Ray version is better?  A good rule of thumb, I suppose.

I couldn't say something like that as I haven't seen EVERY Blu-Ray title released vs. its DVD counterpart.

Neither have I but I have seen well over 200 and you will not find a single pro review where it says the Blu-ray version is inferior to the dvd version.

Even the crapiest looking Blu-rays look superior to the dvd version in every single case, and most sound far superior.

[Ears]

Blu-ray has the superior Bandwidth and storage capacity... 

Agreed.

which translates to better picture and sound quality.

lost me there.    This simply doesn't follow.  Necessary but not sufficient condition.  The studios aren't likely doing anything different with the transfer for blu-ray than they would have done with hd-dvd.  I don't think because they have more storage they are necessarily using that potential at the moment.  I think the *can* use it at some point, but I don't think they want to yet, or are even incentivised to do so.  Its like you said, not many will appreciate the difference on their <32" screens, which is their bread and butter. Audio/Video-philes are not their bread and butter.

FWIW, I own a blu-ray player, and don't own a hd-dvd, so don't think my rebuttal is just because I am a fanboy.

When New Line announced it's specs for Shoot em Up, this was the first clue that Warner would go Blu.
The reason is that while the first two New Line releases would fit on a 30gb hd dvd, Shoot em Up would not.

And sure enough, no more New Line releases will be on hd dvd from now on.

[zybar]

Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL

Wow!  EVERY Blu-Ray version is better?  A good rule of thumb, I suppose.

I couldn't say something like that as I haven't seen EVERY Blu-Ray title released vs. its DVD counterpart.

Why wouldn't it be?

It has superior resolution (SD vs. HD) and improved sound (in most cases).

George

[byteme]

Every day I'm more and more happy I got a great deal on that A35 HD-DVD player!   

At least I didn't shell out $1k on a 1st gen HD-DVD player!

Oh well, I'll have to wait for the Sammy dual format player to come out and some down in price.  Unless I upgrade my Denon receiver to something that does HDMI switching I'm going to need 5.1 analog outputs.

For now, I'm enjoying HD-DVD and the deals they have going on software.  I'm not going to replace my whole collection anyway - just the stuff that will really POP in HD.  And will also have to wait until they get their sh!t together with movies like 5th element which got a crap transfer.  It'll be good to have that, LOTR series, Pirates series in HD.

By the way George, that new avatar is just obnoxious...

[JoshK]

Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL

I didn't say it looked inferior to dvd, I said it looked awful, probably because the dvd did too...

It sounds like you like the look of HD video (Planet Earth) over HD film.
Film has grain and any HD version should make that grain more prevalant.

That's a good point and I hadn't thought of that.

Blu-rays I have rented that I thought were no better than mediocre PQ (that I can remember off hand)
28 Days Later (crap PQ)
now I am drawing a blank at which BR's were subpar...my wife noticed it first and then I agreed with her. It was definitely a grainy quality and not superb detail.  Could be the film thing.   I'll have to think about which ones I rented on BR.
Maybe I'll check my blockbuster history to see which I rented on BR.

[Ears]

Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL

I didn't say it looked inferior to dvd, I said it looked awful, probably because the dvd did too...

It sounds like you like the look of HD video (Planet Earth) over HD film.
Film has grain and any HD version should make that grain more prevalant.

That's a good point and I hadn't thought of that.

Blu-rays I have rented that I thought were no better than mediocre PQ (that I can remember off hand)
28 Days Later (crap PQ)
now I am drawing a blank at which BR's were subpar...my wife noticed it first and then I agreed with her. It was definitely a grainy quality and not superb detail.  Could be the film thing.   I'll have to think about which ones I rented on BR.
Maybe I'll check my blockbuster history to see which I rented on BR.

Yep, 28 days later was supposed to look like it was filmed with an everyday camcorder, and HD can only improve so much on that one.
28 weeks later however looks pretty good.

[Ears]

Every day I'm more and more happy I got a great deal on that A35 HD-DVD player!   

At least I didn't shell out $1k on a 1st gen HD-DVD player!

Oh well, I'll have to wait for the Sammy dual format player to come out and some down in price.  Unless I upgrade my Denon receiver to something that does HDMI switching I'm going to need 5.1 analog outputs.

For now, I'm enjoying HD-DVD and the deals they have going on software.  I'm not going to replace my whole collection anyway - just the stuff that will really POP in HD.  And will also have to wait until they get their sh!t together with movies like 5th element which got a crap transfer.  It'll be good to have that, LOTR series, Pirates series in HD.

By the way George, that new avatar is just obnoxious...

The original Fith Element Blu-ray release looked better than the superbit  dvd played back on a 2k dvd player despite being rushed out to market with a so-so transfer.
The re-mastered Fith Element looks much better on Blu, and was swapped out for free to any buyers of the original release.

[Ears]

It' pretty much already over in Australia, Japan and Europe with Blu considered the winner.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,23095581-5014239,00.html

It's only a matter of time before the last two hold outs for hd dvd studios turn Blu with software sales ratios in the mid eightys for Blu in the U.S.

Amazon actually has a warning in it's Warner hd dvd listings saying Warner has gone Blu.

[oscar]

There's very few decent points of comparison between the two formats.  Warner's has been releasing the same video encodes on both formats so you would expect them to appear the same.

I have a sampling of both formats and to my eyes, the more recent releases on 50G discs have had consistently better PQ than the PQ on 25G and 30G disks.  PQ can look very good on the smaller disks but not always consistent (e.g. "King Kong"' and "Troy" alternate between superb PQ and rather "soft" DVDesqe-quality PQ). I suspect this had to do with limited storage capacity driving lower video bitrates on the "less important" scenes.  I'll admit it's only a lowly 720p FP w/ 110" screen. YMMV.

The video/audio bandwidth limitation is far more obvious with the relative lack of lossless/uncompressed audio tracks on HD DVD releases.  How else to explain the absence of lossless audio tracks with "Transformers",  "King Kong"  and the vast majority (>80%) of HD DVD releases ? Contrast that with the presence of lossless/uncompressed audio tracks on almost 100% of the Sony, Fox, and Disney Blu-ray releases.   PCM and TrueHD soundtracks have been consistently "cleaner", more dynamic, better detailing and separation, then typical lossy DD+, DD, or DTS core soundtracks (I've yet to hear DTS HD MA; I'll need a newer player for that.)

More storage is not technical superiority.  I have both formats on a 110" screen thru 1080p and you can't tell them apart. 

[samplesj]

Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL

Wow!  EVERY Blu-Ray version is better?  A good rule of thumb, I suppose.

I couldn't say something like that as I haven't seen EVERY Blu-Ray title released vs. its DVD counterpart.

Please do not manually edit the quote tags unless you make sure to do it right.  The above quote is NOT mine.  That above quote is from our resident fanboy.  However in this case while I actually wouldn't say every one is better, I'd be really suprised if we found any that weren't.

[samplesj]

It sounds like you like the look of HD video (Planet Earth) over HD film.
Film has grain and any HD version should make that grain more prevalant.

Grain makes the picture look like ....

How many of these movies with grain were shot on real film and what we are seeing is that film grain vs just not enough bandwidth on the transfer.  It all still comes down to the studio more than the tech.

It is interesting you used Apocalypto as a example of high picture quality.  I'd agree that certain shots were gorgeous, but there were some REALLY grainy scenes too.

[Woodsea]

Cut and Pasted-
NPD: Sky Isn't Falling for HD-DVD, Blu-ray Isn't Champ Yet
01/24/08

Sales data for HD-DVD and Blu-ray players and movies has been misconstrued lately by various outlets, with reports implying that HD-DVD sales have fallen at an amazing pace while Blu-ray sales have blasted through the roof.

Not so fast, says the NPD Group.

While select articles have implied that HD-DVD as a format is doomed and the sky is falling for the format's supporters, the NPD Group this afternoon reinforced that sales results from a single week do not necessarily indicate a trend, and that the week in question had several intriguing variables that have gone unreported.

The NPD Group attempted to quiet the storm of online scuttlebutt with the following statement:

"As you may have seen, there are attempts being made to portray NPD's weekly sales tracking figures for next generation DVD as a trend. We want to remind you and make clear that it is not accurate to make long term assumptions based on one week of sales -- a cautionary point that NPD has made as well.

"The facts are that during the week that is being singled out, both Blu-ray disc players and software were being given away for free with the purchase of 1080p TVs. It is also important to note that the instant rebate promotions that had previously netted Toshiba's players' MSRPs to $199 and $249 had actually ended on Jan. 5th -- causing an increase in HD DVD's MSRP back to $299 and $399 during that same week. Since Toshiba's retail price move on Jan. 13th to $149 / $199 -- Toshiba is seeing very positive sales trends at retail. This reinforces the fact that price is a significant driver of sales.

"Toshiba's HD DVD players represent a significant value to the consumer and the marketing campaign that just began is proving effective."

Just to throw some gas on the fire  aa  Seriously, just food for thought.  With the new 3mm http://gizmodo.com/348864/sony-reduces-blu+ray-lasers-size-and-costBR from Sony I am just as happy as long as I can retrofit into my Mac lappy

[Ears]

Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competiters to be doing the same soon.

http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17

This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.

[Philistine]

Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competitors to be doing the same soon.

http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17

This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.

"Pillow fight" is a good description of the kindergarten fight between Blu-ray and HD-DVD (which I think you mean, not DVD). 
With the growth of non-physical media in the audio sector: ipod/squeezebox etc, the physical media paradigm that has already happened here will quickly spread to video. 

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/18/jobs_on_bluray_hddvd/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034

If the two format camps had got their act together, and developed a unified standard, they may have stood a chance.  Too late - both formats have lost.

[Ears]

Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competitors to be doing the same soon.

http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17

This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.

"Pillow fight" is a good description of the kindergarten fight between Blu-ray and HD-DVD (which I think you mean, not DVD). 
With the growth of non-physical media in the audio sector: ipod/squeezebox etc, the physical media paradigm that has already happened here will quickly spread to video. 

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/18/jobs_on_bluray_hddvd/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034

If the two format camps had got their act together, and developed a unified standard, they may have stood a chance.  Too late - both formats have lost.

I just don't see people wanting to watch movies on some tiny screen, or low bit rate 720p HD light. with dvd audio at best.
In the U.S., bigger is king when it comes to movies as the constantly sold out IMAX showings and ever increasing display size averages prove beyond a doubt.

In 09, many more people will have hdtv's as compared to now.
hd dvd's pending death will help with Blu-ray being the only viable HDM format to go along with those new hdtv displays, and when those new owners see the difference between Blu-ray and dvd, a lot of them will opt for Blu-ray which will continue to come down in price just like dvd did.

[Philistine]

Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competitors to be doing the same soon.

http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17

This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.

"Pillow fight" is a good description of the kindergarten fight between Blu-ray and HD-DVD (which I think you mean, not DVD). 
With the growth of non-physical media in the audio sector: ipod/squeezebox etc, the physical media paradigm that has already happened here will quickly spread to video. 

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/18/jobs_on_bluray_hddvd/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034

If the two format camps had got their act together, and developed a unified standard, they may have stood a chance.  Too late - both formats have lost.

I just don't see people wanting to watch movies on some tiny screen, or low bit rate 720p HD light. with dvd audio at best.
In the U.S., bigger is king when it comes to movies as the constantly sold out IMAX showings and ever increasing display size averages prove beyond a doubt.

In 09, many more people will have hdtv's as compared to now.
hd dvd's pending death will help with Blu-ray being the only viable HDM format to go along with those new hdtv displays, and when those new owners see the difference between Blu-ray and dvd, a lot of them will opt for Blu-ray which will continue to come down in price just like dvd did.

Your choice of analogy, as with pillow fight, is again pretty accurate.
IMAX is niche 'product' that has a small market share, just like Blu-Ray/DVD.

The old NTSC standard is a joke all around the world, consequently the gap between NTSC and 720p/1080i/1080p is huge. The introduction of  standard DVD, native format or upconverted, is more than enough for the majority of the US market.  They'll just get their HD content from cable or satellite providers, with Bose surround sound and hard drive based recorders built into their equipment. 
Last year I was over in Europe and saw high def demonstrations: with smaller screen sizes and the superior PAL system, the extra performance gap with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD exists but it is nowhere near as dramatic and has less interest/value to motivate consumers to embrace the change.

RIP High Def media.